Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Beast]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Not liking The Godfather as nothing to do about knowing or having bad taste in cinema. The Godfather is far from being the greatest movie ever made. I just love how the fans of this movie try to sound so superior because they love and understand The Godfather

Let see! Why I don't like The Godfather?

1. I do not enjoy gangster movies, never did and never will. The only time I will grant a gangster movie a break is if Humphrey Bogart is in it.

2. I really don't like any of the actors in the movie. I know I will be flamed by the cinema expert of The Godfather but I do not consider Pacino or Brando to be gods of acting. I hope you can all sleep tonight knowing this

3. I really do not enjoy the style of directing of Francis Ford Coppola.

Three strikes, your out!!!!!

Now where the difference is, I don't spend all my waking hours on the Internet forums making posts about my dislike of The Godfather unlike others who seem to have a serious fixation on the prequels

Well said. A lot of that is the same reasons I don't care for the Godfather films. Chief being the whole gangster movie aspect. They're just not my kinda movies. Which is also one of the chief reasons I don't care for the Nolan Batman films. Of course, there's a number of major reasons. So yeah, like I said... if I ever make a 4 hour video trashing the Nolan Batman films... someone please make steps to have an intervention.

[tilapiah6]

Originally Posted by Uxi

I doubt they'll care, either.

Seriously, though, the Muppet needs to go. Middle ground would be CGI enhancement without completely replacing it. Walking, climbing, etc but also the face is very... muppet-ish unlike the Ep3 CGI model.

I wholeheartedly agree. They'd better be EXTREMELY faithful to the original. We all know how that goes....

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I too question Beast's film tastes. He doesn't like the Godfather or the Nolan Batman films, yet defends a film trilogy largley seen as inferior to his dying breath? However, and I cannot believe I am about to write this: I have to respect the guy. He does defend himself and despite what a lot of us may think; I don't feel he is writing some things out of spite or lack of intelligence (like a few others whom will remain nameless, just not worth the effort). He may have his moments (Mother****er mention Darth Maul one more time....) but we all get a little caught up. Beast is okay in comparison to a few others and I don't mind his opinions.

As far as sitting through that review, its like going on a date. You can sit with someone for 4 or 5 minutes and KNOW: "This isn't for me..." I am pretty sure forcing someone (i.e. Beast) whom LOVES the PT to watch something that points out all its flaws is NOT fun for him. He loves those movies and there is no amount of reviews or opinions that is going to change that. Within 5 minutes of that 4 hour review Beast knows it is going to offend him or make him feel inferior in some way. He doesn't have to sit through that at all. That is the great thing about entertainment, if you don't like it, you can turn it off. I do that with the PT all the time...

Oh, but make no mistake. Beast, like the rest of us, is a fanboy through and through.

I can respect Beast's opinions to a certain extent. I just wish they were more frequently expressed as opinions. While not explicitly saying so, he often comes across like his opinion is fact and is the only valid view point. He is otherwise good at expressing his preferences in an adult manner... it's just the jumping to conclusions about content that he hasn't even watched that bugs me most.



And in regards to the Godfather, I'll be honest and say that I can't say for certain if I like the movie or not since I've never seen more than a few minutes of it.

Like Beast and P@t_Mtl, I'm not really into gangster movies, so I get the feeling that it wouldn't be my cup of tea, and as a result haven't really gone out of my way to watch it. But that being said, since I haven't seen it all of the way through (or even most of it), I'm in no position what-so-ever to make a definite statement on it like, "It's just some crappy gangster movie and is no different than the rest," just as certain others around here who haven't seen these reviews all of the way through can't fairly jump to the conclusion that they are fanboy whining from someone living in his parent's basement.

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Don't you think that's stretching it a "bit" far? Come on, that guy is a hopeless jerk, and cannot possibly be taken seriously.
Nigh said.

Have you watched them? If you haven't, then you have no basis for this statement. Period.

He has been taken seriously, and has been noticed by well known film critics such as Roger Ebert (who posted links to the Episode III review on his blog). Even if you don't like or agree with Ebert, that's fine, but you can't deny that he is a well respected, major name in the field of film criticism.

But I guess his opinions don't matter as much as those as a guy on a webforum with a Yoda screen name and avatar who's post often read like they are being written by a kid in grade school.

Spot on!

Except it wasn't spot on at all. People aren't complaining about small little nuances like whether or not the lightsaber sound effects in one movie matched with the sound effects in another, or anything like that. We are talking about major issues in terms of character and plot development. Quite a difference from what that comic is stating.

I too, take any SW episode over the Batman movies any day.
At least George Lucas has a sense of humor and wit.
Also, his movies are filled with warmth, have great messages, and radiate positivity, whereas Nolan's films are dark, hopeless, violent, psychotic ....

I really don't get all the love for TDK, despite the fact that the performances are excellent, the execution terrific, and music, but the feeling I get from it is similar to The Godfather: Gosh, what an awful world we live in!
I guess people in this cynical world prefer negativity ....

It sounds to me like you completely missed the point of TDK.

Originally Posted by Beast

So yeah, like I said... if I ever make a 4 hour video trashing the Nolan Batman films... someone please make steps to have an intervention.

I think there is a key difference here. Most people who get frustrated over the PT to the point of wanting to express it at length do so out of a love/hate relationship with the Star Wars property.

Many grew up with the OT and were really interested and excited to finally see the PT after so many years only to be primarily disapointed by it. It's a type of frustration in the film world that doesn't happen very often on this level.


Not liking the Godfather, for example, is a completely different bag of apples, because it's not like it was the long awaited continuation of a story that you were already interested and invested in.

Even the Nolan Batman films are a whole different situation because they were not meant as a continuation of the previous Batman films (which are already divided down the middle anyway given the stark differences between Burton and Schumacher's takes on the character), and is a different continuity entirely. The Nolan Batman films are even arguably in a different situation than most film remakes since they are based on characters that have had many different incarnations and continuties in both comics and cartoons (both past and present). These movies are just one more incarnation amongst many. So, it's easier to focus on the incarnations that you like and ignore the ones that you don't. With most typical movie remakes (in which the original version was it's own stand-alone work, not based on anything else), it can be much more contraversial as there is not some long-standing history of various incarnations of the story/characters.



So, in that sense, I can see why someone would go through the trouble of reviewing the PT at length as this guy did, and why it is a completely different situation than your hate/dislike of TDK.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Beast

Yeah, Alec Guiness didn't turn into a huge ass about the role until years later.

I don't think Sir Alec Guiness became a huge ass, he was an actor through and through he played his part and that was that. It would only have seemed odd to the man that children began to treat him like Santa Claus. It would irk some people if they only became recognized for a single role, imagine if Sir Laurence Olivier was only remembered for Zeus in Clash of the Titans? The fantasy films often had great stage legends because they were professional and you could throw anything at them and they would give it their all. Sir Christopher Lee has had similar problems with Dracula and you can see him shrivel up when Lucas shows him the Yoda with vampire teeth in the maikng of AotC.

Small children won't have understood where Guiness was coming from but I'd like to think some of us get where he was coming from. He could have done it better or differently but he may at the end of the day not quite understood the whole Star Wars thing....

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by chip75

I don't think Sir Alec Guiness became a huge ass, he was an actor through and through he played his part and that was that. It would only have seemed odd to the man that children began to treat him like Santa Claus. It would irk some people if they only became recognized for a single role, imagine if Sir Laurence Olivier was only remembered for Zeus in Clash of the Titans? The fantasy films often had great stage legends because they were professional and you could throw anything at them and they would give it their all. Sir Christopher Lee has had similar problems with Dracula and you can see him shrivel up when Lucas shows him the Yoda with vampire teeth in the maikng of AotC.

Small children won't have understood where Guiness was coming from but I'd like to think some of us get where he was coming from. He could have done it better or differently but he may at the end of the day not quite understood the whole Star Wars thing....

Yeah, while I don't agree with him being as much of a jerk to kids as he apparently was, I can see where his issue in this matter lies.

For him, while he was probably glad to be doing these movies, he probably never expected them to become the cultural phenomenon that they became. It was just the job he happened to be doing at that time, amongst many in his past. Heck, at least he had a nice, long career before becoming recognized for just this one part.

Look at actors like the cast of the Brady Bunch or Gilligan's Island. These shows became very popular, and ran pretty much non-stop in syndicated reruns for many, many, many years after the shows ended. And many of those actors had a hard time finding other acting work afterwards due largely to them being overly recognized for their roles on those shows. And for many of these people, these were probably just the jobs that they were doing at the time... they probably liked them to a certain extent, but didn't expect them to practically haunt them the rest of their lives. Some took it better than others, but it's been well that in some cases (Eve Plum who played Jan on the Brady Bunch being one example) they came to resent it years later.

And can you imagine going through the whole rest of your life being known as Gilligan? No wonder Bob Denver was smoking pot in his old age!

So, I can see why some people might resent this sort of attention.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

He has been taken seriously, and has been noticed by well known film critics such as Roger Ebert (who posted links to the Episode III review on his blog). Even if you don't like or agree with Ebert, that's fine, but you can't deny that he is a well respected, major name in the field of film criticism.

Which in the grand scheme of things means absolutely nothing. Ebert's opinion is no better or more worthy of respect than the average moviegoer. And shouldn't be taken as gospel. He's just a man with his own opinions and bias just like everyone else. Plus he's turned into something of an ass himself over the years, though it's understandable what with Siskel's death and then his health problems. But anyone who considers himself superior to the common man and considers others "not sufficiently evolved" is full of himself, and full of something else as well.

But I guess his opinions don't matter as much as those as a guy on a webforum with a Yoda screen name and avatar who's post often read like they are being written by a kid in grade school.

Grand Moff Tarkin: "Charming to the last."

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Like Beast and P@t_Mtl, I'm not really into gangster movies, so I get the feeling that it wouldn't be my cup of tea, and as a result haven't really gone out of my way to watch it. But that being said, since I haven't seen it all of the way through (or even most of it), I'm in no position what-so-ever to make a definite statement on it like, "It's just some crappy gangster movie and is no different than the rest," just as certain others around here who haven't seen these reviews all of the way through can't fairly jump to the conclusion that they are fanboy whining from someone living in his parent's basement.

I have seen the movie from start to finish, I did not enjoy it at all.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

So, in that sense, I can see why someone would go through the trouble of reviewing the PT at length as this guy did, and why it is a completely different situation than your hate/dislike of TDK.

It's the samething. State that you don't like it, explain why and give your reasons which is normal but four hours really??? You need four hours to say you don't enjoy something?? Sound more like someone in desperate need of attention then trying to make any serious explanation. Like I said, I did not enjoy The Godfather, I don't spend my entire days saying how horrible it was. The same could be applied to the prequels. You enjoyed the original but the prequels, fine I can live with that but don't go crazy on it. It's one thing to be a fan, it's another once you start crossing into the creepy and weird like some do. I just start going a little worried when it goes beyond "I did not enjoy the prequels, here is why" and instead goes into "the prequels suck, Lucas raped my childhood, he should die, I hate him, I want to destroy the whole universe...." you see the difference?

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

Very well said. But it's not so much that Beast might have questionable tastes or opinions that differ so much from other people. I mean you're right, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, have to respect that. But like Dynamo said, what's annoying sometimes is just the way he often smugly makes his opinions seem like they're absolute undeniable fact and tries to make everybody else seem like they're opinions and feelings on a certain matter are meaningless and aren't worth a damn at all. Maybe it's not intended on his part and maybe he doesn't mean to sound like that, but unfortunately it just comes across like that many times.

And yeah, he doesn't have to sit through the reviews at all if he thinks they're going to offend him, nothing wrong with that either. But, if I may borrow from Dynamo again, he's in no position to just dismiss them as nothing but mindless fanboy ravings done by a guy who lives in his parents basement when they're actually done by a very intelligent and creative independent filmmaker who maintains his own residence in Milwaukee (especially if he's only seen a few minutes of the reviews at best).

But that was a very good point you made about him in comparison to the other posters though. I mean yeah, Beast is absolutely nothing compared to people on here like Starkiller (I'm sure he was one of the ones you were refering to)

Oh, I know what you when someone types something and it comes off as if it is indeed fact. I find that annoying too, but when it adds to the conversation it is not bad at all (Beast adds more than he takes away usually). I'm with you, no doubt and I think we basically agree. Dynamo brought up excellent points (I wouldn't disagree with that guy as I share a lot of the same views), and I just wanted to counter point is all. There are a few here so stuck on their ideas that no matter how much you try to convince otherwise you are never going to change their mind.

[Beast]

You guys keep saying I post things as if they were fact. Do I really need to start typing the entirely unnecessary "In my opinion" in every post from now on to help you read it as an opinion? Pretty much everything that someone posts that isn't reposted information from somewhere else is nothing more than opinion. I really didn't think you guys couldn't distinguish opinion from fact. But I guess I have start tagging everything with "In my opinion".

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Not liking The Godfather as nothing to do about knowing or having bad taste in cinema. The Godfather is far from being the greatest movie ever made. I just love how the fans of this movie try to sound so superior because they love and understand The Godfather

Let see! Why I don't like The Godfather?

1. I do not enjoy gangster movies, never did and never will. The only time I will grant a gangster movie a break is if Humphrey Bogart is in it.

2. I really don't like any of the actors in the movie. I know I will be flamed by the cinema expert of The Godfather but I do not consider Pacino or Brando to be gods of acting. I hope you can all sleep tonight knowing this

3. I really do not enjoy the style of directing of Francis Ford Coppola.

Three strikes, your out!!!!!

Now where the difference is, I don't spend all my waking hours on the Internet forums making posts about my dislike of The Godfather unlike others who seem to have a serious fixation on the prequels

Um, that's cool but I don't think anyone really asked? There is a Godfather forum that would LOVE to hear from you I am sure. Same as I am sure the Nolan Batman forum would love to have Beast for a few days. Anyway, I can respect your opinion. It isn't your kind of movie and that is cool.

I will agree with one comment though, Coppola isn't the world's greatest director. I loved the Godfather 1 and 2, but outside of that his work isn't really amazing imo (I feel the way about Apocalypse Now as you do the Godfather). Will take Martin Scorsese anyday of the week over Coppola. He has directed two great movies and maybe 2 decent ones but he also made JACK which is a sore on the ass of cinema.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I have seen the movie from start to finish, I did not enjoy it at all.

I've probably seen all of at least the first one, but not from start to finish.

I just can't get into the films. In fact, it was refreshing to hear on the commentary for the Family Guy episode where Peter states his dislike of The Godfather that it was inspired by Seth McFarlane's own dislike of the movie and the debates he's had with people.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Well, it just helps if it starts off with something like "in my opinion" or "I think" or "I feel" or something like that.

It just comes across differently that way. While I'm sure that you intend these things as just being your opinion, the tone often suggests otherwise.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Well, it just helps if it starts off with something like "in my opinion" or "I think" or "I feel" or something like that.

It just comes across differently that way. While I'm sure that you intend these things as just being your opinion, the tone often suggests otherwise.

Well, that's not my fault though. That's yours for reading intent into posts that isn't there.

Pretty much anything that people post is from an opinion standpoint. So it's unnecessary to tag it as so.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

It's the samething. State that you don't like it, explain why and give your reasons which is normal but four hours really??? You need four hours to say you don't enjoy something?? Sound more like someone in desperate need of attention then trying to make any serious explanation. Like I said, I did not enjoy The Godfather, I don't spend my entire days saying how horrible it was. The same could be applied to the prequels. You enjoyed the original but the prequels, fine I can live with that but don't go crazy on it. It's one thing to be a fan, it's another once you start crossing into the creepy and weird like some do. I just start going a little worried when it goes beyond "I did not enjoy the prequels, here is why" and instead goes into "the prequels suck, Lucas raped my childhood, he should die, I hate him, I want to destroy the whole universe...." you see the difference?

No, it's not the same thing AT ALL. You didn't like the Godfather. It was simply a movie that you didn't enjoy. Plain and simple. It wasn't a continuation of something that you already loved and had a vested interest in.

I didn't enjoy the movie "AdventureLand" and found it rahter boring (I know, not a major production or blockbuster like SW or the Godfather, but it's just an offhand example that came to mind). But, it's not a sequel or prequel to another movie that I liked a lot... it's not something that I was anticipating for years... it's not based on some other existing work that I am a huge fan of. It was just a movie that I saw and didn't care for. As such, I haven't seen it again and really don't discuss it much. But, by contrast, I grew up with the OT films, enjoyed them a lot, looked forward to the prequels, but despite liking a handful of aspects here and there, found them frustratingly sub-par, and it's that love/hate relationship that makes it such an interesting topic of conversation and why I do discuss it here, while I don't really discuss my dislike of movies that I had no attachment to in any way going into them.

And this whole "four hours" thing is being taken out of context to a certain extent. These were 3 separate videos (1 for each PT movie) made on separate occasions, and yes, each is about an hour to an hour and a half long. Still a lot of commitment, but it's over the course of time.

And as I stated in a previous post, film critics in general spend a lot of time reviewing movies that they don't like. That certainly adds up to A LOT MORE than 4 hours dedicated to discussing movies that they don't like over time.

And heck, many other people have spent way more time on forums like this discussing this matter. At least this guy went ahead and made his 4 hour (when all added up) review and is done with it.

Keep in mind that the guy has his own site, with advertising, etc, on it (before each part of the Ep III review, an ad runs), and likely gets money from the advertising. So, at least he's getting some cash for being able to discuss his dislike of the movies.



So, sorry, but it is QUITE DIFFERENT than your dislike of the Godfather. The two don't even compare.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I can respect Beast's opinions to a certain extent. I just wish they were more frequently expressed as opinions. While not explicitly saying so, he often comes across like his opinion is fact and is the only valid view point. He is otherwise good at expressing his preferences in an adult manner... it's just the jumping to conclusions about content that he hasn't even watched that bugs me most.

It's not hard: If someone says something, it's his/her opinion.

And in regards to the Godfather, I'll be honest and say that I can't say for certain if I like the movie or not since I've never seen more than a few minutes of it.

Like Beast and P@t_Mtl, I'm not really into gangster movies, so I get the feeling that it wouldn't be my cup of tea, and as a result haven't really gone out of my way to watch it. But that being said, since I haven't seen it all of the way through (or even most of it), I'm in no position what-so-ever to make a definite statement on it like, "It's just some crappy gangster movie and is no different than the rest," just as certain others around here who haven't seen these reviews all of the way through can't fairly jump to the conclusion that they are fanboy whining from someone living in his parent's basement.

It's very well-directed, perfectly acted...., but just not our cup of tea.
It's simply a matter of taste. Oh, sorry, you weren't asking for my opinion.


Have you watched them? If you haven't, then you have no basis for this statement. Period.

I tried, but within one minute I couldn't stand him any longer.
Again, he is as ridiculous as one could possibly get, but feel free to enjoy his stuff.

He has been taken seriously, and has been noticed by well known film critics such as Roger Ebert (who posted links to the Episode III review on his blog). Even if you don't like or agree with Ebert, that's fine, but you can't deny that he is a well respected, major name in the field of film criticism.

Hitler was taken seriously too. Just saying.

But I guess his opinions don't matter as much as those as a guy on a webforum with a Yoda screen name and avatar who's post often read like they are being written by a kid in grade school.

Couldn't have said it better. Thanks, Beast.


Except it wasn't spot on at all. People aren't complaining about small little nuances like whether or not the lightsaber sound effects in one movie matched with the sound effects in another, or anything like that. We are talking about major issues in terms of character and plot development. Quite a difference from what that comic is stating.

Right, only the weight of lightsabers, and whether you could or could not with with one hand.


It sounds to me like you completely missed the point of TDK.

I got it alright, and I do like the message, but the mood is simply not my taste.
Nolan's films have no joy. That's MY OPINION.

Originally Posted by Beast

You guys keep saying I post things as if they were fact. Do I really need to start typing the entirely unnecessary "In my opinion" in every post from now on to help you read it as an opinion? Pretty much everything that someone posts that isn't reposted information from somewhere else is nothing more than opinion. I really didn't think you guys couldn't distinguish opinion from fact. But I guess I have start tagging everything with "In my opinion".

It's probably the same problem as their need to having everything in the PT spelled out for them.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

Yes, the implication that some of these posts (all in March 2011) spew "facts" is clearly the fault of the readers. Definitely 100% not the writer...

https://forum.blu-ray.com/4496218-post10461.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/4496235-post10462.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post4478245

https://forum.blu-ray.com/4454733-post9781.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/4449117-post9635.html

https://forum.blu-ray.com/4448801-post9607.html

My my... going out of your way to debate with me, arn't you?

Much of that is simply restating information available elsewhere in regard to the movies.

[IndefinentBlu]

I have been thinking about this i don't think it was the force lightning that killed Vader.

CAUSE:

Remember in Episode 1 when Padme says that all slaves have a transmitter placed inside of them.

Then Anakin says that if you try to escape then a button could be pushed and, kill you whether it is a toxin or an actual explosive that has never been explained.

In ROTJ just as Vader starts to pick up the emperor we hear what sounds like a beeping noise going off on his chest control plate.

NOW

I think either that the transmitter was secretly reactivated when he was placed in the suit and, it was fixed where if he turned against the emperor than it would activate and kill him.

OR

Maybe it was never removed from Anakin and, the force lightning activated it and killed him slowly.

OR

It could also be possible that Vader knew that the transmitter was reactivated when he went into the suit and,that is why he never dared to turn against his master cause he was afraid of death.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

So, sorry, but it is QUITE DIFFERENT than your dislike of the Godfather. The two don't even compare.

In my opnion is over doing it (see what I did there "in my opinion" ) but I can see why you would thing it's not.

I just get creep out by the whole fandom sometimes. If you recall I also made fun of those that debated the weight of lightsabers for 5 or 6 pages back then Stuff like that for me is just plain weird, so I will tease in good fun without trying to insult the person. I just never got into this whole adulation some people go over into when they love something. If any of you ever been into a scifi convention you will knowwhat I mean I enjoyed Star Wars but I don't know, some fans just take it to strange level in my opinion (see what I did again )

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Right, only the weight of lightsabers, and whether you could or could not with with one hand.

I actually agree that this was a ridiculous argument. It's one that I did not defend, nor did I participate in it. But that's quite a different case than anything that I have argued against, or anything being argued in those videos.

I'm much more concerned about more sweeping problems with plot and character development than I am with the nuances of the weight of the lightsabers.

[Chordata]

Guys come on, stop knocking the "lightsaber weight" debate. That was one of the best debates in the history of the Internet!!