Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[chip75]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

I wonder what changes we'll see by the time those are released. Maybe Greedo will shoot at us instead!

Originally Posted by Vertigo2010

Funniest thing I've read all week...thanks man!

He'd miss though and knock out one of our surround sound speakers. Think of the feedback....

[octagon]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

If you are a betting man, I am willing to bet you $1000 it kicks ass at the box office. The only people who love watching the PT more than the gushers are the bashers.

I imagine it will make a lot of money but I don't see any records falling. It hasn't really been that long since the last one was in theaters and 3d blockbusters won't be commonplace but they won't be rare either.

Feb is a good move for the first one, though. Lead off in a weak month and see if/how it builds. The only downside is my nephew turns 11 next Feb. If the stars misalign in just the wrong way I might actually get roped into this.

Well, maybe it won't be too bad. Maybe we'll find out those 3D glasses can prevent headaches too.

[shelldweller]

3D or not i really look forward to see "the Phantom Menace" in theaters again...
Hope some issues like the Yoda-puppet will be fixed but I´ll enjoy it anyway!

The release date is a little strange since it´s less than half a year after the blu-ray release.

[Geoff D]

I forgot about the Yoda CG replacement for Phantom Menace. He really does look terrific in Sith, not so much in Clones. In true ass-backwards Lucas fashion the CG Yoda will look better in the first movie than in the second!

As for Sifo-Dyas, it's more Lucas flip-flopping. He said that the mystery would be revealed in Episode III, but when Sith came and went without a hint of an explanation he simply says "it was there all along if you were paying attention" in the DVD commentary.

Sure, Jango mentions being recruited by Tyranus, who is revealed to be Dooku, who surely took the step of erasing Kamino from the archives before he left the Jedi Order. It's that simple, but then it had to be because Lucas left himself no time to come up with anything else. It's a shame because that whole conspiracy arc could've been started a lot earlier and helped with that sense of continuity which I feel is sorely lacking from the prequels.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I forgot about the Yoda CG replacement for Phantom Menace. He really does look terrific in Sith, not so much in Clones. In true ass-backwards Lucas fashion the CG Yoda will look better in the first movie than in the second!

As for Sifo-Dyas, it's more Lucas flip-flopping. He said that the mystery would be revealed in Episode III, but when Sith came and went without a hint of an explanation he simply says "it was there all along if you were paying attention" in the DVD commentary.

Sure, Jango mentions being recruited by Tyranus, who is revealed to be Dooku, who surely took the step of erasing Kamino from the archives before he left the Jedi Order. It's that simple, but then it had to be because Lucas left himself no time to come up with anything else. It's a shame because that whole conspiracy arc could've been started a lot earlier and helped with that sense of continuity which I feel is sorely lacking from the prequels.

You just conveyed what I've been unable to convey for years now: to me, the PT lack continuity.

They're good in their own right, and visually they're just stunning, but something's always been "off" to me. Now I know it - it's the continuity.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Wrong.

Each have more modelwork than the OT.

That's a little misleading, since CGI can (and did in these movies) include computer-generated modelwork.

If you're claiming that Attack of the Clones had more hand-made, non-computer models than A New Hope, I find it very difficult to believe and respectfully request some source of that fact. If it's true, it's ridiculously impressive by GL, et al., and I'll happily shut up.

[shelldweller]

What is wrong with the continuity?

[IndefinentBlu]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sifo-Dyas

[IndefinentBlu]

Interesting Q+A about Sifo-Dyas It appears Palpatine new Sifo-Dyas

Read the question than scroll down for the answer:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Star-Wars.../Sifo-Dyas.htm

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by indefinentnj

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sifo-Dyas

So, basically, what was supposed to be an alternate identity for Darth Sidious became a separate character more or less because of a typo of a single letter in the name.

Yeah, that sounds about right for the level of thought that went into the continuity of the PT.

[JoshKelhoffer]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

That's a little misleading, since CGI can (and did in these movies) include computer-generated modelwork.

Also, there was quite a bit of model work in those films. There was miniature sets, like the platform R2 landed on during the factory sequence in AOTC, and some of the ships and locations in TPM.

Plus, the issue itself isn't CGI but how it is used. My problems with Jar Jar aren't because he was created from computer graphics, but his silly antics and the fact that he never shuts up.

You just conveyed what I've been unable to convey for years now: to me, the PT lack continuity.

I'm not sure if you mean "continuity" necessarily, but story consistency. Not in technical terms, but literary terms. The story was started when Anakin was a kid, and that AOTC takes place ten years later, resulting in the need to re-introduce a couple of characters, mainly Anakin. ROTS, which was defined by Lucas as 80% of the story, had only a compacted amount of time and space for a lot of story, thus Lucas focused only on Anakin and not as much on the formation of the rebellion, which ended up on the cutting room floor, and some of other loose ends with other characters and threads. So some portions of those films feel rushed to some people, including myself.

Actually, Lucas was quite aware of this at the time, and starting re-formatting the story of ROTS, despite having most of that story thought out.

I also feel like Lucas might have felt pressure from the original films and how he handled stories back then. Because, for him, other than some main story points, his ideas where to take the story and fill in the gaps were constantly evolving, and when he got to his last couple of films, he probably felt like he had to say this and was forced to do that, only because this is how it happens in the older films. For example, the quick, throwaway line about erasing 3P0s memory which is exists to wrap the saga in a nice, neat bow, but in the moment, feels kind of random.

[IndefinentBlu]

Darth Ruin aka ( Phanius) was one of the lost twenty, like Dooku he too left the order and became Darth Ruin:

BEHOLD THE CREED OF RUIN

"There is no passion....There is solely obsession.
There is no knowledge.There is solely conviction.
There is no purpose. There is solely will.
There is nothing..
Only me."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Ruin

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JoshKelhoffer

Also, there was quite a bit of model work in those films. There was miniature sets, like the platform R2 landed on during the factory sequence in AOTC, and some of the ships and locations in TPM.

Plus, the issue itself isn't CGI but how it is used. My problems with Jar Jar aren't because he was created from computer graphics, but his silly antics and the fact that he never shuts up.

That is where I give Lucas all the credit in the world. People always moan about Jar Jar the character, not Jar Jar the CG creation, so Lucas must've been secretly pleased with that.

I'm not sure if you mean "continuity" necessarily, but story consistency. Not in technical terms, but literary terms. The story was started when Anakin was a kid, and that AOTC takes place ten years later, resulting in the need to re-introduce a couple of characters, mainly Anakin. ROTS, which was defined by Lucas as 80% of the story, had only a compacted amount of time and space for a lot of story, thus Lucas focused only on Anakin and not as much on the formation of the rebellion, which ended up on the cutting room floor, and some of other loose ends with other characters and threads. So some portions of those films feel rushed to some people, including myself.

Actually, Lucas was quite aware of this at the time, and starting re-formatting the story of ROTS, despite having most of that story thought out.

I also feel like Lucas might have felt pressure from the original films and how he handled stories back then. Because, for him, other than some main story points, his ideas where to take the story and fill in the gaps were constantly evolving, and when he got to his last couple of films, he probably felt like he had to say this and was forced to do that, only because this is how it happens in the older films. For example, the quick, throwaway line about erasing 3P0s memory which is exists to wrap the saga in a nice, neat bow, but in the moment, feels kind of random.

I totally agree, and I've said as much earlier in the thread. In the commentary for Sith someone mentions that they forgot about Obi-Wan collecting Anakin's lightsaber (to tie in with the original film) and had to shoot it during pick-ups! It's more evidence that when Lucas made the prequels he was less concerned with connecting the dots and more concerned with making each film on its own merits. If he'd created the best three space operas ever made, equal to or even better than the OT, then we could certainly forgive the flubs. But he didn't.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

That's a little misleading, since CGI can (and did in these movies) include computer-generated modelwork.

If you're claiming that Attack of the Clones had more hand-made, non-computer models than A New Hope, I find it very difficult to believe and respectfully request some source of that fact. If it's true, it's ridiculously impressive by GL, et al., and I'll happily shut up.

I think there was more modelwork involved in the PT than the OT. I think it's mentioned in one of the books probably a RotS one not sure if it's the 'making of' or 'art of' I'll dig them out and check. I know it's been mentioned here a few times anyway.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by chip75

I think there was more modelwork involved in the PT than the OT. I think it's mentioned in one of the books probably a RotS one not sure if it's the 'making of' or 'art of' I'll dig them out and check. I know it's been mentioned here a few times anyway.

Good for them - they could've fooled me! I would've sworn that it was 95% CGI. If you're saying actual handmade models were made, it is impressive that they used more than the OT movies, while making them look even better.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I totally agree, and I've said as much earlier in the thread. In the commentary for Sith someone mentions that they forgot about Obi-Wan collecting Anakin's lightsaber (to tie in with the original film) and had to shoot it during pick-ups!

I watched Ep.III the other day with the subtitles for the commentary track and I think they also mentioned that Obi-Wan thinks Anakin dies after he leaves him on the side of the lava. That he couldn't finish the job and would let the elements and his injuries finish him off. So it must be a surprise to him to find out he's alive later on.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

I am really glad you don't have a say....

This.

Wow! Just wow!

You've really hurt my feelings Bluyoda I would be a wise and just leader of Crazyland....

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I totally agree, and I've said as much earlier in the thread. In the commentary for Sith someone mentions that they forgot about Obi-Wan collecting Anakin's lightsaber (to tie in with the original film) and had to shoot it during pick-ups! It's more evidence that when Lucas made the prequels he was less concerned with connecting the dots and more concerned with making each film on its own merits. If he'd created the best three space operas ever made, equal to or even better than the OT, then we could certainly forgive the flubs. But he didn't.

I agree.

I heard about the whole thing where they almost forgot to have Obi-Wan pick up Anakin's lightsaber, and remembered at the last minute. That would have been a fairly big flub. Additionally, part of what bothered me in Episode II was the whole thing with Anakin kind of losing/breaking his lightsaber(s) left and right. While not technically a contradiction to Obi Wan giving Luke his father's lightsaber in ANH, it seems to kind of take some of the emotion and power away from that scene in a round-and-about way. Rather than it being Anakin's lightsaber... a trusty tool that he took good care of and served him well for many years, it just happened to be the last lightsaber that he used before "dying".

And it kind of gets back to a point that I made previously in a rant earlier in this thread, about how it kind of bothers me that in the prequels it is established that the Jedi shouldn't marry and have kids. Now, my initial point that I made regarding this was in relation to the issue of biology and the midichlorians (sp?). But even ignoring the midichlorian issue, this no marriage, no kids issue really works against that seen where Luke first meets Ben/Obi-Wan in ANH, in regards to his father wanting him to have the lightsaber, etc.

Ben tells Luke that his father wanted him to have this lightsaber when he (Luke) was old enough. And of course at this point Obi Wan is just making it sound like Luke's father was killed and doesn't specify that he became Vader. Wouldn't the fact that he even had kids at all, let alone "wanted" (as Obi Wan puts it) his lightsaber handed down to his son, raise some questions about why Luke's father, being a Jedi, would have even married and had kids? Now, I realize that Luke has been raised by his aunt and uncle and doesn't have much experience in life outside of the moisture farm, so I certainly don't expect him to be an inside-out expert on the Jedi. However, it's not like the Jedi are some kind of forgotten ancient civilization. It's only been 20 years or so since they were "wiped out". There should be plenty of people still alive who would have known about the Jedi, and the basics of their ways (including the no marriage/kids thing), and I would think this would have been information that Luke either would have already known, or would have come across shortly thereafter, thus raising some questions for him before discovering that Vader is his father in TESB.

Heck, there are a lot of things about that conversation that don't quite add up. Obi Wan seems to remenise about Anakin as a good friend, but he (Anakin) just comes across as being a complete jag-off in the two movies in which we see him as an adult. While they've had some good times, there was clearly a lot of ongoing frustration that Obi Wan had with Anakin that had been there for pretty much the entirety of their relationship as master and padawan. Then there's the whole comment on Anakin being a great pilot when Obi Wan first knew him. Okay, does this refer to the Pod Race? Because while they did hover above the ground, the Pods were more or less land vehicles, and not really something that they would "fly". And sure, there is the scene where young Anakin is in that ship at the end of Episode I and blows up that space station, but he more or less does that on 'accident' and at least part of the time the auto-pilot is on. This doesn't really give the indication of him being a great, trained pilot as indicated in the ANH conversation.

I understand that people will make the "certain point of view" arguement here, but frankly while that made sense in terms of not flat out telling Luke that Vader is his father, when we have to start applying that to everything that is spoken (not only in that initial conversation with Luke, but how many, many things int he OT 'line up' with what we see in the PT), it just becomes sad and weak after a while.

And that's the real problem. There are a lot of things that aren't necessarily 'continuity errors', but the logic between how one connects to the other is pretty weak, and forces us to make some sweeping assumptions about how this all can add up (i.e. Luke having no knowledge or just not questioning the rule of Jedi not being married or having kids, and no one around him who he meets and who knows he is training to be a Jedi like his father either having no knowledge or not questioning it either). A lot of people have to really be in the dark about a lot of information for that to happen.


I mean, this all would make much more sense if Jedi getting married wasn't such a terrible thing (maybe it wouldn't be the norm, but also wouldn't be totally unacceptible), if Anakin had taken better care of his lightsaber, had been a nicer guy to start with while gradually being seduced by the dark side, and if he at some point had simply made a comment about wanting to have a son to train as a Jedi one day and wanting to pass his lightsaber down to him. Now, I know that sounds like a lot, but most of that could have been covered in very brief pieces of dialogue spread out over the movies. And for the most part it wouldn't have tramatically altered the other key events occurring in the prequels in any detrimental way.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by chip75

I watched Ep.III the other day with the subtitles for the commentary track and I think they also mentioned that Obi-Wan thinks Anakin dies after he leaves him on the side of the lava. That he couldn't finish the job and would let the elements and his injuries finish him off. So it must be a surprise to him to find out he's alive later on.

Indeed. Obi-wan could not kill Anakin or at the time Darth Vader. Anakin was his brother in every sense of the word. He is a Jedi and no matter what you might think of Anakin at the time, Obi-wan just cannot kill him. He does walk away thinking the injuries will do the job. When you consider all the evil stuff Vader will be doing in the following 20 years, Obi-wan must have spend the rest of his life regretting the fact that he walk away.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Good for them - they could've fooled me! I would've sworn that it was 95% CGI. If you're saying actual handmade models were made, it is impressive that they used more than the OT movies, while making them look even better.

I think if we go back and think how many models are in ANH for example there probably aren't as many as we remember. I can't think of much more than a dozen ships for example.