Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[JoshKelhoffer]

I must say, I really prefer that slick, yet retro Phantom Menace logo to those from the theatrical posters and dvd cover arts. It would be cool to see those for the upcoming Blu Rays. Doubt it though.

It would also be nice to see the original (or special edition) theatrical posters used instead of the lackluster, copy & paste cover arts we've seen for the DVDs.

Not that the cover or logos really matter in the long run.

[moosehas spoken]

How long do you guys think it will be until we see some pictures of the packaging for this? I'm excited for that.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by STARKILLER--1138

Nice! Throw up some pics if you can. Would love to see that.

Most of my collectibles are in bins right now unfortunatly. I hope to get things arranged at some point.

[fgomike]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

That one looks kind of hard to put together.

I can't remember where I saw it at, but someone had created "The Force" action figure and it was an empty box.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by fgomike

I can't remember where I saw it at, but someone had created "The Force" action figure and it was an empty box.

Kind of like those cloaked Predator action figures. 'Just use your imagination son....'

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

I'm waiting eagerly for the Episode 1 Vintage Collection Figures, which should be out in 2012.



Episode I: The Phantom Menace
__ VC##: Aurra Sing
__ VC##: Battle Droids
__ VC##: Darth Maul
__ VC##: Jar Jar Binks
__ VC##: Qui-Gon Jinn
__ VC##: Ratts Tyerell & Pit Droid

Is that an actual. official mock-up of what the packaging for the retro-looking Phantom Menace packaging will look like, or is that something fan made?

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Is that an actual. official mock-up of what the packaging for the retro-looking Phantom Menace packaging will look like, or is that something fan made?

I'm not entirely sure. I grabbed it and the checklist for the Phantom Menace wave from Rebelscum.

I think it's just a mock-up, since the card art usually uses film stills. Looks like they used the upcoming Maul card art that StarWars.Com revealed the other day and slapped it on a mocked up Phantom Menace Vintage card. But I'm sure the final result will be similar.

[Beast]

Here's a pic of the Attack Of The Clones wave that just came out recently though.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by Beast

Here's a pic of the Attack Of The Clones wave that just came out recently though.

Nice, but I have no more room for Star Wars figures on my desk. That Jango is looking awfully sweet though, could put him right next to the Empire reissue Boba Fett I swooped on.

[Jacobss]

Since people complained that this thread does not contain much about technical aspect of the SW movies, I would like to continue the talk about the resolution. I think it's more interesting than posting pictures of Star Wars toys for little kids.

Earlier someone said, that Lucas made big mistake shooting Episode 2 and 3 in 1080p and that others films can be made in 4K or 8K for future releases. Well, it's not entirely truth. It is not so black and white as people might think. First of all, Phantom Menace was shoot on 35mm film tape, that is the truth. But, almost all FX (special effects) were made on a computer with 2K scan. So, the highest resolution of Phantom Menace available is 2K. In order to do higher scans, you have to scan the original negative (without FX, so with all bluescreens etc.) in 4K or 8K. Then you have to do all FX again. And here comes the best - considering that almost every shot in this movie contain digital effect (only one scene in whole movie is without it) you have to do almost the whole film from scratch. It's the next stupid thing made by Mr. Lucas.

Episode 2 and 3 were already discussed. They were shot only in 1080p, so forget even about 2K. That's right, even 2K, because 2K is higher than 1080p. It contains 6% more "details". Again, congratulations to Mr. Lucas.

As for episodes 4, 5 and 6 - Special Edition from 97 is the same story as Phanom Menace. All CGI were only done in 2K so nothing more you can do. Version from 04 is even more laughable, because all FX (including beatiful Hayden Christensen face) were done in 1080p. Thats why the highest scans from Original Trilogy are only 1080p.

IRONICALLY the only Star Wars movies, which are capable of 4K or 8K is the ORIGINAL UNALTERED TRILOGY from 77-83. That's right, because they do not contain any digital effects. So, I would like again congratulate Mr. Lucas for hating the technical aspect of the movies, which are best prepared from all his SW movies for future releases. No doubt some day we will get 4K movies at home. Then Lucas will have to do all FX from scratch what would be almost impossible and cost milions of dollars.

[Beast]

Yeah, the Jango is sweet. Glad they did a good figure of him with the Poncho.

Hoping the Jar Jar figure for next year is the best figure ever. The last E1 one was ages ago. Though the Clone Wars figure was decent.

And hopefully one day they'll do his two Episode 2 costumes. They did one, but it was in an action pose.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Jacobss

Then you have to do all FX again. And here comes the best - considering that almost every shot in this movie contain digital effect (only one scene in whole movie is without it) you have to do almost the whole film from scratch. It's the next stupid thing made by Mr. Lucas.

Which they'll be doing anyway for the 3-D Conversion Process. So no biggie.

Episode 2 and 3 were already discussed. They were shot only in 1080p, so forget even about 2K. That's right, even 2K, because 2K is higher than 1080p. It contains 6% more "details". Again, congratulations to Mr. Lucas.

Wow 6%. Not something worth having a tizzy over. Especially with the 3-D Conversions coming.

As for episodes 4, 5 and 6 - Special Edition from 97 is the same story as Phanom Menace. All CGI were only done in 2K so nothing more you can do. Version from 04 is even more laughable, because all FX (including beatiful Hayden Christensen face) were done in 1080p. Thats why the highest scans from Original Trilogy are only 1080p.

And again, the 3-D Conversion process will likely address all these issues.
But regardless, the human eye can't detect much of a difference beyond 1080p.

IRONICALLY the only Star Wars movies, which are capable of 4K or 8K is the ORIGINAL UNALTERED TRILOGY from 77-83. That's right, because they do not contain any digital effects. So, I would like again congratulate Mr. Lucas for hating the technical aspect of the movies, which are best prepared from all his SW movies for future releases. No doubt some day we will get 4K movies at home. Then Lucas will have to do all FX from scratch what would be almost impossible and cost milions of dollars.

By the way, that's not really irony. Also, why would he have to redo them? Even if one day we do get 4K movie presentations at home, it's not like the films will look terrible. Considering even upconverting the current DVDs through a PS3 looks fantastic. One just has to deal with the evolution of technology, and the possibility that it'll expose the flaws of some movies. The same is true of current technology.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Jacobss

Since people complained that this thread does not contain much about technical aspect of the SW movies, I would like to continue the talk about the resolution. I think it's more interesting than posting pictures of Star Wars toys for little kids.

Earlier someone said, that Lucas made big mistake shooting Episode 2 and 3 in 1080p and that others films can be made in 4K or 8K for future releases. Well, it's not entirely truth. It is not so black and white as people might think. First of all, Phantom Menace was shoot on 35mm film tape, that is the truth. But, almost all FX (special effects) were made on a computer with 2K scan. So, the highest resolution of Phantom Menace available is 2K. In order to do higher scans, you have to scan the original negative (without FX, so with all bluescreens etc.) in 4K or 8K. Then you have to do all FX again. And here comes the best - considering that almost every shot in this movie contain digital effect (only one scene in whole movie is without it) you have to do almost the whole film from scratch. It's the next stupid thing made by Mr. Lucas.

Episode 2 and 3 were already discussed. They were shot only in 1080p, so forget even about 2K. That's right, even 2K, because 2K is higher than 1080p. It contains 6% more "details". Again, congratulations to Mr. Lucas.

As for episodes 4, 5 and 6 - Special Edition from 97 is the same story as Phanom Menace. All CGI were only done in 2K so nothing more you can do. Version from 04 is even more laughable, because all FX (including beatiful Hayden Christensen face) were done in 1080p. Thats why the highest scans from Original Trilogy are only 1080p.

IRONICALLY the only Star Wars movies, which are capable of 4K or 8K is the ORIGINAL UNALTERED TRILOGY from 77-83. That's right, because they do not contain any digital effects. So, I would like again congratulate Mr. Lucas for hating the technical aspect of the movies, which are best prepared from all his SW movies for future releases. No doubt some day we will get 4K movies at home. Then Lucas will have to do all FX from scratch what would be almost impossible and cost milions of dollars.

Yes, Clones and Sith are fixed at 1080p. Forever. But what about the modern film finished on a DI? While 4K scanning is becoming more popular, the actual post-production is still mostly done at 2K, which is only a 50% improvement over 1080p in terms of pixel numbers (2048x1556). I'm fully aware that such films do have actual camera negative or the raw 4K scans (if applicable) to go back to should they ever be needed, while all Lucas has is his ageing 1080p files. Forever. So I'll give you that one.

But then I'll take it back, because a complete 4K workflow for something like LOTR (scanned and finished at 2K using what is now 10-year-old tech) would surely be a hugely expensive undertaking? It'd need to be scanned, edited and graded from scratch, ditto for the CG visual effects. The studios are balking at the costs of uprezzing certain TV shows to HD, let alone rejigging existing 2K feature films to 4K resolution. You can either keep drinking the anti-Lucas Kool-Aid, or you can realise that it's not just Lucas' problem.

So while Lucas has indeed restricted the future video quality of Clones and Sith, his actions have once again been strangely prescient, with a final resolution of 6%-better-than-HD becoming the norm for most theatrical digital projection systems.

As for the OT looking far better in HD (or even a higher quality format), they should do but there are significant reasons as to why they may not. Some of the stock that Star Wars was shot on has proved to be very problematic, and the sheer amount of opticals in each film means a reduction in quality too (Lowry mentioned that they dialled down the grain for the effects shots on the 2004 restoration). The improvements in both film stock and compositing across the three films is plainly obvious on DVD, with Jedi easily looking the best of the bunch. This should be clearly apparent on the Blu-ray versions as well.

So while it's oh-so-fashionable to have a go at Lucas about, well, anything, the HD origination of Clones and Sith doesn't keep me awake at night.

[tilapiah6]

Forgive me for asking the obvious, but is Blu-ray not 1080p? Won't all of the films look amazing on Blu-ray because they were literally made for that exact resolution (the digital shots, and eps 2 and 3)?

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes, Clones and Sith are fixed at 1080p. Forever. But what about the modern film finished on a DI? While 4K scanning is becoming more popular, the actual post-production is still mostly done at 2K, which is just a shade above 1080p in terms of numbers (2048x1080). I'm fully aware that such films do have actual camera negative or the raw 4K scans (if applicable) to go back to should they ever be needed, while all Lucas has is his ageing 1080p files. Forever. So I'll give you that one.

But then I'll take it back, because a complete 4K workflow for something like LOTR (scanned and finished at 2K using what is now 10-year-old tech) would surely be a hugely expensive undertaking? It'd need to be scanned, edited and graded from scratch, ditto for the CG visual effects. The studios are balking at the costs of uprezzing certain TV shows to HD, let alone rejigging existing 2K feature films to 4K resolution.

So while Lucas has indeed restricted the future video quality of Clones and Sith, his actions have once again been strangely prescient, with a final resolution of 6%-better-than-HD becoming the norm for digitally finished movies (shot on film or otherwise). You can either keep drinking the anti-Lucas Kool-Aid, or you can realise that it's not just Lucas' problem.

As for the OT looking far better in HD (or even a higher quality format), they should do but there are significant reasons as to why they may not. Some of the stock that Star Wars was shot on has proved to be very problematic, and the sheer amount of opticals in each film means a reduction in quality too (Lowry mentioned that they dialled down the grain for the effects shots on the 2004 restoration). The improvements in both film stock and compositing across the three films is plainly obvious on DVD, with Jedi easily looking the best of the bunch. This should be clearly apparent on the Blu-ray versions as well.

So while it's oh-so-fashionable to have a go at Lucas about, well, anything, the HD origination of Clones and Sith doesn't keep me awake at night.

No one is having a go at Lucas. As someone who was discussing this earlier, thats all it was, a discussion. Just because someone points out a flaw in the filmakers work doesn't mean they are having a go. And while yes to rescan the negative of other films, such as LOTR, is expensive they still have the option if they want to. Lucas does not with Episodes 2&3. So that argument is moot. I'd rather have it and never need it, than not have it and need it.

[Geoff D]

No one is having a go at Lucas? You coulda fooled me, bub.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by tilapiah6

Forgive me for asking the obvious, but is Blu-ray not 1080p? Won't all of the films look amazing on Blu-ray because they were literally made for that exact resolution (the digital shots, and eps 2 and 3)?

Film scanned in a higher resolution and then downrezzed to HD simply looks better. Plus, as the film scanners get better and better, you can get more out of film. With digital, you're basically stuck with one resolution.

[Jacobss]

Geoff D - I'm not having "a go" at Lucas. I just criticize him. I know that much more filmmakers are doing the same, but this topic is SW related so I only mentioned Lucas. As for now, 2K in Cinemas is ok, but we will see in 5 years. There are already cinemas with digital 4K projectors for 2D movies. With the rest what you said, I can only agree. I also forgot about the film stock problem. It was already in trouble in 97. That's why there was made a restoration back then.

Beast - You are wrong. They are not doing Phantom Menace from scratch for the 3D release. They will use the current 2K master with digital Yoda for that. As I said it will be almost impossible and to expensive to do it from scratch. Human eye can see a difference from 1080p to 2K or 4K - you just need a bigger screen. It's the same story as with 720p and 1080p. And yes, it's irony because after all this talk how special edition is technically better than unaltered trilogy, it is still capable of higher resolution.

As for upscaling - I hope you are not serious. Because you can say the same about BD - what's the point of it? We should better stay with DVD and upscale it. Of course it's bullshit.

tilapiah6 - We are talking about future releases - Blu rays will be alright.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Jacobss

Phantom Menace was shoot on 35mm film tape

There's no such thing as "35mm film tape" except for the sticky tape that's used to hold the film down. But it is correct that even though most people probably think that Phantom Menace was shot digitally, it was actually shot on 35mm film, although it was mostly composited digitally.

Episodes II and III were shot digitally using HDCAM.

So if (and it's a big if) they wanted to reprocess all the effects shots, they could in theory do a 4K or 8K high resolution scan of Episode I, but not II or III.

So while one could argue that Lucas "blew it" by using a transient technology on II and III, it's not much different than those filmmakers who choose to work in Super Panavision or Techniscope where the actual film area used is only 63% that of anamorphic Panavision and results in tremendous grain. (And for the record, I don't mind film grain, but I do mind golfball sized grain.)

[frogmort]

Maybe I'm getting old, and set in my ways, but if all 6 movies look great in 1080p, then that's good enough for me.