Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by chip75

It would be nice if we had some kind of extended edition for each film of the PT. They spent a lot of time finishing the deleted scenes for TPM, AotC and RotS (although they didn't finish all of those). I'm not sure what would happen to the pacing if it would slow things down too much but you're going to be at home sitting down anyways....

I think TPM is a bit too long for what it is. Unless they have some extra scenes that take place after Qui-Gon's funeral and when Anakin starts his training...

I definitely wouldn't mind an extended cut of ROTS. As long as GL includes the original... Which we know he won't (LOL).

For all those who don't look on the PT favorably (well, for everyone, but the review talks about the bad mostly), I recommend seeing this hilarious clip... I found it on Amazon while reading the OT/UOT debates. I'm seeing it now and honestly saying, "Wow... That's true," to things like there being no cohesive plot or characters to relate to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

That one is for TPM, but AOTC is on the channel somewhere.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

That one is for TPM, but AOTC is on the channel somewhere.

I've watched most of Red Letter Media's Star Wars and Star Trek reviews I quite enjoy them. They have good points and go after the films on a film theory level which I appreciate. It's not just some guy saying they're crap (which I don't think they are I think there's a bit of magic in them) I'm not too keen on his little diversions though lol....

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by chip75

I've watched most of Red Letter Media's Star Wars and Star Trek reviews I quite enjoy them. They have good points and go after the films on a film theory level which I appreciate. It's not just some guy saying they're crap (which I don't think they are I think there's a bit of magic in them) I'm not too keen on his little diversions though lol....

Well, the scenes of him doing stuff are odd and a waste of time but I guess it's YT so gotta make it stand out, right? lol...

His scenes with kids sitting in front of the TV watching certain parts of the film had me laughing my ass off. But all 7 parts are awesome.

"What's wrong with your faaace?!"

Attack of the Clones review - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBhi...eature=related

[bodybuilder]

This is gonna be a great set. I'm thinking of picking up the animated film and tv series on blu to get me pumped up for it.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by chip75

I've watched most of Red Letter Media's Star Wars and Star Trek reviews I quite enjoy them. They have good points and go after the films on a film theory level which I appreciate. It's not just some guy saying they're crap (which I don't think they are I think there's a bit of magic in them) I'm not too keen on his little diversions though lol....

I love the diversions myself, but I always thought he ought to have an edited cut of the reviews without them, and spread the reviews to a wider audience. Great stuff, though-- I'm a big fan. Now that he's done all three Star Wars prequels I'd like to see him tackle Indy IV next (even though I kind of liked it on at least some levels).

As for Anakin's ghost (which seems to have circled back as the current argument ), from the arguments I've read, I'd say that both versions make sense and can be argued. I look it at this way: The original versions are self-contained, and represent a time without the prequels. This would have Sebastian Shaw appear at the end, who is clearly the man we see under the mask.
The current Special Editions alter the movies to better fit with the prequels (shouldn't if have been the other way around?), so we have Hayden appear at the end to come full circle with the "first trilogy," seeing as Lucas says they are meant in the future to be watched as I-VI. I guess that works better thematically if you're watching the films in that order.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Obi-Wan truly believed Anakin died when he became Vader, but it doesn't justify Hayden being seen as a force ghost because at that point we know that Obi-Wan was wrong about Anakin being dead. Luke showed us that he was still there, behind the mask somewhere.

I agree. Besides Jedi Rocks, this was the other just simply unnecessary addition meant to make it easier for children to understand (i.e. when watched all the way through, they'd more easily recognize Hayden than Sebastian).

There is no logic to it, as both Obi-wan and Yoda appeared the same as just as they died. All this talk of "Anakin died on Mustafar" is simply not true. Anakin Skywalker turned to the Dark Side, and was redeemed in the end when he chose the Light Side. The state of the mechanics of his body were irrelevant, Darth Vader was simply a professional pseudonym. To make a comparison to real-world religions, it's just like when a Nun takes on a "Sister Mary Clarance" name, or a superhero comparison - Batman is always Bruce Wayne, Batman is an outfit he puts on and a role he plays.

Now, you could debate the outfit and that he's not cut up - that's dramatic license. It's a spiritual representation of himself, and when he died, he died as Luke's father, not a snotty teenager. So he died how he felt - an old man proud of his son, and that's what we saw reflected in his spiritual manifestation.

One could endlessly debate preference on that issue, though, but I think what bothers people is that 1) Hayden's Anakin (and Anakin throughout the PT) is probably one of the least-likable characters in the films, even though we are supposed to (one of the things that makes the Clone Wars good is that Matt Lanter is a much better actor and even his voice is much more likable), and 2) it's just a crappy thing to do to Sebastian Shaw.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the things revisited in the Blu's. It makes no logical sense, and he's selling these Blu's to adults, not releasing them in theaters to drive kiddos in or on DVDs to promote the current theatrical toys to kids.

It's funny, but the relative failure of the Clone Wars animated movie in the theaters seemed to turn the tide at Lucasfilm - he's been banking on kids buying toys for decades now, but I think he finally realized that we (the adult fans of Star Wars) are the ones spending the big bucks these days on his products, and it's in his best financial interest to cater to us a bit more. Hence his dropping of the "workprint" language for "classic", as just one example.

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

There is no logic to it, as both Obi-wan and Yoda appeared the same as just as they died. All this talk of "Anakin died on Mustafar" is simply not true.

Yeah, sorta...but,

Luke: Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.
Obi-Wan: Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and *became* Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by STARKILLER--1138

Yeah, sorta...but,

Luke: Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.
Obi-Wan: Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and *became* Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view.

Right, from a certain point of view. Obi-wan is explaining to a child how their parent almost destroyed the universe, and was telling it in the most palatable way. That's what he is getting at here, that it could be viewed as Anakin "became" Darth Vader. It's a metaphor that was enforced by a costume and a secret identity (I don't think the average Imperial trooper knew that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker, even if they knew who Anakin Skywalker is - we have to remember that most of these people were not "famous" within the Star Wars universe; some were known, but many were not and most of the events going on were unknown to the public before or after).

Anakin Skywalker was a human, who was deformed and disabled, and had many mechanical accoutrement added to enable him mobility and maintain his body alive. Anakin's body. Just like a religious order renaming you, or a Pop Star taking on a new name, he was called Darth Vader. Shawn Corey Carter is still alive, he didn't die just because we now call him Jay-Z.

Anakin "becoming" Darth Vader wasn't literal, is the point I am getting at. He still had his memories (which is why he "turned", he thought he killed Padme), knew his life, and though he may have been psychologically disturbed by all of that - he was still Anakin Skywalker. We still call Palpatine by his name, not Darth Sidious, and this is really no different except for in this case his true identity was held from the public.

[Beast]

All the logic needed exists in the films, including the concept of luminous beings.

As has been noted multiple times, if Anakin's ghost is no longer restrained by by the "Crude Matter" of his flesh upon becoming "A Luminous Being", why should he be restrained to appearing in a form he doesn't even recognize as himself. Not to mention that one Obi-Wan and Yoda would.

It makes tons of sense, and is the reason why the change was made.... not so kiddies would understand it better. Because Anakin appearing as the Ghost of Humpty Dumpty made no sense in the context of the film, and the information established in the universe by Obi-Wan and Yoda.

[deafeddie]

It made no sense to show Anakin as a young guy. If I was Luke, I would have been like who the hell is that? My father was a crusty feeble old man. what's going on here?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by deafeddie

It made no sense to show Anakin as a young guy. If I was Luke, I would have been like who the hell is that? My father was a crusty feeble old man. what's going on here?

C'mon, Luke was a dumb blonde from the ass end of space... but he's not that stupid.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by deafeddie

It made no sense to show Anakin as a young guy. If I was Luke, I would have been like who the hell is that? My father was a crusty feeble old man. what's going on here?

Exactly.

Anakin Skywalker's life ended as a proud father of his son, which is where he would have been spiritually.

Yoda and Obi-wan, as well as Anakin himself, would have no need of a visual reference. They are sprits, LOL.

The spirits appeared to Luke, and that's how Luke would have known him - as his self as he lay dying in his arms. It was an idealized version of what "light side" Anakin would appear as, but as the spirits were not just there hanging out for the party, but appearing specifically to Luke, their appearance would be tailored to him and his understanding.

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by Beast

All the logic needed exists in the films.

All of the films have the logic necessary to understand them. The logic might even be sound, but that doesn't mean they are presented in a provocative fashion. My criticisms with the films from Return of the Jedi to Revenge of the Sith are most with the writing (in terms of presentation mostly) the acting, and a lot of the fluff, such as the overbearing comedic site gags from TPM and AOTC.

I also have a hard time finding any of the characters in the prequels, besides maybe a few, to be charismatic, which is what I enjoyed most from the original film.

The stories themselves are simple and easy to follow.

To add a bit of two cents on the whole "it is his vision" deal. I agree that one should respect that it is the artist's vision, but that shouldn't mean one can't criticize it. Art takes two to tango. There is the artists' intentions with the piece and there is what you take from it. I think that it is foolish for an artist to take bad criticism to heart, but I also think it is perfectly fine for you to pick and choice what available version of Star Wars there is to offer. Lucas might consider the original 1977 film to be a "workprint" cut, but for everyone else up until January 1997, it was the real deal. If he wants to release it, FINE! He doesn't, Oh well! I will live! But what is bothering me is the most is the perception that it is, for some reason, a sin to want both versions available to the public, with nearly equal quality, and to let the audience decide which version they want to watch.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

But what is bothering me is the most is the perception that it is, for some reason, a sin to want both versions available to the public, with nearly equal quality, and to let the audience decide which version they want to watch.

Exactly.

Not to mention that the following quote was his also-

"In the future it will become easier for old negatives to become lost and be 'replaced' by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten." -George Lucas

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Exactly.

Not to mention that the following quote was his also-

"In the future it will become easier for old negatives to become lost and be 'replaced' by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten." -George Lucas

Love how people misuse that quote out of context. Again, that was in regard to OTHER PEOPLE altering films that they didn't create.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Beast

Love how people misuse that quote out of context. Again, that was in regard to OTHER PEOPLE altering films that they didn't create.

So it can't apply to him?

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

So it can't apply to him?

It is just further evidence that Lucas says one thing and does another. He is a talented man, but a lot of people think he can do no wrong and will make up excuses for him. Its just how it is, ya know? Nothing wrong with it, just reality. Gotta love the Star Wars fans for it. Devoted.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

So it can't apply to him?

Yeah, this argument will just go back and forth because it is difficult for some to understand the difference between context and meaning.

Reasonable people interpret it correctly, as you did.

Yes, the reason they were speaking was due to people making decisions after the death of the creator.

However, he also spoke about the "cultural significance" which is the key phrase. Star Wars was a cultural landmark in a dozen ways, it also says a great deal about the time in which it was made, and the state of filmmaking in 1977.

When the only versions available cover up that version, it becomes a commodity as opposed to a cultural document which is what film is becoming for our period of history.

As you state, ideally the best would be to have both available. If both were available, I'd probably watch the SE more often (perhaps not for Star Wars, but for the other two).

Thankfully, Lucas seems to be coming 'round - he no longer calls them "workprint" versions, but "classic" versions. I really do believe we'll see them attached as "bonuses" to the 3-D versions. It's in the best interest of his legacy, and I hope he's starting to get that. Just like his achievement in THX-1138 is essentially meaningless at the moment as he only has released a painted-over CGI version he did in his 50's as opposed to the groundbreaking film it was when he made it in his 20's. He can change anything he wants, but not having both versions available simply makes his earlier work less impressive.

[IndefinentBlu]

This has been confirmed:
http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/s...set_136125.asp

[Beast]

Originally Posted by indefinentnj

This has been confirmed:
http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/s...set_136125.asp

Well, since it was one disc... that much was obvious. Plus Indiana Jones had no Digital Copy either.