UltraHD Blurays and players will start coming by Christmas 2015. Still buying blurays

[bobbydrugar]

What I am most looking forward to is seeing the new UHD players come out and see the manufacturers still shipping them with composite cables. Mark my words one of them will do it.

T

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

You're overlooking one huge factor: DVDs are significantly cheaper to make.

Cheaper to make + 70% of the market still willking to buy them = match made in heaven for studios

You think they're going to force blu ray on general principle?

DVDs are cheaper to make because they've been on the market twice as long thus the manufacturers have had more time to recoup their investment and they are produced in greater volumes which drives down prices. If Blu-ray was replicated in greater volumes its price per disc would decrease too. The other variable is licensing fee differences between CSS and AACS

Originally Posted by bobbydrugar

Oh it will happen. if I throw on a UHD disk to a sub par (like my old 1081i Rear projection TV) and a DVD then they both come out looking pretty crappy. If I connect a UHD player to a Television with Composite yellow/Red/White cables then it will look pretty crappy.

Just you wait there will be tons of people (Real people living in the real world not hangin out on message boards about Blu-ray) that legitimately can not tell the difference.

T

Won't happen because UHD players won't have composite outputs.

[The Great Owl]

The more that I think about it, here's how I see it...

It's all about increased convenience.

The reason why CDs overtook cassette tapes in the music world was not simply because CDs sound so much better. The real reason was that CDs offered instant random access to songs, so that listeners did not have to rewind or fast-forward to their favorite songs.

In turn, the reason why DVDs overtook videocassettes was not simply because DVDs look so much better. The real reason was that DVDs offered ready access to any part of a movie without having to rewind or fast-forward. No more "Be Kind, Rewind" with movie rentals. No more VHS rental tapes where the Phoebe Cates pool scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High was ruined due to so many renters pausing the tape and running it in slow-motion during that scene. No more waiting around for a VHS tape to rewind. ...and so on.

The real reason for format upgrade success is due to convenience. Not improved sound. Not improved resolution. Just convenience.

What conveniences does Blu-ray have to offer over DVD?
What can viewers do with a Blu-ray that they couldn't do with a DVD?

Well...

Nothing. Nothing at all.

In fact, Blu-rays are less convenient than DVDs, simply because we have to wait a few seconds for a Blu-ray to boot up after inserting it in the Blu-ray player.

SACDs have not taken hold with the masses, because they offer no added convenience over CDs. In turn, Blu-rays are still outsold by DVDs simply because they offer no added convenience over DVDs.

Blu-rays, in themselves, are already niche-market items for movie enthusiasts.

Ultra HD Blu-rays, in all likelihood, are going to be advanced-level niche-market items.

Ultra HD Blu-rays may look noticeably better than Blu-rays, but they will offer no tangible conveniences over Blu-rays or even over DVDs. In fact, Ultra HD Blu-rays might end up being a colossal pain in the neck in the beginning, with slower boot-up times and/or dependability on internet access.

No tangible conveniences = no sale with the masses.

Streaming, by contrast, offers a tangible convenience over Ultra HD Blu-rays, over Blu-rays, and over DVDs, simply because people can purchase a digital download without having to go to a store, without having to go to their mailbox, and without even having to put their pants on.

Companies and forum enthusiasts can go on and on about 4K restorations, movies in their native resolution, increased color variety, and so on, but many people are not going to bite down on the hook unless a format comes along that actually allows them to step into the screen and kiss Black Widow while they're watching The Avengers.



While I was taking my lunch break at a Target store here in a semi-suburban/semi-rural average size city here in Georgia, I ambled over to the media section and saw that the vast majority of movies in the two movie aisles were DVD editions. Even the newer releases (Skin Trade, The Big Game, etc.) were only available on DVD at the store. There were Blu-rays for the Marvel films, for Insurgence, and for Ex-Machina, but that was pretty much it.

I'm hard-pressed to imagine DVDs being phased out of existence any time soon, and I'm definitely hard-pressed to imagine players with DVD capability being phased out of the market any time soon.

I'm also hard-pressed to imagine Ultra HD Blu-ray taking over its predecessors any time soon.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

The more that I think about it, here's how I see it...

It's all about increased convenience.

The reason why CDs overtook cassette tapes in the music world was not simply because CDs sound so much better. The real reason was that CDs offered instant random access to songs, so that listeners did not have to rewind or fast-forward to their favorite songs.

In turn, the reason why DVDs overtook videocassettes was not simply because DVDs look so much better. The real reason was that DVDs offered ready access to any part of a movie without having to rewind or fast-forward. No more "Be Kind, Rewind" with movie rentals. No more VHS rental tapes where the Phoebe Cates pool scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High was ruined due to so many renters pausing the tape and running it in slow-motion during that scene. No more waiting around for a VHS tape to rewind. ...and so on.

The real reason for format upgrade success is due to convenience. Not improved sound. Not improved resolution. Just convenience.

What conveniences does Blu-ray have to offer over DVD?
What can viewers do with a Blu-ray that they couldn't do with a DVD?

Well...

Nothing. Nothing at all.

In fact, Blu-rays are less convenient than DVDs, simply because we have to wait a few seconds for a Blu-ray to boot up after inserting it in the Blu-ray player.

SACDs have not taken hold with the masses, because they offer no added convenience over CDs. In turn, Blu-rays are still outsold by DVDs simply because they offer no added convenience over DVDs.

Blu-rays, in themselves, are already niche-market items for movie enthusiasts.

Ultra HD Blu-rays, in all likelihood, are going to be advanced-level niche-market items.

Ultra HD Blu-rays may look noticeably better than Blu-rays, but they will offer no tangible conveniences over Blu-rays or even over DVDs. In fact, Ultra HD Blu-rays might end up being a colossal pain in the neck in the beginning, with slower boot-up times and/or dependability on internet access.

No tangible conveniences = no sale with the masses.

Streaming, by contrast, offers a tangible convenience over Ultra HD Blu-rays, over Blu-rays, and over DVDs, simply because people can purchase a digital download without having to go to a store, without having to go to their mailbox, and without even having to put their pants on.

Companies and forum enthusiasts can go on and on about 4K restorations, movies in their native resolution, increased color variety, and so on, but many people are not going to bite down on the hook unless a format comes along that actually allows them to step into the screen and kiss Black Widow while they're watching The Avengers.



While I was taking my lunch break at a Target store here in a semi-suburban/semi-rural average size city here in Georgia, I ambled over to the media section and saw that the vast majority of movies in the two movie aisles were DVD editions. Even the newer releases (Skin Trade, The Big Game, etc.) were only available on DVD at the store. There were Blu-rays for the Marvel films, for Insurgence, and for Ex-Machina, but that was pretty much it.

I'm hard-pressed to imagine DVDs being phased out of existence any time soon, and I'm definitely hard-pressed to imagine players with DVD capability being phased out of the market any time soon.

I'm also hard-pressed to imagine Ultra HD Blu-ray taking over its predecessors any time soon.

To sum up:

Lazy always wins out.

[Pecker]

A quick aside - might the uptake of 4K TVs (which appears to be fairly robust) actually start to accelerate Blu-ray Disc sales?

If someone has a large 4K TV, their DVDs are only producing 1 pixel in every 16, with the other 15 being 'guesses'.

That's got to look pants, I don't care how good your upscaling is.

Steve W

[42041]

Originally Posted by Pecker

A quick aside - might the uptake of 4K TVs (which appears to be fairly robust) actually start to accelerate Blu-ray Disc sales?

If someone has a large 4K TV, their DVDs are only producing 1 pixel in every 16, with the other 15 being 'guesses'.

That's got to look pants, I don't care how good your upscaling is.

Steve W

Wouldn't look any worse than upscaling DVDs to 1080p.
If people start upgrading their 40" panels from the early days of HD mass adoption to 80" or whatever, I could see more people growing dissatisfied with their DVDs. I could also see them not caring. I suspect most people buying cheap 4K tv's are not particularly quality concious.

[Blu MacReady]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

The more that I think about it, here's how I see it...

It's all about increased convenience.

The reason why CDs overtook cassette tapes in the music world was not simply because CDs sound so much better. The real reason was that CDs offered instant random access to songs, so that listeners did not have to rewind or fast-forward to their favorite songs.

In turn, the reason why DVDs overtook videocassettes was not simply because DVDs look so much better. The real reason was that DVDs offered ready access to any part of a movie without having to rewind or fast-forward. No more "Be Kind, Rewind" with movie rentals. No more VHS rental tapes where the Phoebe Cates pool scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High was ruined due to so many renters pausing the tape and running it in slow-motion during that scene. No more waiting around for a VHS tape to rewind. ...and so on.

The real reason for format upgrade success is due to convenience. Not improved sound. Not improved resolution. Just convenience.

What conveniences does Blu-ray have to offer over DVD?
What can viewers do with a Blu-ray that they couldn't do with a DVD?

Well...

Nothing. Nothing at all.

In fact, Blu-rays are less convenient than DVDs, simply because we have to wait a few seconds for a Blu-ray to boot up after inserting it in the Blu-ray player.

SACDs have not taken hold with the masses, because they offer no added convenience over CDs. In turn, Blu-rays are still outsold by DVDs simply because they offer no added convenience over DVDs.

Blu-rays, in themselves, are already niche-market items for movie enthusiasts.

Ultra HD Blu-rays, in all likelihood, are going to be advanced-level niche-market items.

Ultra HD Blu-rays may look noticeably better than Blu-rays, but they will offer no tangible conveniences over Blu-rays or even over DVDs. In fact, Ultra HD Blu-rays might end up being a colossal pain in the neck in the beginning, with slower boot-up times and/or dependability on internet access.

No tangible conveniences = no sale with the masses.

Streaming, by contrast, offers a tangible convenience over Ultra HD Blu-rays, over Blu-rays, and over DVDs, simply because people can purchase a digital download without having to go to a store, without having to go to their mailbox, and without even having to put their pants on.

Companies and forum enthusiasts can go on and on about 4K restorations, movies in their native resolution, increased color variety, and so on, but many people are not going to bite down on the hook unless a format comes along that actually allows them to step into the screen and kiss Black Widow while they're watching The Avengers.



While I was taking my lunch break at a Target store here in a semi-suburban/semi-rural average size city here in Georgia, I ambled over to the media section and saw that the vast majority of movies in the two movie aisles were DVD editions. Even the newer releases (Skin Trade, The Big Game, etc.) were only available on DVD at the store. There were Blu-rays for the Marvel films, for Insurgence, and for Ex-Machina, but that was pretty much it.

I'm hard-pressed to imagine DVDs being phased out of existence any time soon, and I'm definitely hard-pressed to imagine players with DVD capability being phased out of the market any time soon.

I'm also hard-pressed to imagine Ultra HD Blu-ray taking over its predecessors any time soon.

Agree, except Id add both Cassette and VHS had tape chew issues, DVD safe guarded this.

Dvd scratch and skip, BD safe guarded that.

UHD...?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Yep, DVD SKUs just need to stop being made, period.

How would that benefit me...Al Franken?

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

To sum up:

Lazy always wins out.

To be fair, we are talking about a leisure activity. For all our talk about caring about quality and going the extra mile at the end of the day the lazy slobs who don't care about quality and the committed videophiles are all on couches watching tvs

[filmo70]

I caught the end of The Price is Right today and one of the prizes in a showcase was:

1) 65" 1080p tv
2) Samsung blu-ray player
and
and
wait for it

3) A bunch of DVDs!!!

Funny but I also thought it's relevant to the current discussion.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by filmo70

I caught the end of The Price is Right today and one of the prizes in a showcase was:

1) 65" 1080p tv
2) Samsung blu-ray player
and
and
wait for it

3) A bunch of DVDs!!!

Funny but I also thought it's relevant to the current discussion.

That's just a knife wound right in the side. Jeez!!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Pecker

A quick aside - might the uptake of 4K TVs (which appears to be fairly robust) actually start to accelerate Blu-ray Disc sales?

If someone has a large 4K TV, their DVDs are only producing 1 pixel in every 16, with the other 15 being 'guesses'.

That's got to look pants, I don't care how good your upscaling is.

Steve W

I know you like a bit of empirical evidence Steve, so try this on for size. It depends on whether you consider 55" to be large (said the Bishop to the actress) but a well-mastered DVD is solidly watchable on my 4K TV, and as I've mentioned elsewhere even non-anamorphic stuff is bearable. Bear in mind that once the SD to 1080p conversion takes place inside my BD player, the 4K upscaling is then directly proportional from 1080p up to 2160p so the scaling at that stage is as mathematically precise as such guesswork is ever going to be (which is also why BD to 4K looks so seamless). The quality of a DVD upscale into 4K is more reliant on that initial SD to HD step than anything IMO, as well as turning off all them gash picture enhancement algorithms that reside inside many TVs today. I dread to mention the "c" word but that helps too...

BTW I can't see the pixel structure on my TV (which has 8 million of the little bastards) unless I literally put my eye to the screen, unlike a 1080p set where I can see them from a good few feet away, so even with all those other pixels being guesses it'd take one eagle-eyed mother****er to pick which one is the real deal from a proper viewing distance.

[Geoff D]

Still, given how shit modern DVD masterings are (dat aliasing!) I think your underlying question is a fair one, Steve. Garbage in, garbage out as they say.

[Canada]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtL8hG_JJWY

[master gandhi]

Example:
I've wanted to see Aloha ever since it was coming soon to theaters because I love Hawaii and I'm a fan of the people involved.

I was thinking of blind buying it this week on Blu-ray, despite the negative reviews about the film itself.

Supposedly, the special features are above average and the picture quality is outstanding.

However, I took it upon myself to find out what the film was mastered in. Sure enough, it's 4K. This is a film that relies a lot on its Hawaiian visuals, and I'd like to wait for a proper UHD Blu-ray to help sell those visuals to me.

It's getting so close to the UHD Blu-ray launch. Hopefully the wait is worth it.

[42041]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Example:
I've wanted to see Aloha ever since it was coming soon to theaters because I love Hawaii and I'm a fan of the people involved.

I was thinking of blind buying it this week on Blu-ray, despite the negative reviews about the film itself.

Supposedly, the special features are above average and the picture quality is outstanding.

However, I took it upon myself to find out what the film was mastered in. Sure enough, it's 4K. This is a film that relies a lot on its Hawaiian visuals, and I'd like to wait for a proper UHD Blu-ray to help sell those visuals to me.

It's getting so close to the UHD Blu-ray launch. Hopefully the wait is worth it.

For 35mm movies, I think 4K will yield no revelations. It will undoubtedly look better, but not like some store demo shot on high-end digital cameras. Film just doesn't have much sharpness beyond 2K.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by 42041

For 35mm movies, I think 4K will yield no revelations. It will undoubtedly look better, but not like some store demo shot on high-end digital cameras. Film just doesn't have much sharpness beyond 2K.

Again, depending on the film stock and if you're working with the camera negatives, 4k is about right.

[42041]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Again, depending on the film stock and if you're working with the camera negatives, 4k is about right.

4K is pretty much the tippy top of 35mm's capabilities, but the sharpness starts dropping off considerably before that. There's a reason 16mm films tend to be far softer than 35mm ones of the same vintage (though admittedly they hold up on the big screen just fine) though you're essentially looking at 2K's worth of a 4K scan (of footage that is, pound-for-pound, sharper than that shot on 35mm).

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

The more that I think about it, here's how I see it...

It's all about increased convenience.

...

Blu-rays, in themselves, are already niche-market items for movie enthusiasts.

Ultra HD Blu-rays, in all likelihood, are going to be advanced-level niche-market items.

Good post overall, agree with this specifically. UHD could stick around, but as a niche option on an already niche hobby.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by bobbydrugar

Too true. I think a bunch of people throwing around slurs such as people are lazy and get their butts in gear have no concept of living on fixed income. Persons with disabilities, and any form of empathy for somebody that is not them. It has never happened in the history of ever that a company was successful at forcing consumers to buy anything. in fact the closest I can think of is Mandatory Car Insurance (which took legislation in the U.S.) and Forced health care (Which took Legislation in the U.S.) and those fairly high priority life decisions have split the electorate in the past (hell the health care thing is still a touchy subject) I don't think there would be anywhere near that level of split in the electorate when uncle sam comes down and legislates you must buy a Blu-Ray player and a New UHDTV. its not going to happen. laws of economics currently drive these trivial leisure activities, watching movies and buying DVD's so as long as they number in the 70% range and until adoption of the new format replaces and surpasses the income of the former format it will continue to be supported.

Simple economics.
T

I know very, very well what it's like to live on a fixed budget, and I'm fully capable of having empathy for people on fixed incomes. I spend money I probably shouldn't on blu-rays because I'm a huge movie fan, but I have very limited funds available for entertainment. But seriously, people have had 8 years to save $50 to buy a blu-ray player. There are bins and bins of $7.99 blu-rays at Wal-Mart. Movie-Stop sells tons of used discs at good prices. Amazon and Best Buy often try to out-price each other with blu-ray sales. Often I see blu-rays in stores that are no more than a dollar or two more expensive than the DVD, sometimes even cheaper than the DVD. On Black Friday Wal-Mart is stocked in-store with $3-$10 blu-rays. Sure there are some expensive collector discs out there from the likes of Arrow, Synapse, Twilight Time, etc. - but how many average Wal-mart shoppers even know about those? And even if the industry kills DVD now, there are thousands of titles available in the used market which can still be bought and played in a blu-ray player. It's not like I'm proposing the studios come into their homes and take away the DVDs on their shelves.

What I'm saying is there is no need to continue to put modern films out on DVD when the blu-ray is barely $1-2 more and players are $50 for an okay one or $125 for a great one, or even cheaper around the holidays. If people can't afford a $50 blu-ray player, then I'm sorry, maybe they shouldn't be buying movies at all. And this is coming from somebody who is basically poor.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

The more that I think about it, here's how I see it...

It's all about increased convenience.

The reason why CDs overtook cassette tapes in the music world was not simply because CDs sound so much better. The real reason was that CDs offered instant random access to songs, so that listeners did not have to rewind or fast-forward to their favorite songs.

In turn, the reason why DVDs overtook videocassettes was not simply because DVDs look so much better. The real reason was that DVDs offered ready access to any part of a movie without having to rewind or fast-forward. No more "Be Kind, Rewind" with movie rentals. No more VHS rental tapes where the Phoebe Cates pool scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High was ruined due to so many renters pausing the tape and running it in slow-motion during that scene. No more waiting around for a VHS tape to rewind. ...and so on.

The real reason for format upgrade success is due to convenience. Not improved sound. Not improved resolution. Just convenience.

What conveniences does Blu-ray have to offer over DVD?
What can viewers do with a Blu-ray that they couldn't do with a DVD?

Well...

Nothing. Nothing at all.

In fact, Blu-rays are less convenient than DVDs, simply because we have to wait a few seconds for a Blu-ray to boot up after inserting it in the Blu-ray player.

SACDs have not taken hold with the masses, because they offer no added convenience over CDs. In turn, Blu-rays are still outsold by DVDs simply because they offer no added convenience over DVDs.

Blu-rays, in themselves, are already niche-market items for movie enthusiasts.

Ultra HD Blu-rays, in all likelihood, are going to be advanced-level niche-market items.

Ultra HD Blu-rays may look noticeably better than Blu-rays, but they will offer no tangible conveniences over Blu-rays or even over DVDs. In fact, Ultra HD Blu-rays might end up being a colossal pain in the neck in the beginning, with slower boot-up times and/or dependability on internet access.

No tangible conveniences = no sale with the masses.

Streaming, by contrast, offers a tangible convenience over Ultra HD Blu-rays, over Blu-rays, and over DVDs, simply because people can purchase a digital download without having to go to a store, without having to go to their mailbox, and without even having to put their pants on.

Companies and forum enthusiasts can go on and on about 4K restorations, movies in their native resolution, increased color variety, and so on, but many people are not going to bite down on the hook unless a format comes along that actually allows them to step into the screen and kiss Black Widow while they're watching The Avengers.



While I was taking my lunch break at a Target store here in a semi-suburban/semi-rural average size city here in Georgia, I ambled over to the media section and saw that the vast majority of movies in the two movie aisles were DVD editions. Even the newer releases (Skin Trade, The Big Game, etc.) were only available on DVD at the store. There were Blu-rays for the Marvel films, for Insurgence, and for Ex-Machina, but that was pretty much it.

I'm hard-pressed to imagine DVDs being phased out of existence any time soon, and I'm definitely hard-pressed to imagine players with DVD capability being phased out of the market any time soon.

I'm also hard-pressed to imagine Ultra HD Blu-ray taking over its predecessors any time soon.

I agree that people want convenience. You're 100% correct - blu-ray offers nothing over DVD in terms of convenience, and UHD offers nothing over blu-ray in terms of convenience. This is why streaming is getting more popular - it's the ultimate convenience. You don't even have to get up and put a disc in - just click the remote and bring up the interface and start streaming.

As far as stores stocking DVDs - that's because the studios put them out, and people buy them because that's what they do, and stores stock more. If the studios put a hard cutoff date to stop DVD production, and going forward releases new titles on blu-ray (and UHD) only, do you really think people will stop buying movies? People will groan, and then go over to the blu-ray section and look at their options for a cheap player. Life goes on. People may not want to bother with blu-ray since they can't see any benefit, but if that's what the studios choose to make, then that's obviously what people have to buy if they want to continue to own movies, which many people obviously still do.

People keep acting like if DVD production stops then everyone who buys DVDs will never buy another movie again. That's not going to happen. People will shift when it comes time to shift.