Ban on discussion of religion or politics prevents film discussion.

[aristotles]

I feel that a total ban on discussion of either of these two topics even within the context of discussing a movie with politicial or religious themes prevents us from being able to have constructive discussions on movies of that type.

I fully support having no threads started specifically on religion or politics but if we were discussing say "The Passion of Christ" religion is likely to appear in the thread by the very nature of the film. Movies about politics or political events are also going to result in political discussions.

What you guys really should be punishing are any overt attempt to troll, defame, persecute or otherwise attack a particular religious or political group, member of said group of an individual member based on their affiliation. Such behavior should be treated in the same way as racism or sexism.

I also don't buy the "fair" moderation where both the attacker and the attacked are punished simply for engaging rather than ignoring an offense. As long at the person defending does not attack the attacker, I don't see anything wrong with clearing up misconceptions especially if they are relevant to the content or themes of a movie.

Another alternative is to create another section where people can discuss politically or religiously charged movies but I believe the same rules of punishing attackers or bullies should apply there as well.

[CptGreedle]

Perhaps a section similar to the OFF TOPIC section where these discussion can take place would be appropriate. If it is still ON TOPIC of movies on Blu and the like, I think it should be fine as long as it is noted that it will contain political and/or religious posts and should be treated with respect. The instant anyone goes too far, it might need to be restricted or closed.
Still, yes politics and religion are important themes/genres in movies, and it is hard to review these without bringing it up, but I am wary to have religious and political spam.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Perhaps a section similar to the OFF TOPIC section where these discussion can take place would be appropriate. If it is still ON TOPIC of movies on Blu and the like, I think it should be fine as long as it is noted that it will contain political and/or religious posts and should be treated with respect. The instant anyone goes too far, it might need to be restricted or closed.
Still, yes politics and religion are important themes/genres in movies, and it is hard to review these without bringing it up, but I am wary to have religious and political spam.

I would add in anything that deals with business or economics because that is ultimately a political discussion as well.

[CptGreedle]

Originally Posted by Blu-Ray Buckeye

I would add in anything that deals with business or economics because that is ultimately a political discussion as well.

Yes, politics of any kind that are not directly connected to the politics of Blu-ray should go there too.
As well as anything "controversial". However this thread should maintain its PG-13 status. I am not sure it is an official status, but it is safest to assume all posts should be of PG-13 caliber so nothing gets out of hand.
These are open to anyone and we do not want kids looking at stuff on here that is objectionable.

[kpkelley]

Speaking of religion....Go Pats!!!

[ground chuck]

oh my....this is what it's come to, this is not a church and state forum, its friggin blu-ray forum. our constitution separates church and state, not moderators of a forum site. first ammendment rights, maybe they should be practiced.

[Go Blu]

It's always going to come up as it is the topic of many films.
Too many people waste their time arguing over
religion and politics.

If it offends you...
don't click into it, don't read it and don't respond to it.
Simple as that.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by ground chuck

oh my....this is what it's come to, this is not a church and state forum, its friggin blu-ray forum. our constitution separates church and state, not moderators of a forum site. first ammendment rights, maybe they should be practiced.

It is a blu-ray forum and I'm talking about being able to discuss blu-ray titles, their plots and what the movie is trying to say. If a movie has religious or political themes, I cannot see how discussing either politics or religion can be avoided. This has nothing to do with people starting up threads for the purpose of discussing politics or religion as there are other boards for that.

People that are going out of their way to discuss either topic outside of the context of a movie should be dealt with accordingly.

I'm not advocating another "off topic" section but rather some framework for discussing movies that involve either political or religious themes.

[Merrick]

Originally Posted by ground chuck

oh my....this is what it's come to, this is not a church and state forum, its friggin blu-ray forum. our constitution separates church and state, not moderators of a forum site. first ammendment rights, maybe they should be practiced.

Umm, actually... no (though I whole-heartedly support you call for 1st amendment rights!). The US Constitution does no such thing. It *specifically* states that congress and *congress only* keep its mitts out of *an establishment of religion* and has nothing to say about any other kind of interaction between "church and state" in any other shape or form. That actual words of import here:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notice the one and *only* direction of interaction prohibited here: Congress ---> institution

And *absolutely* no statement regarding the reverse: institution ---> Congress

And notice additionally how Congress' relation to "an establishment of religion" is pretty explicitly equated with "freedom of speech", "the press", "the right of the people peacably to assemble and to petition the Government for the redress of grievances."

So, free speech is ok as long as it doesn't interfere with government? Don't think so. So the same clearly isn't true of "establishments of religion."

For the record, the oft-quoted "separation of church and state" appears in no founding Federal document, and certainly not the Constitution or any amendment. The phrase "building a wall of separation between church and state" was written by Thomas Jefferson in a January 1, 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association. Sorry, but no honest person can consider that binding on the either the Federal government or American citizens.

[Slec]

Like many good ideas I've seen come up on this site, I think in practice it is much harder to handle then in principle.

Say you create an off topic discussion thread for something like this. Ultimately the moderator's would spend way too much time on these threads and not enough on the rest of the board. With all the members this site has, it is their duty to try and keep discussion to all things blu-ray.

BELIEF is a very difficult thing. People are passionate and stoic in their ideologies and when opposing ideologies meet, things turn ugly. I'm sure there are many on this board who could have enlightening conversations about these themes in movies and Passion of the Christ is a great example. Any discussion would quickly fill up with idiots throwing in their 2 cents or saying something to see what happens. Such is the internet when people can hide behind Avatars and anonymity.

Call me a cynic, but I think there are just too many members on this site who couldn't be trusted to stay on topic and keep the discussion to Blu. Reiterating what I stated above, at that point the mods would spend too much time banning/warning posters in those threads and that is a waste of everyone's time.

[Slec]

Doesn't even begin to count the number of people who would cry that they are being discriminated against because of their beliefs if their post was deleted.

This is a website, run and maintained privately, not a public forum where we can say what we want. 1st amendment rights do not apply. If the mods want to delete every post that contains incorrect spellings, that is there right. it's their sand box, we have simply been invited in to play because of a similar interest. in the end we abide by their decisions, or we can leave. That is our choice..

Nothing wrong with asking though...

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by Slec

BELIEF is a very difficult thing. People are passionate and stoic in their ideologies and when opposing ideologies meet, things turn ugly. I'm sure there are many on this board who could have enlightening conversations about these themes in movies and Passion of the Christ is a great example. Any discussion would quickly fill up with idiots throwing in their 2 cents or saying something to see what happens. Such is the internet when people can hide behind Avatars and anonymity.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. It is still possible to discuss a movie like PotC (that would be Passion, not Pirates) without making it a religious discussion, if you focus on the elements of the film, and not necessarily the ideology behind it. But you are correct that too many trolls and ******s would toss their virtual cigarette butt on what is already a powder-keg of a conversation hoping for a spark.

That said, as a long-time member of this site, I am still a little bewildered at what gets modded down and what doesn't here. The mods are only human, but I am confused how some members can get away with a 7-page thread encouraging users to join their pornographic web site (which is a very strict violation of forum rules), but if someone mentions the economy, they receive an infraction (based upon a very loose interpretation of the forum rules). There doesn't seem to be a fair equilibrium sometimes between who is allowed to "get away with" what, and who isn't.

The bottom line is that this site is only going to grow as Blu-ray becomes more and more popular. Setting firm, but realistic rules now helps the site owner(s) maintain relative control, and hopefully not discourage potential adopters by having too much monkey business going on here.

I DO wish there was a feedback form on this site, though--preferably one that that gets copied to all admins/mods. Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find one.

[Blu-Ray Buckeye]

Originally Posted by aristotles

I feel that a total ban on discussion of either of these two topics even within the context of discussing a movie with politicial or religious themes prevents us from being able to have constructive discussions on movies of that type.

I fully support having no threads started specifically on religion or politics but if we were discussing say "The Passion of Christ" religion is likely to appear in the thread by the very nature of the film. Movies about politics or political events are also going to result in political discussions.

What you guys really should be punishing are any overt attempt to troll, defame, persecute or otherwise attack a particular religious or political group, member of said group of an individual member based on their affiliation. Such behavior should be treated in the same way as racism or sexism.

I also don't buy the "fair" moderation where both the attacker and the attacked are punished simply for engaging rather than ignoring an offense. As long at the person defending does not attack the attacker, I don't see anything wrong with clearing up misconceptions especially if they are relevant to the content or themes of a movie.

Another alternative is to create another section where people can discuss politically or religiously charged movies but I believe the same rules of punishing attackers or bullies should apply there as well.

I agree but forums are sensitive these days when trolls are rampant.

[jw]

Originally Posted by aristotles

I feel that a total ban on discussion of either of these two topics even within the context of discussing a movie with politicial or religious themes prevents us from being able to have constructive discussions on movies of that type.

I fully support having no threads started specifically on religion or politics but if we were discussing say "The Passion of Christ" religion is likely to appear in the thread by the very nature of the film. Movies about politics or political events are also going to result in political discussions.

What you guys really should be punishing are any overt attempt to troll, defame, persecute or otherwise attack a particular religious or political group, member of said group of an individual member based on their affiliation. Such behavior should be treated in the same way as racism or sexism.

I also don't buy the "fair" moderation where both the attacker and the attacked are punished simply for engaging rather than ignoring an offense. As long at the person defending does not attack the attacker, I don't see anything wrong with clearing up misconceptions especially if they are relevant to the content or themes of a movie.

Another alternative is to create another section where people can discuss politically or religiously charged movies but I believe the same rules of punishing attackers or bullies should apply there as well.

This is referring to the passion of the christ movie discussion, I didnt participate in that other than an early remark, but that discussion from being about the movie to the whole religion aspect, way out of my realm to add anything as I am not that passionate about religion to sit here and discuss it not knowing all the facts.
I dont think that arguement belongs here on this forum as it doesnt relate in anyway to blu-ray

[buckshot]

and i say we take this initiative a step further and ban all discussion of lord of the rings, star wars, black bars, grain, and did i mention star wars? the penalty for mentioning these will be a flogging

[CAB]

Originally Posted by buckshot

and i say we take this initiative a step further and ban all discussion of lord of the rings, star wars, black bars, grain, and did i mention star wars? the penalty for mentioning these will be a flogging

and football. It's bound to get bad and soon.

[Merrick]

Originally Posted by CAB

and football. It's bound to get bad and soon.

And we'd better throw in American Idol, Coke vs. Pepsi, Tastes Great/Less Filling...

[WickyWoo]

And that ladies and gentleman, is a prime example of why we can't have these discussions here.

[Merrick]

Over in "Ban on discussion of religion or politics prevents film discussion" WickyWoo wrote:
"And that ladies and gentleman, is a prime example of why we can't have these discussions here."
And closed the discussion.

I've re-read every post in that thread twice again now. I think that everyone was being very respectful, and at the moment it was closed I thought that everyone was having a good time joking around. Perhaps there was something about that was seen as disrespectful to the moderators that I'm not understanding.

In any event. I've had a great time here. It was a pleasure talking to you all, but things just seem to be horrendously tense around here too much to really enjoy myself any more. I honestly hope no one will take that personally - it's much more intended as a statement about myself than about anyone else.

God bless all of you!

[shug7272]

Originally Posted by Merrick

Over in "Ban on discussion of religion or politics prevents film discussion" WickyWoo wrote:
"And that ladies and gentleman, is a prime example of why we can't have these discussions here."
And closed the discussion.

I've re-read every post in that thread twice again now. I think that everyone was being very respectful, and at the moment it was closed I thought that everyone was having a good time joking around. Perhaps there was something about that was seen as disrespectful to the moderators that I'm not understanding.

In any event. I've had a great time here. It was a pleasure talking to you all, but things just seem to be horrendously tense around here too much to really enjoy myself any more. I honestly hope no one will take that personally - it's much more intended as a statement about myself than about anyone else.

God bless all of you!

Wait a minute.. are you serious? They are giving out fish? HELL YEA. Hope its fried. Im going to find that post.