Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by kenkraly2004

Their will be info in issue #126 of star wars insider on the blu-ray box set the july / august issue.

How do you know ?

[Mahatma]

Originally Posted by STARSCREAM

I also wish he would put back that line about R2 back in. I loved the "you're lucky you don't taste very good" line after R2 got spit out by the Dagobah swamp monster.

Anybody know why he took that away?Just Lucas,or some obscure reason...Can understand the political correctness of Han not shooting first (Think it's ridicilous,but it is understandable from a certain point of view ),but taking away that line makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me.Anyone?

[kenkraly2004]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

How do you know ?

I subscribe to the magazine and if you look at star wars insider's twitter page they have cover previews of their upcoming issues at their twitter feed.

[nametag]

Originally Posted by Imrahil2001

So the fact that the transfer is non-anamorphic and 20 years old is "okay"? How "okay" would you be if that's what we were getting on blu? It's a nonsensical argument, Beast, and you're a fool for continually promoting it.

+1

It's like saying, "well we've destroyed the Mona Lisa, but it's not really been destroyed because we've got a few 1/10th-scale jpegs of it floating around on google images!"

Home video has been, prior to blu-ray, a distorted and vastly minimized version of the source, which is the film. Physical film may not last forever, especially if not looked after, but if new technology is utilised you can make almost exact digital representations of it which would, essentially, preserve that source as best possible. That's what's not being done.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

It will be interesting to see the new cuts. We can't say until we've seen them, but I am all for the additional Han/Leia scene in ESB - them just suddenly being a couple is a bit abrupt as it stands, another scene would really add to that. However, not sold on the scene before Jabba's with Luke though - we'll have to see (the kind of mysterious opening of ROTJ works as it stands, will be interested to see what this changes in tone).

I didn't know there was a cut Han/Leia scene! What is it?

I wasn't going to comment on the "release the UOT" argument anymore, but I was watching the movies again (a very well made fan conversion that bests the official non-anamorphic release) and I was thinking about the Blu-Ray release.

What is interesting about the "Star Wars Saga" now is Lucas' intended order of the films. Essentially, he presents the films to be watched from the beginning chronologically-- (Episodes I-VI). This retroactively removes I-III as "prequels," and changes the originals into "sequels." As far as I know, this has never been done before.

The problem is that his 2004 alterations (aside from further effects tweaks) are designed to further integrate themselves with the prequels. Where this is most effected is the finale of Jedi, where the younger Hayden-Anakin appears at the end. I can understand why this change was done-- if you're watching the films starting at Episode I, it offers a more satisfying dramatic conclusion to the "saga."

However, the drama and heart of the ending is lost if you're attempting to watch the classic trilogy in and of itself, or even if you're just choosing to watch the OT first and then go to the prequels afterward, as was the experience of everyone back when these films were first coming out. Imagine watching the films this way with someone who hasn't seen them before. When Hayden appears it is more of a "who is that?" kind of moment. It doesn't really work dramatically.

Therefore, I find that selling the Classic Trilogy separately on Blu-Ray is kind of pointless, because the versions of the films they are using aren't really designed to be watched by themselves-- they are sequels to Episode I-III.

Okay, I just wanted to get that out there. I'm really done with the whole argument now. The UOT will either be released some day or it won't-- fans bickering about it on either side is a waste of time.

[kenkraly2004]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I wasn't going to comment on the "release the UOT" argument anymore, but I was watching the movies again (a very well made fan conversion that bests the official non-anamorphic release) and I was thinking about the Blu-Ray release.

What is interesting about the "Star Wars Saga" now is Lucas' intended order of the films. Essentially, he presents the films to be watched from the beginning chronologically-- (Episodes I-VI). This retroactively removes I-III as "prequels," and changes the originals into "sequels." As far as I know, this has never been done before.

The problem is that his 2004 alterations (aside from further effects tweaks) are designed to further integrate themselves with the prequels. Where this is most effected is the finale of Jedi, where the younger Hayden-Anakin appears at the end. I can understand why this change was done-- if you're watching the films starting at Episode I, it offers a more satisfying dramatic conclusion to the "saga."

However, the drama and heart of the ending is lost if you're attempting to watch the classic trilogy in and of itself, or even if you're just choosing to watch the OT first and then go to the prequels afterward, as was the experience of everyone back when these films were first coming out. Imagine watching the films this way with someone who hasn't seen them before. When Hayden appears it is more of a "who is that?" kind of moment. It doesn't really work dramatically.

Therefore, I find that selling the Classic Trilogy separately on Blu-Ray is kind of pointless, because the versions of the films they are using aren't really designed to be watched by themselves-- they are sequels to Episode I-III.

Okay, I just wanted to get that out there. I'm really done with the whole argument now. The UOT will either be released some day or it won't-- fans bickering about it on either side is a waste of time.

Agreed It's one 6 part story not 2 different trilogy's. I like all the versions of the films and to me it's one complete saga.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I didn't know there was a cut Han/Leia scene! What is it?

I wasn't going to comment on the "release the UOT" argument anymore, but I was watching the movies again (a very well made fan conversion that bests the official non-anamorphic release) and I was thinking about the Blu-Ray release.

What is interesting about the "Star Wars Saga" now is Lucas' intended order of the films. Essentially, he presents the films to be watched from the beginning chronologically-- (Episodes I-VI). This retroactively removes I-III as "prequels," and changes the originals into "sequels." As far as I know, this has never been done before.

The problem is that his 2004 alterations (aside from further effects tweaks) are designed to further integrate themselves with the prequels. Where this is most effected is the finale of Jedi, where the younger Hayden-Anakin appears at the end. I can understand why this change was done-- if you're watching the films starting at Episode I, it offers a more satisfying dramatic conclusion to the "saga."

However, the drama and heart of the ending is lost if you're attempting to watch the classic trilogy in and of itself, or even if you're just choosing to watch the OT first and then go to the prequels afterward, as was the experience of everyone back when these films were first coming out. Imagine watching the films this way with someone who hasn't seen them before. When Hayden appears it is more of a "who is that?" kind of moment. It doesn't really work dramatically.

Therefore, I find that selling the Classic Trilogy separately on Blu-Ray is kind of pointless, because the versions of the films they are using aren't really designed to be watched by themselves-- they are sequels to Episode I-III.

Okay, I just wanted to get that out there. I'm really done with the whole argument now. The UOT will either be released some day or it won't-- fans bickering about it on either side is a waste of time.

Not that I care all that much about this stuff and I think the issue of the never again to be released theatrical version of the OT has been beaten to death (how many times do we need to argue the same thing?), but I disagree with your assumption that the films are now meant to be watched only in Episode order. There have been previous threads on the "ideal" order for watching. IIRC, a lot of people thought the ideal order was IV, V, I, II, III, VI.

Look at "The Godfather" films. Just because the story of Vito Corleone was told in Godfather II, doesn't mean that film should now be watched first. When "The Godfather" films were re-edited for television and the scenes reordered into strict chronological order, both the critics and Coppola felt the film was far less effective, which is why that edit is no longer available (in spite of the fact that it included extra scenes beyond the extra scenes that are included as extras on the current release.)

In fact, while some would consider this heresy, an interesting edit of Star Wars would be to reedit the films and cut back and forth between the story of Anakin and the story of Luke, emphasizing the parallels and how each reacted differently to similar situations. But putting that aside for the moment, I always thought it was more interesting to watch the Luke story first and wonder how Darth Vader came to be and then find out with the prequels, in spite of their numerous faults.

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by nametag

+1
It's like saying, "well we've destroyed the Mona Lisa, but it's not really been destroyed because we've got a few 1/10th-scale jpegs of it floating around on google images!"

No, it´s like saying DaVinci is not allowed to finish his Mona Lisa painting because you like the underpainting so much. And DaVinci has to hang the finished Mona Lisa next to the unfinished version in a museum.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Not that I care all that much about this stuff and I think the issue of the never again to be released theatrical version of the OT has been beaten to death (how many times do we need to argue the same thing?), but I disagree with your assumption that the films are now meant to be watched only in Episode order. There have been previous threads on the "ideal" order for watching. IIRC, a lot of people thought the ideal order was IV, V, I, II, III, VI.

Look at "The Godfather" films. Just because the story of Vito Corleone was told in Godfather II, doesn't mean that film should now be watched first. When "The Godfather" films were re-edited for television and the scenes reordered into strict chronological order, both the critics and Coppola felt the film was far less effective, which is why that edit is no longer available (in spite of the fact that it included extra scenes beyond the extra scenes that are included as extras on the current release.)

In fact, while some would consider this heresy, an interesting edit of Star Wars would be to reedit the films and cut back and forth between the story of Anakin and the story of Luke, emphasizing the parallels and how each reacted differently to similar situations. But putting that aside for the moment, I always thought it was more interesting to watch the Luke story first and wonder how Darth Vader came to be and then find out with the prequels, in spite of their numerous faults.

I pretty much agree with what you said-- but I didn't want to imply that I thought the movies should be watched chronologically (the only prequel I even like at all is Ep. III)-- I'm saying that's how Lucas views the film order. He even withheld using the iconic lightspeed imagery (with the stars blazing forward) in the prequels so that it would be "revealed" in Episode IV.

My argument is that the classic trilogy (mostly due to the finale) doesn't work dramatically as films by themselves anymore with the current versions, which is why I think maintaining the UOT is important (among other reasons). For the record, watching them as IV, V, I-III, then VI would maintain the dramatic cohesion of watching the films chronologically. The point is that if you don't watch the prequels before Jedi, the conclusion loses it's emotional catharsis because you weren't following the prequel trilogy with young Anakin beforehand. So when Hayden appears it doesn't work (in my opinion, of course).

[whbinder]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

No, it´s like saying DaVinci is not allowed to finish his Mona Lisa painting because you like the underpainting so much. And DaVinci has to hang the finished Mona Lisa next to the unfinished version in a museum.

If Da Vinci's underpainting for "The Mona Lisa" was "The Last Supper", and if "The Mona Lisa" wasn't actually a new painting of a woman, but just "The Last Supper" with new diciples and Jesus was now offering bread to Judas .... well then yes, it's just like that.

[nametag]

Originally Posted by shelldweller

No, it´s like saying DaVinci is not allowed to finish his Mona Lisa painting because you like the underpainting so much. And DaVinci has to hang the finished Mona Lisa next to the unfinished version in a museum.

No, because if it was an underpainting it wouldn't've been released to the public for millions of people to see. The 'they weren't finished!' argument is a ridiculous excuse - once art gets released to the public it becomes less about the artist creating, and more about the audience and culture that consumes it and that shouldn't be ignored.

As for the 'two trilogies' argument, I see the point, but I still think that any franchises will have films people like more than others and I guess if someone likes the OT/sequels more than the prequels they'll just be happy with just one trilogy? I don't think those people will lose loads of enjoyment if they don't see the prequels alongside/before them, the OT still makes sense as it's own story, I think. I am going to get both myself, because I'm a bit of a completist and did grow up with the prequels, but I can understand someone just wanting one or the other and not wanting to spend more for all 6.

[dcowboy7]

Originally Posted by kenkraly2004

I subscribe to the magazine and if you look at star wars insider's twitter page they have cover previews of their upcoming issues at their twitter feed.

Yea they posted:

"Also in #StarWars Insider 126, the special features for Star Wars on Blu-Ray will be revealed!"

June 15 its out.

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

By the way, does the new Lucasfilm Animation building in Singapore remind you of anything?

He's using jawas to do the work so he can save money!

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

I agree except that, well, discussing the contents of this release which is already out there is a "ship that has sailed" too. We know what we are getting. So, its only natural to discuss the fiolms themselves and/or content.

In other words, threads get dull quick if we just discuss bit rates, audio codecs, and film versions, especially when we already know all of that.

+1. I stopped visiting the Uncle Buck thread because all people were doing was complaining about lossless audio. Or the Back To The Future thread where everyone just complains about the packaging. I guess what I'm saying is people are just as likely to argue back and forth about the Blu-Ray as they are about the movie itself.

[PeterTHX]

They really need to lock this thread because it's the same exact arguments as before dredged up again and again. Nobody's changing their mind either way.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

+1. I stopped visiting the Uncle Buck thread because all people were doing was complaining about lossless audio. Or the Back To The Future thread where everyone just complains about the packaging. I guess what I'm saying is people are just as likely to argue back and forth about the Blu-Ray as they are about the movie itself.

Good point. When the BDs come out, there'll be more whinging and moaning than you guys can possibly imagine, not least if LFL unleash any more 'creative changes', i.e. complete ****-ups.

[AintNoSin]

Originally Posted by Beast

Other than the fact that there are copies available. Betamax, VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD. And others.

On a forum dedicated to Blu-ray, that's essentially saying it's unavailable. Your book analogy doesn't wash either. Saying that those versions are available because they exist on those medieval formats is like saying that a book is in print because you can still get the Reader's Digest condensed edition.

"Yes," you say, "but the (non-anamorphic half-arsed) DVD version contains every frame of the original film, so it's nothing like a condensed book."

But what of all the missing pixels and lost audio resolution on those antique formats? BD has 6 pixels of visual information for every pixel on a DVD.

When I come to this forum saying I want a film, it means I want those extra 1.7 million pixels on Blu-ray, not some Jurassic-era technology I have to source from ebay (and keep an antique player around just to watch it). If, for example, they had only released the Redux version of Apocalypse Now on BD, and I said, "It's okay, the theatrical version is out on DVD and Laserdisc," I would deserve every rude thing anyone said to me.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

They really need to lock this thread because it's the same exact arguments as before dredged up again and again. Nobody's changing their mind either way.

So stop clicking it.

Our bickering isn't likely to break the internet so why care?

[motorheadache95]

Here's a breakdown of the entire argument:

Pro-UOT:

1) It is a piece of cinematic history and should be maintained/restored etc.
2) George Lucas has spoken out against altering film history in the past, and is therefore a hypocrite.
3) Han's character is changed from not shooting first.
4) The movies are better the way they were because the added cgi sucks.

Pro-Special Edition:

1) It's George's movies to do with as he desires, this is his true vision, etc.
2) He should not spend money on restoring inferior workprints if he doesn't want to.
3) The people who want the originals is a small, whiny minority of fanboys who cry "rape"
4) The movies are better the way they are now because the old effects suck.

The End.

[Jumpman]

Pretty good summary.