Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by kamphausd1

Yes, you're right, they are his movies and he should be allowed to. Lot's of director's do it, and as octagon already pointed out to you, nobody has ever argued that he shouldn't (at least I don't think). But what that has to do with trying to erase the originals from existence and stubbornly refusing to give the consumer the option between versions, I still don't know.



You know what, you're right. We should respect that. Yeah, we should all just sit back and respect the fact that he adamantly refuses to give the important, classic and groundbreaking versions the proper treatment they so rightfully deserve and never speak another word of it again. Yeah, good thinking, why didn't that ever occur to me before?

I can only guess but maybe it's because you are not reading when people are posting

All joking aside, Lucas is not going around destroying all copies of the old version so please stop saying that. All he is doing is refusing to release them into the new home video format. People still have their VHS and Laserdisc version. When he is going from house to house with the 501th legion asking for every copy people own and throw them into a bond fire, then I will agree with you.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Agreed. To be honest, I'm sure Ben thought Anakin had died on Mustafar.

I think he was hoping it would be so. Anakin was/is his brother. I have a brother as well and I can tell you, no matter how evil he may turn up, I just could never bring myself to kill him. That is how I see Ben in that situation.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

While you are correct in what you say, my point is that Ben & Yoda should have went after Vader & Palpatine a lot sooner. Waiting for Luke to grow up & hopefully learn enough (from two old men) to defeat two people that they couldn't was just a bad plan.

You can only say that if you haven't seen the Phantom Menace. In this first Star Wars Movie it is established that MidiChlorian Count in Anakins blood is off the chart - which means that his potential to use the force is much larger than in any other Jedi, including Yoda and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan could defeat Vader in Episode 3 only because the Sith made a technical mistake...

ONLY one of Anakins offspring (due to their inherited large Midichlorian count) can be a match to Darth Vader and the Emperor.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Darth Anakin

The way the Skywalkers were handled. They don't really explain Anakin's origin or give a realistic portrayal of why Padme would fall in love with him or even just accept him slaughtering Sand people and dozens of children. Not to mention Anakin should've been able to use the Force and his own instincts to realize he didn't Force choke Padme to death. Oh and I didn't like how little training Luke got, what was it, 2 months' worth?

The whole love affair never sat right with me either. It simply was not believable. Forget all about the badly written love scenes. The whole idea of it just doesn't make sense. Anakin thinking about someone every day, for years. Someone he only knew when he was a child, and was only in contact with for a few days time. Someone he never seemed enamored with in the first place. And Padme... Falling for someone she only knew years ago as a child, at a time when she was the ruler of a planet. No. I just don't buy it at all.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

You can only say that if you haven't seen the Phantom Menace. In this first Star Wars Movie it is established that MidiChlorian Count in Anakins blood is off the chart - which means that his potential to use the force is much larger than in any other Jedi, including Yoda and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan could defeat Vader in Episode 3 only because the Sith made a technical mistake...

ONLY one of Anakins offspring (due to their inherited large Midichlorian count) can be a match to Darth Vader and the Emperor.

Nah! I see that as just a easy way out. In reality Yoda could taken Vader and Palpatine, he as some nasty moves

The problem is killing. When you spend a thousand years saying that a Jedi favor's life over killing, that leave's a mark somewhere. Think about this. How many Jedi do we see killing sentient beings in the movies? First Ben kill's Darth Maul in a moment of anger because of the loss of his master. He flirted with the Dark side at that moment. Then he later kill's Grevious who you can argue is more a machine then a man at that point. What else? Anakin kill's Dooku to begin his path on the Dark side. Did I forget something? Mostly you see Jedi turning robots into scrap metal and that is all. Killing is just not into the nature of Jedi. Even Mace when he learn's that Palpatine is a Sith Lord his first idea is to bring him in for questioning and he is suppose to be the bad mofo of the block So while Yoda could go one one one with Vader and Palpatine, it's the killing part that may not be so easy for him to achieve. It may not be so easy for any Jedi to achieve.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

The PT definitely does not feel the same. That said, I think the bigger problem is the continuity issues. Not only between trilogies, but within them as well. I think it may feel like a spin-off becuase they were made so far apart with such a huge difference in technologies.

Whatever the reason, I think brining them closer together is a good idea. Fix the continuity/plot hole issues and make them vuisually more alike. If that means updating the OT a bit while at the same time making the PT look a bit older, so be it.



But my issue is that many people place blame completely on the PT or the OT. There are issues between trilogies. There are issues within each trilogy. There are even issues within each film. Now is GL's chance to actually fix things in the context of the story in it's entirety (at least in terms of the films). He should do so.

Here's the thing. In my opinion, just about every movie ever made has some level of plot holes or inconsistencies to some degree, some more so than others. In fact, (and again, in my opinion) it's probably almost impossible for a writer to avoid them entirely. And I won't try to deny for a second that the original trilogy does indeed have some. What matters though in the long run is if the story, characters and action are rich, entertaining and engaging enough that you simply don't mind them and that said plot holes and inconsistencies are small and inconsequential enough that they don't pull you out of the experience. The original trilogy succeeded in those regards whereas the prequel trilogy failed miserably.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

You can only say that if you haven't seen the Phantom Menace. In this first Star Wars Movie it is established that MidiChlorian Count in Anakins blood is off the chart - which means that his potential to use the force is much larger than in any other Jedi, including Yoda and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan could defeat Vader in Episode 3 only because the Sith made a technical mistake...

ONLY one of Anakins offspring (due to their inherited large Midichlorian count) can be a match to Darth Vader and the Emperor.

And as we seen in ESB and RotJ... Luke was not up to the task either. Vader beat him on Bespin and had Vader not turned on the Emperor, Luke would have died on the second Death Star. Luke only took Vader's hand after Vader enraged Luke by brining up Leia. So in all reality, Luke only defeated Vader because he (Vader) again made a technical/tactical mistake. So again, if the plan was to defeat Vader & Palpatine... Because of experience, training and a lot of other reasons, even with a high Midiclorian count, Luke was a bad Plan-A.

[Mr. Cinema]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this massive thread, but the HD Room is reporting that the release date has been moved up to Friday, September 16.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

Yup, that scene always bothered me too. It's as if Ben knows nothing of Leia. Yet he goes on to later explain to Luke that Leia is his Sister and why they were seperated. I never bought that Ben wasn't aware of Leia.

Hmmm... I like the idea of not knowing Anakin is Vader. Too bad we can't unlearn what we already know. Unfortunately, with the OT being made first, we learn that Luke's Father's name was Anakin in RotJ. So even if they never show Palpatine dubbing Anakin as Darth Vader or show Anakin in the suit...

My idea was this:
We see Anakin should turn to the dark side. Obi-Wan goes to turn him back to the light side. Anakin and Obi duel, and Ani realizes his mistake and that he was lied to by Palpatine.
As Obi and Ani leave the volcano they wound up fighting on (obi in front leading the way) the volcano erupts and breaks apart and takes Ani away in the Lava River. Ani is presumed dead. Obi goes to look for Ani but only finds the Saber.
(this would've happened early in episode 3 or Late episode 2.)
Later on, there is talk among Jedi about a Black cloaked "thing" that seems to be hunting Jedi and can use the force, we then see Vader on another planet take out 3 Jedi at one time.
Everyone rightly gueses that this is a new Sith Lord, but Obi without saying anything realizes what and who he really is.
We see Order 66 being carried out, Palpatine sends out assassins after Padme.
Vader (NOT knowing she's pregnant, Paplatine does though) in a Star Destroyer also is following her accross the galaxy, and it looks like he is trying to kill her, but unknownst to everyone is trying to save her, bounty Hunter, Obi & Yoda, rebellion and Empire all converge in an epic battle and Padme get hurt, Obi takes Luke and Leaves, Leia born after Obi Leave, yoda gives Leia to Organa (we do NOT see that) Padme is shown to die, Vader feels her die and freaks out and destroys all the Bounty Hunters ships through the force and by imperials, only Star Destroyer and Tantive survive, Vader lets tantive go knowing Padme is on it and that she will be buried on Naboo.
Palpatine sences her die also and assumes the baby (babies) died as well.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Yeah.. they look way different. I would have appreciated a little less CGI for more realism and for the actors' sake but that's just me...

Do you mean like removing Ben's line, "I thought I could teach him like Yoda taught me," for improving continuity? I was very disappointed to find that Obi-Wan wasn't Yoda's pupil (in a way he was but not in any kind of special way that was implied) in the PT and a new character was invented for that. Like the RLM reviews stated, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan should have been combined into one character named Obi-Wan.

Forget that, Liam is Awesome!!!!

[JamesKurtovich]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

You can only say that if you haven't seen the Phantom Menace. In this first Star Wars Movie it is established that MidiChlorian Count in Anakins blood is off the chart - which means that his potential to use the force is much larger than in any other Jedi, including Yoda and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan could defeat Vader in Episode 3 only because the Sith made a technical mistake...

ONLY one of Anakins offspring (due to their inherited large Midichlorian count) can be a match to Darth Vader and the Emperor.

Potential doesn't mean much unless you live up to it. Anakin lost because of lack of experience and that he was only equal to Ben in terms of strength (a Jedi with a much smaller count of midichlorians I would think)... Yoda probably would have defeated Anakin much sooner if they had dueled instead but I seriously doubt Ben could have handled the Emperor considering the hard time he had with Dooku.

It's something I wonder about too but it's the story and it's what SW is. Could either Yoda or Ben have easily tracked down and destroyed Vader any time they wanted to? Of course... Could Ben and Yoda partnered up together and defeated Palpatine? Yes. But then we wouldn't have had the OT.

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Nah! I see that as just a easy way out. In reality Yoda could taken Vader and Palpatine, he as some nasty moves

The problem is killing. When you spend a thousand years saying that a Jedi favor's life over killing, that leave's a mark somewhere. Think about this. How many Jedi do we see killing sentient beings in the movies? First Ben kill's Darth Maul in a moment of anger because of the loss of his master. He flirted with the Dark side at that moment. Then he later kill's Grevious who you can argue is more a machine then a man at that point. What else? Anakin kill's Dooku to begin his path on the Dark side. Did I forget something? Mostly you see Jedi turning robots into scrap metal and that is all. Killing is just not into the nature of Jedi. Even Mace when he learn's that Palpatine is a Sith Lord his first idea is to bring him in for questioning and he is suppose to be the bad mofo of the block So while Yoda could go one one one with Vader and Palpatine, it's the killing part that may not be so easy for him to achieve. It may not be so easy for any Jedi to achieve.

In the end fighting was not the solution...
Only Luke was able to turn Anakin back to the light side and make him fulfill the prophecy. Maybe Yoda and Obi Wan thought Luke was the chosen one even though he (Luke) wasn´t.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by JamesKurtovich

Yeah.. they look way different. I would have appreciated a little less CGI for more realism and for the actors' sake but that's just me...

Do you mean like removing Ben's line, "I thought I could teach him like Yoda taught me," for improving continuity? I was very disappointed to find that Obi-Wan wasn't Yoda's pupil (in a way he was but not in any kind of special way that was implied) in the PT and a new character was invented for that. I agree when Plinkett said that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan should have been combined into one character named Obi-Wan since I can't think of a reason for Qui-Gon existing except for providing a sad death at the end.

Sorry, that wasn't the line. When talking to Luke, Ben said he thought he could instruct Anakin as well as Yoda, but he was wrong. He did not imply that Yoda was his teacher at that point. That came in Empire, when Luke was freezing on Hoth. At that time Ben's spirit told Luke to go to Dagobah where he would "learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me (Ben).

That said, I agree with what you say about being disappointed that Ben was not Yoda's direct Padawan. Still, I loved Qui-Gon. I wish more had been made of that character. His casting was perfect.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

In the end fighting was not the solution...
Only Luke was able to turn Anakin back to the light side and therefore fulfill the prophecy. Maybe Yoda and Obi Wan thought Luke was the chosen one even though he wasn´t.

One could make an argument for either Skywalker to be the Chosen One but personally I think it's Anakin, he did a lot more for both sides than Luke ever did.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

In the end fighting was not the solution...
Only Luke was able to turn Anakin back to the light side and therefore fulfill the prophecy. Maybe Yoda and Obi Wan thought Luke was the chosen one even though he wasn´t.

Anakin is the chosen one. Like it or not he did bring balance to the Force. The Jedi were old and starting to lose their edge after a thousand years of sitting around doing nothing. They needed to be kick in the butt a bit

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Anakin is the chosen one. Like it or not he did bring balance to the Force. The Jedi were old and starting to lose their edge after a thousand years of sitting around doing nothing. They needed to be kick in the butt a bit

A bit? Every single significant Jedi except Obi-Wan or Yoda was killed or forced into hiding or turned to the dark side of the Force! A bit?!

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this massive thread, but the HD Room is reporting that the release date has been moved up to Friday, September 16.

Everyone saw this news, right?

[JamesKurtovich]

The Jedi seemed pretty active to me. They became really stupid and content though, probably due to the years of peace they had.

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

And as we seen in ESB and RotJ... Luke was not up to the task either. Vader beat him on Bespin and had Vader not turned on the Emperor, Luke would have died on the second Death Star. Luke only took Vader's hand after Vader enraged Luke by brining up Leia. So in all reality, Luke only defeated Vader because he (Vader) again made a technical/tactical mistake. So again, if the plan was to defeat Vader & Palpatine... Because of experience, training and a lot of other reasons, even with a high Midiclorian count, Luke was a bad Plan-A.

Obi Wan and Yoda are not just simple soldiers that want to bring down the Empire. First of all they want to help realize the "will of the force". The annihilation of the Jedi Order is a product of the shift in the living force and has a meaning in the big picture. That the twins are born in the same moment Anakin becomes Darth Vader is a sign that Obi Wan and Yoda follow up upon.
Having a high midichlorian count doesn't necessarily make you the greatest "fighter". It makes it easier to hear the "will of the force" through which Luke gets the idea that it may be possible to bring his father back from the Dark Side.

[kamphausd1]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I can only guess but maybe it's because you are not reading when people are posting

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

All joking aside, Lucas is not going around destroying all copies of the old version so please stop saying that.

Okay, thanks p@t, I never said he was going around destroying every copy of the original version.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

All he is doing is refusing to release them into the new home video format.

Right, he's not letting them be presented or preserved in the new format for future generations to enjoy, which in a way does constitute him suppressing them.

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

People still have their VHS and Laserdisc version. When he is going from house to house with the 501th legion asking for every copy people own and throw them into a bond fire, then I will agree with you.

He doesn't have to throw them into a bond fire, because he knows that they will deteriorate over time and be unwatchable. And as I already said before, who the hell want's to watch VHS and laserdisc in this day and age? All classic films should be preserved, restored and presented in the highest quality possible for everybody to enjoy, which is one of the best things about blu ray. Seriously, how many more people are going to use the whole "well, they're still there on VHS and laserdisc" argument?