Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

I agree they should be special.

Funny how cast members from the original films have had nothing nice to say about the PT though. A co worker who collects autographs was at a comic con some years ago and Anthony Daniels was there. So my friend gives him a picture to sign (one with a half built 3po from TPM as it was all he had) Daniels looks at him and says do you like these newer films? And my friend says well not really...and Daniels says I know what you mean.

[bullets]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

That Plinkett dude is a complete and utter joke. Has been discussed before.

You guys didn't like the negativity so you dismiss him entirely, lol. His reviews are mostly humorous but he has plenty of valid points.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by bullets

You guys didn't like the negativity so you dismiss him entirely, lol. His reviews are mostly humorous but he has plenty of valid points.

And plenty of non-valid points as well. You can pick apart almost ANY film the way he does. I am not blind to the PT's faults, but I personally can't stand that guy.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Episode III: If anger and fear leads to the dark side, why does Yoda look so angry in each of his “fights”?

I wouldn't describe his expressions as anger, but fierce determination. He knows very well the Sith are evil, and has devoted himself to stopping them, by any means necessary.

Episode III: If the Jedi can feel changes in the Force, how come they don’t know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord?

This was explained by Mace, who advocated informing the Senate that the Jedi Order's "Force powers" were lessening. Yoda countered that by saying such a confession would multiply the amount of enemies the Jedi currently had.

Episode III: Why does Darth swear his allegiance to the Emperor even after Padame dies? The biggest reason for turning to the dark side was to save her life.

The novelization of "Episode III" details that scene a little better. When Vader is told he killed Padme, he tries using the Force to destroy Palpatine. But due to his body being so badly damaged, his powers are greatly reduced, which is why only the table and droids explode. It's also why he screams, "Nooooo!!!", because he hates what he's become. From that moment forward, Vader's ultimate goal was to replace Palpatine, and rule the galaxy himself.

Episode III and later: If Chewbacca works with Yoda to fight the Empire, how come this role is never mentioned in Episodes IV-VI?

Probably because Lucas didn't think of it at the time, and besides, its not really necessary to the plot.

If Obi Wan knows Chewbacca from 20 years before (although Chewbacca only meets with Yoda in the film), does this mean that Chewbacca is hiding his role in the battles from Han?

You just answered your own question, with the part I put in bold. Lucas had wanted to include a young Han in the events of Episode III, but ultimately never filmed it.

Episode IV: Both the Emperor and Darth Vader “know” that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker. But when the name of Luke Skywalker first comes up, neither brings up the possibility that Luke is Vader’s son. Is Skywalker such a common name in that galaxy?

Lucas fixed this for the 2004 DVDs, with Ian McDiarmid's new hologram scene. In this version, the wording is slightly different, and its implied that Vader already knew of Luke's existence, but was feigning ignorance during his meeting with Palpatine, as part of his goal tp replace the Emperor. This also adds more weight to Vader's proposal to Luke at Cloud City, as he tries getting his son to join him.

Episode IV: What purpose does Obi Wan’s “suicide” serve? He doesn’t become “more powerful” as he tells Darth Vader he would be.

I always assumed the Obi-Wan was referring to spiritual matters with that statement. He knew that, in life, he was limited in the ways he could guide Luke...but as one with the Force, he'd have much more power and influence. There seems to be some limits still in place however, as he tells Luke on Dagobah, "If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere."

Episode IV: Vader tells Obi Wan, “You shouldn’t have come”. Why doesn’t he say, “where have you been for the last 20 years” or “I’m going to kill you for almost burning me to death” or at the very least, "I STILL hate you"?

Once again, such an exchange really isn't that relevant to the story at hand. Its implied that Vader didn't even know Kenobi was still alive, until he sensed his presence on the Death Star.

Episode IV: What is Darth Vader’s motivation for his actions? It’s never expressed. It can’t be to oppose the Jedi or Obi Wan because Obi Wan has been in hiding for at least 20 years and there are no other Jedi, except for Yoda, who isn’t mentioned in Ep IV. Is it to bring order to the Empire? But the only disorder is a small band of rebels. Why does this small band of rebels require the construction of the Death Star?

Well, Vader is mostly Palpatine's "errand boy" in Episode IV. His main missions are to recover the stolen Death Star plans, and destroy the Alliance. His character wasn't really expanded until "The Empire Strikes Back".

Episode IV: How does Obi Wan Kenobi know that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker? Same for Yoda in Ep V. At the end of Ep III, he thinks Anakin is dead. In fact, how does Obi Wan know about Darth Vader? He's been hiding on Luke's planet for 20 years. He would know about the Empire, but not necessarily about Vader. Did the Empire publish a daily propaganda newspaper with stories about its leaders?

Well, Obi-Wan does see Anakin being named as Vader by the Emperor, on a holo-recording in the Jedi Temple, and Yoda confirms this moments later.

Episode V and VI: In Ep V, Yoda insists that Luke not help his friends, but complete his Jedi training instead. Yet when Luke returns in Ep VI to complete his training, Yoda tells him that his training is complete.

Yeah, that one puzzles me a little bit, too.

Episode VI: Chewbacca tells the blind Han Solo that Luke is now a Jedi Knight. But later in the episode, Yoda first informs Luke that he is a Jedi.

Maybe Luke thought he was ready, until Yoda told him otherwise.

And then there are the issues in the OT of why Vader doesn't recognize C3PO and R2D2. Lucas could have solved this by demonstrating in Ep III that when Anakin becomes Vader, his memory is severely impaired, even though he asks about Padame and knows who Obi Wan is in Ep IV.

Well, some have speculated that Vader remembers 3PO, which is why he prevents Boba Fett from shooting him at the carbon-freeze chamber.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by greg_achen

And plenty of non-valid points as well. You can pick apart almost ANY film the way he does. I am not blind to the PT's faults, but I personally can't stand that guy.

You're right about that, but a lot of the plot-holes he picks apart are just the icing on the cake. Even he specifically says in the review that the plot-holes he points out aren't the real problems of the films. The true value of the reviews is breaking down the real story-telling problems. And again I reiterate that you do not have to agree with his assessment, but it is well argued and is anything but fanboy nitpicking. Anyone who says otherwise is simply being willfully ignorant of actual legitimate criticism of the prequels.

[BillieCassin]

Episode V and VI: In Ep V, Yoda insists that Luke not help his friends, but complete his Jedi training instead. Yet when Luke returns in Ep VI to complete his training, Yoda tells him that his training is complete.

That one seems pretty obvious to me. He wasn't referring to training as in the exercises he did with Luke, but his overall training/becoming a Jedi emotionally and physically. It's not like he had to go back to school to get more credits to graduate, but that he was out there in the school of life. It's clear that quite a bit happened between ESB and ROTJ in that vein.

I also have always been of the opinion that "You can't go save your loved ones, you must stay here and keep carrying me around on your back doing gymnastics" as a test. Testing Luke if he cares more about becoming powerful, or his friends and the people he loves. Anakin fell because he loved power, whereas Luke didn't fall into that trap.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

You're right about that, but a lot of the plot-holes he picks apart are just the icing on the cake. Even he specifically says in the review that the plot-holes he points out aren't the real problems of the films. The true value of the reviews is breaking down the real story-telling problems. And again I reiterate that you do not have to agree with his assessment, but it is well argued and is anything but fanboy nitpicking. Anyone who says otherwise is simply being willfully ignorant of actual legitimate criticism of the prequels.

To be honest, I felt like most things were tied up at least semi-satisfactorily, but the one thing I remain completely irritated over is Padme's death. It's the stupidest thing ever. And I love that character (I mean, she is PRINCESS LEIA'S MOTHER!). But her ending just defies all logic.

This strong woman who constantly fought for what she believed in, who just had two children she knew would be powerful and need protection...and she dies...of a broken heart? Over whiny Annie? Those two kids weren't enough for her to hold on and try to work through recovering from her bad marriage?

Honestly, it's dumber than the "let's make Jabba's look like Barney & Friends" music video they shoved into ROTJ.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

You're right about that, but a lot of the plot-holes he picks apart are just the icing on the cake. Even he specifically says in the review that the plot-holes he points out aren't the real problems of the films. The true value of the reviews is breaking down the real story-telling problems. And again I reiterate that you do not have to agree with his assessment, but it is well argued and is anything but fanboy nitpicking. Anyone who says otherwise is simply being willfully ignorant of actual legitimate criticism of the prequels.

That is so so true.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

I also have always been of the opinion that "You can't go save your loved ones, you must stay here and keep carrying me around on your back doing gymnastics" as a test. Testing Luke if he cares more about becoming powerful, or his friends and the people he loves. Anakin fell because he loved power, whereas Luke didn't fall into that trap.

Great point - I never thought about this angle before.

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

To be honest, I felt like most things were tied up at least semi-satisfactorily, but the one thing I remain completely irritated over is Padme's death. It's the stupidest thing ever. And I love that character (I mean, she is PRINCESS LEIA'S MOTHER!). But her ending just defies all logic.

This strong woman who constantly fought for what she believed in, who just had two children she knew would be powerful and need protection...and she dies...of a broken heart? Over whiny Annie? Those two kids weren't enough for her to hold on and try to work through recovering from her bad marriage?

Honestly, it's dumber than the "let's make Jabba's look like Barney & Friends" music video they shoved into ROTJ.

Yeah, it was a little dodgy, wasnt it? They had to have her die though and maybe this was the best way to do it. Having her just get randomly shot or something wasnt gonna work. They could have had her die from injuries sustained from Ani's choking but that would have been borderline disturbing.

Hmmm.... how else could they have killed off Padme?

[whaleman]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

R2D2 wasn't built by Anakin/Vader.
Perhaps you guys should actually sit down and watch these movies instead of tearing them apart at every opportunity.

That's true that I made that mistake but I have seen the movies. And I don't hate them, I actually liked AotC and loved RotS. I just didn't like certain elements of them which is true for most movies.

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

You mean stuff like this?

Obi Wan in A New Hope - "For over a thousand generations the jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the old Republic."

Bail organa in RoTS -"We can not let a thousand years of democracy disappear"

The Emperor in RoTS - "I will not let a Republic that has stood for a thousand years be split in two."

Now I am not sure but I am willing to bet that 1000 generations and 1000 years are not even in the same ball park!

I hope George will go back and actually watch the OT now and fix either the OT or the PT.

Now hold on here.

Haven't you been one of the main ones complaining about changes to the OT and how it changes film history because you cannot purchase the UOT for home viewing?

Now you are asking that GL change something?

[miniroll32]

[Uxi]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

This was explained by Mace, who advocated informing the Senate that the Jedi Order's "Force powers" were lessening. Yoda countered that by saying such a confession would multiply the amount of enemies the Jedi currently had.

Nowhere in Star Wars have Jedi and Sith ever immediately noticed each other like Highlander. Vader only had a vague hunch that Obi-wan was nearby and if he hadn't had a close relationship and been familiar with Obi-wan's "presence" he probably wouldn't have put it together at all. So unless Darth Sidious is blasting someone with lightning, there's nothing for the Jedi Spidey Sense to go off.

But yeah, as noted, the Mace and Yoda explicitly discuss that their ability to use the Force has been diminished (presumably by the imbalance in the Force created by the Dark Lord of the Sith)

Probably because Lucas didn't think of it at the time, and besides, its not really necessary to the plot.

Chewie [translated]: "Yeah, 20 years ago, I fought in the Clone Wars to liberate my homeworld and there was this little green frog-like Jedi Master..."

Han: "Yeah, that's interesting, just fix the hyperdrive!"

Well, Vader is mostly Palpatine's "errand boy" in Episode IV. His main missions are to recover the stolen Death Star plans, and destroy the Alliance. His character wasn't really expanded until "The Empire Strikes Back".

He was also there to make sure Tarkin didn't get any funny and overly ambitious ideas.

Yeah, that one puzzles me a little bit, too.


Maybe Luke thought he was ready, until Yoda told him otherwise.

Luke looks like a Jedi, acts like a Jedi, uses Jedi weapon, and can use the Force. To everyone else, he is a Jedi. To Yoda, he's still a half trained whiny farmboy... until he faces Vader.

Well, some have speculated that Vader remembers 3PO, which is why he prevents Boba Fett from shooting him at the carbon-freeze chamber.

We discussed this one, too. There are probably tens of thousands of 3P0 droids. Even if 3P0 didn't have his memory wiped, it would be like seeing a yellow '68 Camaro you owned 20 years ago. It's much more likely Vader thought "that looks just like my old droid" rather than "OMG, my 3PO??!11!1one!"

Or does anyone really expect Vader to "all right, stop the carbon freezing! I just saw a droid that could be like one I used to own years ago." Does Darth Vader in that time frame of his life REALLY seem like the sentimental type?

[Bluyoda]

UXI Agreed.

Perhaps, Lucas is going to include a version for the ones, who need everything spelled out for them?

Seriously, it would have been lame it had explained everything.

Some people can think and have imagination too.

[The Apocalypse]

tbh when this comes out, I'll go for a marathon. Either the complete saga, or one trilogy at a time. Afterwards, it's the extras.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

Chewbacca was not needed in RoTS much like Worf (or his grandfather) in The Undiscovered Country.

In both cases though, if you are going to have a character playing those roles anyways, why not have a little fun and tie it in? You could have generic klingon number 6 or you can have Michael Dorn and have a little fun with it. My problem is when they create a role for someone just so they can do that. One rumor from way back was that you would see a young Han Solo in "Sith", much like you saw Greedo in "Menace". That would be a waste as it doesn't really advance the story. But having Chewie or Tarkin in "Sith" wasn't bad since they were mixed into the story and didn't have a "hey, look at me, I'm from the original trilogy" moment. Some of the other connections they created (Anakin creating 3P0, Boba Fett being a clone of Jango, etc) are questionable, and then their idea to remove some connections (i.e. a specific ship/captain from the end of "Sith" and the beginning of "New Hope") is even more questionable.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by octagon

Sure, that can be assumed but reasonably? I dunno. Even if the crawl had read 'in small, small galaxy far, far away' Chewbacca being a speeder ride away when Obi-Wan needed a quick getaway is a bit convenient, no?

I agree with you about it being convenient as presented because we don't ever get access to scenes leading up to their meeting at the cantina. This is why I wish there was a series similar to Clone Wars that would take place over the 20 years between III and IV. Those stories could easily, and creatively tie together the missing information between the 2 trilogies.

Originally Posted by octagon

Chewie knowing Obi-Wan for twenty+ years also puts an odd light on Han's 'Where did you did up that old fossil' line. Did Chewbacca just grunt words to the effect of 'Hey, boss, we have a fare. Just some guy. Never saw him before, didn't fight any wars with him or anything'?

Well in all fairness, we don't know if Chewbacca ever saw Obi-Wan before or ever fought with him. We never saw them meet before IV and they never fought together. But who knows what went down over those 20 years so your point still applies.

Originally Posted by octagon

What I don't get it is why people sometime seem so hell-bent on rationalizing every single one of those inconsistencies. Instead of engaging in all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to perfectly mesh the two trilogies I don't know why people don't just say 'eh, yeah, that one doesn't really track...whattayagonnado'.

There are extremists on both sides and it's not fair to point out only one. Because we also have the people who seem hell-bent on picking out every. Little. Detail. And calling them out as a plot holes. Including details that aren't even accurate ("You mother was wise to hide her from me") that fans feel the need to correct it. So it's a cycle that continues because of both sides.

Originally Posted by octagon

For instance, does anybody really believe Anakin would have no idea his wife was carrying twins?

Of course not.

Does it really matter?

Eh, whattayagonnado.

Hey, I don't believe that a woman could deliver a baby not knowing she was pregnant for nine months, but ya know what? There's a story like that in the news every few months. So who can say for sure that Anakin wouldn't know he had twins. Would it have solved the problem if it had just been stated in the movie? Sure. But crazier things have happened in real life that Anakin and Padme not knowing they were going to have twins doesn't bother me.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Scooter1836

Now hold on here.

Haven't you been one of the main ones complaining about changes to the OT and how it changes film history because you cannot purchase the UOT for home viewing?

Now you are asking that GL change something?

I did? I never....

[chip75]

Here's the concept art for Han Solo for Revenge of the Sith from The Art of The Revenge of the Sith.

707.jpg

708.jpg

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by chip75

Here's the concept art for Han Solo for Revenge of the Sith from The Art of The Revenge of the Sith.

Attachment 34099

Attachment 34100

God I am so glad they didnt go there....that would have really ruined Han Solo.