Diffrent audio options

[s0nIc]

Whats up guys so I have decided to get a pioneer 1019 in april when it comes out and just start getting some good blu rays ready for when i hook it up So while i was at wal mart I picked up Black hawk Down and Shooter each 15.00 a piece.I looked at the back of Black hawk down at the audio section it says English Pcm 5.1 what the hell does that mean<I thought that all blu rays come with tru hd audio.Am I wrong also shooter didnt say tru hd either.What is the diffrence between all these formats and which one is the best to have??

[JasonR]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820

THE NEW AUDIO CODECS FOR BLU-RAY AND HD-DVD
The new audio CODECs on high definition movies are lossless, and are identical to the audio on the original master. The three lossless CODECs supported by Blu-Ray Disc and HD-DVD are LPCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA. The difference between the three is the number of bits they use on the disc. LPCM is not compressed and takes a lot more space. Both Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD are compressed like a Zip file and use far less space, allowing more space on the disc for other features. LPCM also supports a higher sample rate than TrueHD or DTS HD, but remember that the sample rate is higher than most studio masters. It is estimated that a 2 hour movie with a 16-bit/24-bit, 5.1 soundtrack requires 4.14GB with LPCM versus 1.26GB for either TrueHD or DTS HD.

LPCM
LPCM has existed since the days of CDs, but now it can carry 5.1 or 7.1 channels of audio, at higher sampling rates and bit depth as opposed to the 2 channel audio found on CDs. A PCM audio track is an exact copy of the original master, encoded on disc without compression. The main benefit is that it is simpler and maintains the quality of the master without any degradation that may occur from using a compression technique. The chief disadvantage is that it takes a lot of disc space. LPCM support is mandatory for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players. Although the Blu-Ray Disc format is capable of using LPCM up to 24-bit resolution, studios may decide to use 16-bit resolution to save bandwidth, or if the bit resolution of the master does not require 24-bit encoding. LPCM is uncompressed audio, so it requires a lot of storage space.

Cables Needed: Toslink (Optical) or Coaxial S/PDIF cannot carry a 5.1 LPCM signal, so the signal will be reduced to 2 channels only. However, any version of HDMI connection can carry the LPCM signal in full quality. Multi-Channel Analog Cables can also be used (see footnote).

DOLBY TrueHD
Dolby TrueHD is a lossless compression codec. Although it is compressed to use less disc space than a PCM track, once decoded it is identical to the original master. Dolby TrueHD supports up to eight full-range channels (with room for expansion) of 24-bit/96 kHz audio (at the discretion of the studio) up to a maximum of 18Mbps bit rate. Support for Dolby TrueHD is optional for Blu-Ray players and mandatory for HD-DVD players.

Cables Needed: Toslink (Optical) or Coaxial S/PDIF cannot carry a TrueHD signal and will automatically play the standard Dolby Digital AC-3 track instead. If the player converts the TrueHD to PCM, the signal can be transmitted over any version of HDMI. If the TrueHD signal is transmitted via bitstream, HDMI 1.3 will be needed. Multi-Channel Analog Cables can also be used (see footnote).

DTS-HD MASTER AUDIO
DTS-HD Master Audio, previously known as DTS++, is another lossless audio codec similar to Dolby TrueHD. Although a DTS-HD MA track takes up more disc space than a TrueHD track, it does not require a secondary standard DTS Digital track for backward compatibility. DTS-HD Master Audio encodes virtually an unlimited number of channels at resolution of up to 24 bits and 192kHz and can downmix to 5.1 or 2 channels.

The use of DTS-HD Master Audio is optional for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players. On Blu-Ray Disc, DTS MA supports up to 7.1 discrete channels at 96kHz/24bit or up to 5.1 discrete channels at 192kHz/24bit and up to a variable bit rate of 24.5Mbps. On HD-DVD, the maximum bit rate is limited to 18Mbps.

Cables Needed: Same as Dolby TrueHD, except if Toslink (Optical) or Digital S/PDIF is used, the standard DTS Digital track will be played.

Decoded Dolby TrueHD = Decoded DTS HD MA = Uncompressed LPCM

[LembasBread]

On Blu-ray disc there are 3 different lossless audio options available for studios to use (All are optional and not required to be used on the movie):

PCM: an uncompressed raw data stream of the audio.

Dolby TrueHD: Dolby Lab's losslessy compressed audio codec like a ZIP or FLAC file

DTS-HD Master Audio: DTS' losslessy compressed audio codec like a ZIP or FLAC

Other audio codecs available are:

Dolby Digital: the most common codec as it also a DVD standard but is usually found at higher bitrates on Blu-ray

DTS: the second most common codec also used on DVD but also usually found at a full bitrate of 1509kbps which most audiophiles argue sounds better than Dolby Digital.

Dolby Digital-Plus: a higher bitrate, but still lossy version of Dolby Digital that was a standard on HD DVD but optional on Blu-ray. A step up from Dolby Digital but a step down from Dolby TrueHD.

DTS-HD High Resolution: DTS' answer to DD+ and once again still lossy but a step above DTS and a step down from DTS-HD Master Audio

Out of all those codecs, AFAIK, the only one that is required on a disc is some form of Dolby Digital. Blu-ray Disc players are required to decode both Dolby Digital and DTS as well as play back multi-channel PCM. All other codecs and decoders are all optional in the Blu-ray spec.

Now as far as Black Hawk Down goes, Sony Pictures has the great habit of including lossless audio on 100% of their titles from day one. Their earlier releases such as this utilized uncompressed PCM. Later on when Dolby TrueHD decoding became more common on players and receivers, Sony Pictures moved to including Dolby TrueHD on their titles who's benefits were two fold: 1) it allowed for higher resolution at lower bit rates and 2) it allowed for lossless audio at lower bitrates due to it being variable bit rate as opposed to the constant bit rate that PCM requires.

Shooter on the other hand, which is distributed by Paramount, has lossy Dolby Digital at 640kbps. During the early days of Blu-ray Disc, Paramount had the bad habit of not including any of the lossless options (PCM, TrueHD, or Master Audio) on any of their titles. Then of course they disappeared from Blu-ray for quite a while to distribute HD DVD only. When they returned to Blu-ray they changed their ways for the better and all of their releases include mostly TrueHD options and have used DTS-HD Master Audio on Top Gun.

It's a shame that with the space and bandwidth of Blu-ray (25/50gb's & 40Mbps respectively) that Paramount gave movies the shaft by not using the disc's full potential of glorious 24-bit lossless audio. Almost all of the studios use either PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master on every release now. The only exception is Warner. While they've gotten better with almost all of their releases including TrueHD, they still let some slip through with plain Dolby Digital i.e. Nights in Rodanthe. That and while they do use TrueHD, it's capped at 16-bit while other studios are regularly using 20 or 24-bit TrueHD.

There's technically no audible difference between PCM, TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio. All things equal, they're all lossless neither one is better than the other. Just avoid when the box only says Dolby Digital. While the mix may still sound great, just know that PCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD Master Audio will sound better. Hope that cleared things up!

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by LembasBread

Out of all those codecs, AFAIK, the only one that is required on a disc is some form of Dolby Digital. Blu-ray Disc players are required to decode both Dolby Digital and DTS as well as play back multi-channel PCM. All other codecs and decoders are all optional in the Blu-ray spec.

Dolby Digital is not a required format on BD. No one format is required. Rather, there has to be at least one PCM, DD, or DTS track on a disc. Fox only uses dts-MA tracks, for example, which qualify because any player can output the DTS core track.

[blujacket]

Shooter is plain Dolby Digital, but a good audio track for what it's worth.