Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by earmullet

Wait, then your implying that one would also have to enjoy the movie. We can't have that, can we?

Just enjoying movies is so 1980's...this is the 21st century we have to pick them apart with our Internet skills using screen shots made by other Internet expert

[Chordata]

This thread makes me sad.

[earmullet]

Originally Posted by adywan

Sorry to say but if they have just increased the gamma to brighten the image then it certainly isn't a fix as this will cause more problems than it is trying to fix. And it certainly won't look better. It will bring out all sorts of imperfections within the image. It may look better to some in a still picture but in motion, this type of gamma increase will bring out all the video noise. The crushed blacks will still be there though. That image of Luke vs Vader from ESB; look at the dark area at the bottom of the screen. Look at all that noise that has been brought out. This isn't film noise but video noise and that will look horrendous in motion. You can't recover lost detail in crushed blacks with a simple gamma change. The detail in the dark areas of that shot that you think are no longer crushed blacks have always been there but the gamm increase has brought them out, but where the blacks are indeed crushed, which would be a block of pixels, will still be there and will stick out in motion. But another side effect is increasing gamma can make dark areas can look red/ brown when they should be dark. Look at the death star in the blu-ray image. That looks terrible.


Now the footage shown at Comic Con is almost certainly from the Blu-Rays. Now here is a screen grab from the direct video shown (not from a video camera but the actual video shown direct from the source). Now it does look like they have increased the gamma. But there are NO colour changes at all. The bottom picture is from the 2004 transfer with the slight gamma increase. The same.

So, if this is any indication, then all the people convinced that the colours will be fixed are going to be sorely disappointed.

I want to see this same comparison with Ridley Scott's Blade Runner, because they changed the color timing for that blu ray release as well. People hailed that as a beautiful transfer and with Star Wars, it seems to be the total reversal.

[shelldweller]

Originally Posted by adywan

Ok, so you are getting personal now just because i can actually provide proof that if they go down the gamma increase route it will make the image look worse, provide proof that the colouring of the 2004 DVDs was not how the films have ever looked and i am not worhipping at Lucas' heels. And don't go down the "you are paranoid" route because that was a direct dig at my edits by calling it "revisited". I would really like to know what you are trying to prove by posting those pictures because it only goes to prove just how immature you really are and that you have no idea what you are even talking about. So is that supposed to represent what i am doing with my colour correction for Revisited? Pathetic. You are so far off it is unbelievable. Why is it that you and shaft_windu feel the need to attack what i do when it has no bearing whatsoever on the discussion in here? The only "haters" i ever see in here are you two. How come everyone else can have a civil discussion about this yet you both only seem to come out with snide comments?

maybe if you did some research about the colouring of these movies instead of blindly saying "its how it is supposed to be", then maybe people would be able to take your rants more seriously. So Hoth is supposed to be Blue is it? Well yes it is, but in the 2004 transfers everything is cyan, not Blue. Areas that should be white are now cyan thanks to the tint added. Proof:

Now please tell me that the 2004 versions colour is "how it should be". The image taken from the 1997 version of the Special Edition matches the colour references from an actual print that i have access to.

I'm not just spouting off that the colours of the 2004 special editions are way off, unlike some who say that there is nothing wrong with them because they are as they should be. I, along with many others, have done a lot of research into how these films originally looked. George himself wanted the Special Editions to look exactly like they did when they were first released and the 1997 versions are the closest to the original colouring than any other home video release.

You really think that they use photoshop to colour correct these films?

Please don´t attack me.

All I´m saying is that we have to reserve our judgement until we see some actual footage of the scenes with incorrect color timing. If there is acually anything wrong with it, I´m the first one to complain. You are right that there are some indication that they used the 2004 scans... that does not mean that the Blu-Rays are going to look bad.

The reason for the "revisited" was just to show that you can manipulate pretty much anything to your personal taste.... even in good transfers like Inception. It´s nothing personal. It´s just that many people believe that the "revisited" versions are actually an improvement which in my opinion they are not.. again nothing personal.

[HD Goofnut]

This has become the vent thread for this forum apparently. Also, no one even attempted to answer my question that I posted last night.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Just enjoying movies is so 1980's...this is the 21st century we have to pick them apart with our Internet skills using screen shots made by other Internet expert

*Snerks* Or create so-called "fan-edits" where you proceed to make changes and tweaks while still complaining about the creator doing so.

[Merlinpants]

In support of Adywan, check out these shots from:

http://savestarwars.com/specialeditionfail.html

blockade-runnercomparison.jpg

Then, if it is all about making the saga consistent, how would you explain the colour of the same ship from ROTS. Clearly colour tinting from 2004 is an issue.

blockade-epiii.jpg

Otherwise, why would the DVD release of ROTS not have a blue tint to the blockade runner?

[Shaft Windu]

Originally Posted by Beast

*Snerks* Or create so-called "fan-edits" where you proceed to make changes and tweaks while still complaining about the creator doing so.

Exactly! That's the fine line between a critic and a hypocrite. What exactly is GOUT supposed to mean, by the way?

[Rblu-Dblu]

So I take it no one is going to buy this then?

[Merlinpants]

Originally Posted by Shaft Windu

Exactly! That's the fine line between a critic and a hypocrite. What exactly is GOUT supposed to mean, by the way?

Georges Original Unaltered Trilogy, as in the 2006 DVD releases containg the original films 'unaltered' as bonus features.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

Georges Original Unaltered Trilogy, as in the 2006 DVD releases containg the original films 'unaltered' as bonus features.

In glorious non-anamorphic SD.

[Chordata]

Originally Posted by Rblu-Dblu

So I take it no one is going to buy this then?

I've already pre-ordered it. There's no amount of screenshot comparisons that some dorks on the Internet created that will keep me from doing so. I've bought them on every format except for Laserdisc, and I'll buy them in 3D if I ever take that silly plunge.

These are my favorite movies. Greedo shooting first, screenshots, disc art, and packaging won't change that.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

I've already pre-ordered it. There's no amount of screenshot comparisons that some dorks on the Internet created that will keep me from doing so. I've bought them on every format except for Laserdisc, and I'll buy them in 3D if I ever take that silly plunge.

These are my favorite movies. Greedo shooting first, screenshots, disc art, and packaging won't change that.

+1 to that. I have bought every incarnation of Star Wars in the past except for Laserdisc and I am not about to stop now.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

Georges Original Unaltered Trilogy, as in the 2006 DVD releases containg the original films 'unaltered' as bonus features.

Did they really need to add a G? Did they forget the film series was created by George Lucas? OUT wasn't enough?

Dante Hicks: "And this whole stupid building in the shape of an L. Why? In case you forget your initials?"

Leonardo Leonardo: "That was uncalled for."

[HandyDandy]

Originally Posted by O_V_N

I've already pre-ordered it. There's no amount of screenshot comparisons that some dorks on the Internet created that will keep me from doing so. I've bought them on every format except for Laserdisc, and I'll buy them in 3D if I ever take that silly plunge.

These are my favorite movies. Greedo shooting first, screenshots, disc art, and packaging won't change that.

+100
I'm with you also.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Beast

*Snerks* Or create so-called "fan-edits" where you proceed to make changes and tweaks while still complaining about the creator doing so.

I don't think Adywan has ever complained about the general fact that the special editions were made at all.

There might be certain individual changes that he doesn't care for, though the issues he takes with them seems to be more focused on the technical errors that have resulted, and no so much the deliberate changes and alterations.

In fact, if I recall correctly, I think at some point in one of these Star Wars threads he even specifically mentioned liking many of the changes. And as he has stated many times, the edits that he has done on his own have no bearing on the subject at hand here of how the Blu-Rays will look.... well, other than the fact that his extensive research on the matter and his knowledge on how to adjust the look, coloring, etc, of films probably makes him far more qualified to accurately judge the look of the official images than most anyone else posting in this thread (myself included).

But the point being is that you guys keep bringing up his edits as a counter point because you really don't have any reasonable, rational counterpoints directly on topic of the matter at hand. He is in a position of knowledge to assess these transfers with a rather solid degree of accuracy. But you just don't want to hear it and want to assume the transfer will be nothing short of great, so the best that people like you can come up with is to call him a hater and a complainer and to bash what he does OUTSIDE of this site altogether because you can't come up with a reasonable and equally knowledgable counterpoint related to the topic at hand.

It's blanket statements like the one you just made, Beast, that add nothing to the conversation and cause more problems than they solve.

I really think you and anyone who thinks like you on these matters should really go over to the other SW thread in the movies section and read the post that I put up last night about lumping the common complaints against Lucas together and the problems that it causes in this thread. That's exactly what you did here. Both in the fact that you brought up the general concept of people complaing about Lucas changing the movies (which is off-topic and shouldn't be dicussed here... many people like you complain when the thread gets off topic in that regard, yet here you are now making these statements and bating the conversation to head in that direction... now who's being a hypocrite?), and additionally you lumped and overly generalized complaints that OTHER people have made about Lucas changing the movies and associated them with what Adywan has been saying.

Now, that is ALL that I'm going to say on the matter of people's opinions of changes that Lucas has deliberatly made to the films (and whether or not they should have been done) in this thread. Any further discussion of that should be had in the thread in the movies section if you wish to continue it, since it is off-topic and the last thing that we need around here is another round of suspensions like what happened not too long ago.

It is very much on topic to discuss the coloring issues of the Blu-Ray release based on the official images that have come out, which is what Adywan is doing. That's a lot more than I can say for you and others like Shaft Windu and Shelldweller.

[Shin sam]

Originally Posted by Merlinpants

Georges Original Unaltered Trilogy, as in the 2006 DVD releases containg the original films 'unaltered' as bonus features.

Sorry to to say this, but they are NOT unaltered!! We all need to face it, we'll NEVER get them. And the only way we'll all be happy is if GL releases a special editer edition so we can cut it how we want before we watch.

[earmullet]

Blade Runner Color Timing Difference
Two very different color temperatures with little complaints.

Blade Runner DVD:

Blade Runner Blu Ray:


Blade Runner DVD:

Blade Runner Blu Ray:

[Jay444]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

But the point being is that you guys keep bringing up his edits as a counter point because you really don't have any reasonable, rational counterpoints directly on topic of the matter at hand. He is in a position of knowledge to assess these transfers with a rather solid degree of accuracy. But you just don't want to hear it and want to assume the transfer will be nothing short of great, so the best that people like you can come up with is to call him a hater and a complainer and to bash what he does OUTSIDE of this site altogether because you can't come up with a reasonable and equally knowledgable counterpoint related to the topic at hand.

This is an excellent point.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Jay444

This is an excellent point.

Other than the point being completely wrong and inaccurate. And blown out of proportion.