Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by chip75

So General Grievous (you made a RLM joke by calling him Grevious, we've discovered your secret identity!) was given the information on how to breach security by Dooku, which he didn't question. Those apprentices are a trusting lot.

They're Sith. They're trained in treachery from the beginning. They don't trust and are only as trustworthy as their fear of their master's power ensures.

It wasn't a great plan either, first thing I would do is shoot Palpatine in the face and go home....

No you wouldn't, you would do what you're told or you'd be disposed of.

[BladeRunner2007]

I have a question regarding the real unaltered original theatrical cuts of 'Empire' and 'Return'. Were they always called episode V and VI (even in theaters back in '80 and '83)?

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

James, I have always wondered, why didn't Obi-Wan and Anakin use the Force to attack each other with lava on Mustafar?

Good question... I also wonder if either one had enough power to Force Grab the other and throw them into it. That's how I pictured Darth Vader's "accident" before ROTS anyway. His nubbins caught fire awful easily... or was it his clothes? Maybe they were soaked in lighter fluid.

Why didn't Obi-Wan or Anakin use the Force in the arena in II? The OT showed us that there's so much more to the Jedi than lightsabers.

Can only Sith Force Choke? Ben could have choked out Jango Fett during their fight in II, right? Hell, Vader could do it without even being near his victim! Ben could have stayed inside where it was warm and done it.

Why didn't Ben run faster at the end of TPM? He could go super fast.

Jedi Mind Trick on Grevious. They should have tried.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I had a talk with him last night, I asked him the exact same question, do you know what Lucas told me? When people stop asking for them every 5 seconds on the Internet

Haha. So never.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

If he would just release them, then people would stop asking for them!

Makes sense. I would see no need to complain if my basic Star Wars needs were met.

Mountain Dew has given us many different varieties yet still makes available its original flavor. Why? Because people still drink it.

People want Star Wars. They're "thirsty"!

[Beast]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

I have a question regarding the real unaltered original theatrical cuts of 'Empire' and 'Return'. Were they always called episode V and VI (even in theaters back in '80 and '83)?

Yes. The only film that didn't have the episode number and title was A New Hope.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by chip75

It wasn't a great plan either, first thing I would do is shoot Palpatine in the face and go home....

The Separatists wanted/needed Palpatine alive so they held all the cards and could force the Republic to agree to their terms.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

His nubbins caught fire awful easily... or was it his clothes? Maybe they were soaked in lighter fluid.

Stand right next to lava sometime and get back to me if you don't go up in flames.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Why didn't Obi-Wan or Anakin use the Force in the arena in II? The OT showed us that there's so much more to the Jedi than lightsabers.

Can only Sith Force Choke? Ben could have choked out Jango Fett during their fight in II, right? Hell, Vader could do it without even being near his victim! Ben could have stayed inside where it was warm and done it.

Why didn't Ben run faster at the end of TPM? He could go super fast.

Jedi Mind Trick on Grevious. They should have tried."!

They do use the force in the arena. You can see Obi-Wan using a mind trick on the reek beast

Grevious wasn't suseptable to mind tricks

The lack of "force speed" in the end battle is a huge plot hole however. Makes no sense whatsoever.

[Sith]

[QUOTE=JamesKurtovich;4535060]Can only Sith Force Choke? Ben could have choked out Jango Fett during their fight in II, right? Hell, Vader could do it without even being near his victim! Ben could have stayed inside where it was warm and done it.




QUOTE]

Jedi strong enough in the force could force choke. But like Dark Force Lighting it's a dark side power and to use it would endanger a Jedi of going over to the dark side.

[binarymelon]

Originally Posted by Beast

Grevious didn't know that Palpatine was Sidious for one. Outside of his Apprentices, nobody knew.

Apart from the surprise on Dooku's face when Palpatine tells Anakin to kill him, do we even have any definitive proof that his apprentices knew their master was Palpatine?

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

They do use the force in the arena. You can see Obi-Wan using a mind trick on the reek beast

Ah, okay. Didn't recall that.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by binarymelon

Apart from the surprise on Dooku's face when Palpatine tells Anakin to kill him, do we even have any definitive proof that his apprentices knew their master was Palpatine?

Yes. The fact that Dooku hired Jango to serve as the clone template for the Republic is more than enough proof that he was conspiring with Palpatine to manufacture a fake war.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

I have a question regarding the real unaltered original theatrical cuts of 'Empire' and 'Return'. Were they always called episode V and VI (even in theaters back in '80 and '83)?

Yes.

Although I'm sure someone with a more encyclopedic knowledge of SW can give more details, I believe the "Episode" moniker was first added to Star Wars on it's re-release before ESB premiered.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

The lack of "force speed" in the end battle is a huge plot hole however. Makes no sense whatsoever.

People use the term "plot hole" too loosely. It's not a plot hole if it doesn't affect the plot. And since not using force speed doesn't affect the plot, or leave a hole in the plot, it's not a plot hole.

[kenkraly2004]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Yes.

Although I'm sure someone with a more encyclopedic knowledge of SW can give more details, I believe the "Episode" moniker was first added to Star Wars on it's re-release before ESB premiered.

Yes your correct the episode 4 A New Hope title was added to the re-release of star wars in theaters in 1981. The 1st star wars film to have the episode number in the opening crawl was the empire strikes back in 1980.

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

People use the term "plot hole" too loosely. It's not a plot hole if it doesn't affect the plot. And since not using force speed doesn't affect the plot, or leave a hole in the plot, it's not a plot hole.

Just very bad decision making on the part of Obi-Wan.

When time came to write this part of the story, apparently Lucas forgot he gave the Jedi this ability.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, enough with the RLM-style assumptions. Where is it said that the transmitter is or isn't proximity related? Maybe Watto's got a remote detonator somewhere? If the boy don't come back from his day at the races: KA-BOOM!

As for Shmi not being freed earlier, it's made explicitly clear in Phantom Menace that the Republic have no influence in the Outer Rim. Even their currency is worthless. The Jedi aren't in the day-to-day business of freeing slaves either, with Qui-Gon freeing the gifted Anakin being the exception that proves the rule.

Lucas launched us head-first into the Star Wars universe with the original film, giving us some info in the title crawl and then BAM - we're right into it. His mistake was trying the same trick with the prequels, as those films were made to fill in the gaps of the OT and I think people expected an orgy of self-serving dot-connecting rather than the, er, "freeform" stories that we actually got.

Lucas didn't have to explain everything away in the original movies, we just got swept along with it, and I honestly think that he expected audiences to be able to do the same thing with the prequels. Sure, the story is more convoluted than the simplistic OT and definitely needed more work - although the structures of the actual films are VERY similar - yet the bare bones are there for anyone willing to actually dig for them. Heck, most of the groundwork of Phantom Menace which the RLM review complained so very much about not understanding is explained right there in the crawl. But in this golden age of nit-picking - brought to you by the Internet™ - people obsess about the smallest of details (visible poison gas = WORST MOVIE EVER etc) which leaves them unwilling or unable to step back and see the bigger picture.

George is of course guilty of this himself, which is part of the problem. He's a perfectionist who's constantly tweaking, updating and revising his work whether he made it 35 years or 35 minutes ago (a holdover from his early days as a documentary maker). In a way, these movies were made by the ultimate nit-picking film-maker for the ultimate nit-picking audience, and instead of satisfying the latter it created a perfect storm of fanboy angst that will be remembered for as long as the name of Star Wars is known.

I know I'm tying myself in all sorts of knots with this post, but it's been on my mind for a while and I just wanted to vomit it out in all its glory.


Yup, dude's got an obession with all things taking off/landing related. He even added that superfluous Vader/Star Destroyer sequence to Empire.

I very much agree with you.

I don't think George's a perfectionist however. He just wanted the UOT to come a little closer to his original vision, and fixed the VFX that had caused him stomachache.

Heck, if he was a perfectionist, he certainly would have fixed A LOT more.

In Cinefex (TPM issue) he said he just goes to ILM wanting the VFX to be good enough to get by, unlike many other clients who come to ILM, expecting the best of the best.

He is very cost concerned. IMO, a bit too much.
He has no problems giving much of his fortune away, but spending it on his movies seems to be very difficult for him.

I am very curious what changes we are going to see in the new editions.

I really hope it'll be the final versions.
The technology has reached a point where perfection is clearly feasible.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

I very much agree with you.

I don't think George's a perfectionist however. He just wanted the UOT to come a little closer to his original vision, and fixed the VFX that had caused him stomachache.

I really hope it'll be the final versions.
The technology has reached a point where perfection is clearly feasible.

See, that's the sad part - and where he's shot himself in the foot with a blaster.

When he mutilated the original print of Star Wars to make the SE's, he lost frames in the master and spliced in the now antiquated 1996 CGI directly. So unless he has reassembled the original print (a full restoration of which is impossible as when the CGI shots were spliced in they lost a frame or two on each edge of the splice), which would mean that he has a pristine copy of the original cut (negating any excuses as to why he can't release it), instead he will just be repainting 2011 cartoons OVER the 1997 cartoons.

When it comes to the last two prequels, though, he really royally screwed the Jawa - he filmed them in 1080p. In his rush to be a "digital filmmaker" - hey look, brand new camera I'm going to use, first film ever to use it - he "filmed" them using what now is antiquated tech. The best those last two prequels will *ever* look is 1080p. That might not seem like a huge problem since Blu is 1080p, but as most of us know the good Blu masters are now made at 2K minimum, if not 4 or 8K.

It's ironic that by trying to capture the future, he's forever left the films in the past.

[Beast]

Not really. When you consider the human eye can't really percieve beyond 1080p anyway.

[Aquel]

Originally Posted by Jay444

I think this is one of the biggest short comings of the PT. It doesn't show how brutal a regime the Empire actually is. We get the 'hint' that the Clone Troops betrayed the Wookies on Ksykk (sp?) in the brief scene in ROTS where the scout walkers are searching for survivors. But that was it.

Lucas could have gone a LOT farther and added a few scenes as part of Order 66 showing the Wookie enslavement, betrayal of all of his supporters in the senate (no way he should have had any alien presence around him just before the fight with Yoda), and perhaps show Clone Troopers killing the cloners on Kamino/taking over other planets. Yes, we get the idea they are killing off the Jedi, which is good, but Lucas missed showing how that impacts the rest of the galaxy. Domino effect if you will. Would have had a greater impact I think showing things going from bad to worse for the rest of the galaxy (i.e. those ugly ass Vampire looking dudes on the planet Greivous is killed were held hostage by the Seperatists, why not show the Clone Troop turning on them as well?)

My only other issue with the PT that really irks me is that the Clone Troops have color showing rank on their uniforms which doesn't match up AT ALL with the OT. HUGE continuity error there. It makes complete sense to have colors show rank/camo on Clone Troop uniforms, but to think the Empire would just be like "Well, we don't need that anymore when fighting the rebellion." 30 or 20 years later is kind of silly. To be honest, the color scheme of rank is a good idea and should have stayed with just the Droid army. The lack of color, black/white, are absolutes and only the Sith think that way. Would have been more realistic to just start off with plain black and white uniforms so I wouldnt have to ask: Why didn't the Scout Troops in Jedi not have Camo?

Agreed with your opinion that the Empire´s oppression to the average Joe could have been shown a bit better. Maybe a ending in ROTS where we see the Empire dominating planets could have been a nice parallel to the liberation of planets we see in ROTJ.

Well an explanation I read for the whole armor thing I read once was that the Empire got cheap on it´s normal arsenal and used their budget primarily for the larger weapons(Stormtroopers and cheaply built Tie Fighters meant they were expendable but a large budget for Star Destroyers and a Death Star). You could argue that this is also why the Death Star's defense was aimed against a large frontal attack by capital ships and didn't really provide a good defense against small and fast starfighters.

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Beast

Not really. When you consider the human eye can't really percieve beyond 1080p anyway.

Not really true. Here is a good article for you:

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter

Mostly, it is all about viewing angle. They seem to think 1440p is the next step.