Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Kino is not comparable to Twilight Time. Kino...

(1) Has been in business since the 80s.

(2) Is also the North American distributor (theatrical, and other platforms) for a lot of films.

(3) Release a lot more titles per month, which drops their replicating costs down considerably.

(4) Do not pay the entire licensing fee up front for each title, which gives them better cash flow.

Twilight Time is basically just two people (well, three, since Julie Kirgo is probably as involved as Nick and Brian are). Kino is a much larger company with much greater financial resources. Comparing TT to Kino is not that much different from comparing them to Disney or Warner.

None of that matters at ALL to the consumer experience. I am comparing the consumer experience. If The Russia House came today from Kino it would be the same master, the same lack of features, but $20 cheaper. I really, really wish it was a Kino release for this reason. It's not that hard to understand.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by willo007

But,.. but they are in the same competitive business as Kino, Olive, Arrow and Shout!, and your list is full of self imposed business strategies that Twilight Time came up with themselves.

Why does that matter? I suppose one could argue that if they'd done things exactly like those other labels, they could sell their titles for a lower price. But they chose otherwise.

Their business strategy is to release decently-made editions of films that they wanted to see on Blu-ray, and believed that other people wanted to see as well. They aren't in it to make lots of money, which should be obvious because those strategies aren't optimal for making lots of money. The folks at Twilight Time seem more interested in not losing money instead of making it. The other labels you name are in it to make money. That's the difference.

If you don't like TT's business strategy, that's fine. You can choose to buy their titles or not. My only point is that they aren't anywhere near the same commercial level as those other labels.

That they offer the same kinds of things is irrelevant. In the book world, you can have a small press publisher like Subterranean that offers limited edition SF/fantasy titles at $50-100 a pop, and mainstream publishers like Del Rey that offers SF/fantasy titles (and there's possibly some overlap in titles) for $25-30 a pop. To argue that because they appeal to the same audiences, and therefore are in competition, means that Subterranean should charge the same amount as Del Rey is just absurd.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

None of that matters at ALL to the consumer experience. I am comparing the consumer experience. If The Russia House came today from Kino it would be the same master, the same lack of features, but $20 cheaper. I really, really wish it was a Kino release for this reason. It's not that hard to understand.

I didn't say it was hard to understand. I'm only saying that they aren't comparable. Your argument about what it's like from the consumer viewpoint is valid, but it's not the only viewpoint. And you did not say initially that you were speaking in terms of the consumer experience. You only questioned why, if one could get Kino titles for half-price, couldn't one get TT titles for the same price. I explained why. They aren't the same kind of company.

One could make the same argument about why items at a convenience store cost more than they do at Wal-Mart. It's a different level of business.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I didn't say it was hard to understand. I'm only saying that they aren't comparable. Your argument about what it's like from the consumer viewpoint is valid, but it's not the only viewpoint. And you did not say initially that you were speaking in terms of the consumer experience. You only questioned why, if one could get Kino titles for half-price, couldn't one get TT titles for the same price. I explained why. They aren't the same kind of company.

One could make the same argument about why items at a convenience store cost more than they do at Wal-Mart. It's a different level of business.

Yet it's not a different level of business, they're both labels seeking licenses for catalog titles. People romanticize Twilight Time releases for reasons I do not understand, I would rather literally any other label get these movies. That is all I am saying.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Yet it's not a different level of business, they're both labels seeking licenses for catalog titles. People romanticize Twilight Time releases for reasons I do not understand, I would rather literally any other label get these movies. That is all I am saying.

Offering the same type of product is not the same as being the same level of business. Why is that so hard to understand? As I've just said in previous replies, it's like saying that a small-press publisher is the same as a mainstream book publisher just because they might offer the same kinds of books, or a convenience store is the same as Wal-Mart because you can get Coke and potato chips in both places.

I'm sorry if you feel cheated when TT announces a title that you'd rather see come out from Kino because it'd be cheaper. But that's life. Like anything else, you have to decide whether it's something you want badly enough to pay the price for.

[baheidstu]

Copied from the TT Facebook page, looks like we're getting Stardust Memories this December:

In honor of Woody Allen's latest film -- CAFE SOCIETY -- opening in theaters today, Twilight Time is proud to be Mr A's releasing label in the USA -- with 9 titles so far making their debuts on the hi-def format -- we have at least 9 more to come -- scheduled for 2017 and beyond -- starting with the bittersweet STARDUST MEMORIES due on Blu in December...

[Wireduck1]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Yet it's not a different level of business, they're both labels seeking licenses for catalog titles. People romanticize Twilight Time releases for reasons I do not understand, I would rather literally any other label get these movies. That is all I am saying.

Just want to mention that I totally romanticize TT and all those other small distributors of blu rays who do an outstanding job in bringing releases to us month after month. The fact that they are a tiny team doing such great work is really highlighted by the contrast to the major companies with sealed vaults of titles and a seemingly ambivalent attitude to both the blu ray format and film in general.

We Love you TT.

[oildude]

From Twilight Time:

Just a heads-up there are approximately 25 copies of 10 RILLINGTON PLACE remaining, signed by the ever-lovely Judy Geeson...only at http://www.screenarchives.com

Also, they responded on their Facebook page with a "give that man a cigar" (which I take to be a yes) to a fan who asked if these were the remaining nine Woody Allen titles remaining to be released by TT:

Bananas
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* (*But Were Afraid to Ask)
Interiors
Stardust Memories
September
Another Woman
Alice
Husbands and Wives
Manhattan Murder Mystery

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Reddington

Couldn't care less about TT's business model. They run it how they like - obviously, quite successfully - and it's my choice to buy. They release some great titles; there are always quite a few in my SAE wishlist. I'm happy to pay full price if I want a title without waiting. And I'm even happier to pay the sale price when possible.

Great post. I buy from everybody both US and international labels and I don't care about any label's business model. I made some comments years ago in this thread but those were due to my annoyance with a fanboy that used to monopolize this thread. Thankfully, he is gone and a ton of issues disappeared with him. BTW, years after not posting in this forum, he is only about 20 posts behind the #1 poster for this thread.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by oildude

Also, they responded on their Facebook page with a "give that man a cigar" (which I take to be a yes) to a member who asked if these were the remaining nine Woody Allen titles remaining to be released by TT:

Bananas
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* (*But Were Afraid to Ask)
Interiors
Stardust Memories
September
Another Woman
Alice
Husbands and Wives
Manhattan Murder Mystery

Hunh. I thought they'd already disavowed Interiors. And apparently, the total number of his films they've got is 17. I was under the impression that it was 15. But perhaps they only recently managed to snag the two TriStar films (the last two in the list) from Sony. Makes me wonder if they'll manage to get Sweet and Lowdown (Sony) and Melinda and Melinda (Fox) down the road. Those would be the only other two from their licensors that haven't been released on BD yet (i.e. not including his last seven films, all released on BD by Sony Pictures Classics).

[docc]

Originally Posted by 78deluxe

Zelig arrived.

Given that much of this brilliant movie is of actual old newsreel footage, or made to look like, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this works on Blu-ray

[docc]

Originally Posted by jayembee

apparently, the total number of his films they've got is 17. I was under the impression that it was 15. But perhaps they only recently managed to snag the two TriStar films (the last two in the list) from Sony.

...which for me, along with Bananas, are the most anticipated

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by oildude

From Twilight Time:

Also, they responded on their Facebook page with a "give that man a cigar" (which I take to be a yes) to a fan who asked if these were the remaining nine Woody Allen titles remaining to be released by TT:

Bananas
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* (*But Were Afraid to Ask)
Interiors
Stardust Memories
September
Another Woman
Alice
Husbands and Wives
Manhattan Murder Mystery

I'm not a huge fan of Woody Allen but I'll definitely be buying Everything You Always Wanted To Know... because watching a giant disembodied breast squirting milk is what HD was made for.

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Great post. I buy from everybody both US and international labels and I don't care about any label's business model. I made some comments years ago in this thread but those were due to my annoyance with a fanboy that used to monopolize this thread. Thankfully, he is gone and a ton of issues disappeared with him. BTW, years after not posting in this forum, he is only about 20 posts behind the #1 poster for this thread.

Yeah, this debate about Twilight Time and their business model pops up all the time and the thing is that the people who rip into them still end up purchasing their stuff. It's a small company who genuinely seem to put an effort into the products they release and sometimes they make a few mistakes along the road but overall they put out a great product. They started that company because they got the sense that the days of studios releasing physical media was coming to an end (hence the name Twilight Time) and they wanted to step in to fill the void. They can't be making a huge profit so obviously it's a labor of love and I can respect and appreciate that and when people start ripping into them I can only think to myself how it's a bit of a dick move. I mean how many other companies offer free promotional copies of their releases signed by celebs like Malcolm McDowell, Shirley Jones, Lalo Schifrin, etc? That's a pretty cool thing they've been doing pretty much every month for years now. From my point of view, I've got about 80 or so of their releases and virtually all of them have been purchased through sales or promotions and with the exchange rate, etc. it's no more than what I personally would pay for a Kino or Olive title.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Offering the same type of product is not the same as being the same level of business. Why is that so hard to understand? As I've just said in previous replies, it's like saying that a small-press publisher is the same as a mainstream book publisher just because they might offer the same kinds of books, or a convenience store is the same as Wal-Mart because you can get Coke and potato chips in both places.

I'm sorry if you feel cheated when TT announces a title that you'd rather see come out from Kino because it'd be cheaper. But that's life. Like anything else, you have to decide whether it's something you want badly enough to pay the price for.

I had this debate in this thread before, I know it's pointless. I'm not sure what else to tell you. TT do nothing for the consumer to earn that extra $20, you just have to decide whether you want the movie bad enough to give in. I own like 20 TT titles, so obviously I spend the cash when I really want the flick. That doesn't mean I can't rationally examine things and realize other labels offer MUCH more value for the money.

I honestly don't know what fosters this kind of consumer loyalty where you have to deny the value difference.

[Reddington]

Originally Posted by oildude

Also, they responded on their Facebook page with a "give that man a cigar" (which I take to be a yes) to a fan who asked if these were the remaining nine Woody Allen titles remaining to be released by TT:

[Show spoiler]Bananas
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* (*But Were Afraid to Ask)
Interiors
Stardust Memories
September
Another Woman
Alice
Husbands and Wives
Manhattan Murder Mystery

Definitely up for two or three of these. Good to see TT getting so many Allen titles.

[BixmanJ]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I had this debate in this thread before, I know it's pointless. I'm not sure what else to tell you. TT do nothing for the consumer to earn that extra $20, you just have to decide whether you want the movie bad enough to give in. I own like 20 TT titles, so obviously I spend the cash when I really want the flick. That doesn't mean I can't rationally examine things and realize other labels offer MUCH more value for the money.

I honestly don't know what fosters this kind of consumer loyalty where you have to deny the value difference.

Just don't look at the debate as something that needs to be had over and over. If you've had it before, why keep bringing it up in the this thread where there's going to be supporters of the label and release model? I think it's already been established that what one person values is subjective. This topic gets raised during every announcement of their releases and then in between. You wish a larger label was granted permission for titles you enjoy, just leave it at that.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Hunh. I thought they'd already disavowed Interiors. And apparently, the total number of his films they've got is 17. I was under the impression that it was 15. But perhaps they only recently managed to snag the two TriStar films (the last two in the list) from Sony. Makes me wonder if they'll manage to get Sweet and Lowdown (Sony) and Melinda and Melinda (Fox) down the road. Those would be the only other two from their licensors that haven't been released on BD yet (i.e. not including his last seven films, all released on BD by Sony Pictures Classics).

So of course, I realize that I'd forgotten the following from baheidstu's post:

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Copied from the TT Facebook page, looks like we're getting Stardust Memories this December:

In honor of Woody Allen's latest film -- CAFE SOCIETY -- opening in theaters today, Twilight Time is proud to be Mr A's releasing label in the USA -- with 9 titles so far making their debuts on the hi-def format -- we have at least 9 more to come -- scheduled for 2017 and beyond -- starting with the bittersweet STARDUST MEMORIES due on Blu in December...

So they will (at least so far) have 18 titles in all. So I suppose it's possible that they already have an agreement with Sony for Sweet and Lowdown. Or Melinda and Melinda from Fox, but I think it more likely that they would've gotten the former at the same time as Husbands and Wives and Manhattan Murder Mystery.

[tenia]

Might be about the same movies than Arrow in the UK (1971 - 1991 I believe) minus Manhattan and Annie Hall.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

From my point of view, I've got about 80 or so of their releases and virtually all of them have been purchased through sales or promotions and with the exchange rate, etc. it's no more than what I personally would pay for a Kino or Olive title.

With the handful I got from the recent SAE sale, I'm up to 72. The majority have been acquired through sales, though a fair number were bought at SRP. I figure that the money I save by buying Kino, Olive, Criterion, etc. titles at discount allows me to spend more on TT releases.

[Cremildo]

Originally Posted by oildude

they responded on their Facebook page with a "give that man a cigar" (which I take to be a yes) to a fan who asked if these were the remaining nine Woody Allen titles remaining to be released by TT:

Bananas
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* (*But Were Afraid to Ask)
Interiors
Stardust Memories
September
Another Woman
Alice
Husbands and Wives
Manhattan Murder Mystery

Still no Bullets Over Broadway?