Audio output/headroom question

[gamer2600]

Just got my Denon 2309 on Friday and have been spending the weekend messing around with it. I bought new speakers as well Aperion Audio 5.1 setup although I do not have my sub yet cause it is on back order.

I feel like I am not getting the output/headroom I should be getting and maybe it is because I don't have the sub hooked up or maybe it is because I didn't do the Auydessy setup yet. It just doesn't seem like it is as loud as it should be. The receiver goes from -80db to +something (haven't turned it all the way up), but it doesn't get any decent volume until I reach about -10db to -6db. Is that normal? Do you think this will change when I do the auto EQ setup and get the sub in there.

NOTE: Right now I have a Comcast box with HDMI going into the receiver and a PS3 with HDMI going into the receiver and then one HDMI going to TV from the receiver's output. The PS3 is set to output Linear PCM over HDMI.

[Driver_King]

Yes, when you get your sub and calibrate everything, it should sound louder and more balanced. I watch most movies around -5 or +0. Sometimes more, sometimes less. When I have it louder, I normally turn it down after a while.

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by gamer2600

Just got my Denon 2309 on Friday and have been spending the weekend messing around with it. I bought new speakers as well Aperion Audio 5.1 setup although I do not have my sub yet cause it is on back order.

I feel like I am not getting the output/headroom I should be getting and maybe it is because I don't have the sub hooked up or maybe it is because I didn't do the Auydessy setup yet. It just doesn't seem like it is as loud as it should be. The receiver goes from -80db to +something (haven't turned it all the way up), but it doesn't get any decent volume until I reach about -10db to -6db. Is that normal? Do you think this will change when I do the auto EQ setup and get the sub in there.

NOTE: Right now I have a Comcast box with HDMI going into the receiver and a PS3 with HDMI going into the receiver and then one HDMI going to TV from the receiver's output. The PS3 is set to output Linear PCM over HDMI.

Well, I can think of two reasons that it's requiring you to turn the volume more. First, not sure which set of 5.1 speakers you got from Aperion, but all of them aren't the most efficient in the world. For comparisons sake, the towers in the cheapest 5.1 setup that Aperion lists are 87 sensitivity, compared to a Klipsch tower which has 96 (Klipsch are known for their efficiency). So I'm not sure what you upgraded from, but more than likely this is the biggest factor. The second is that maybe 100 watts isn't enough to make them sing, and the speakers just want more power. Looks like the towers have a recommend amplification of 50-200. My guess though, is that it's just the efficiency of the speaker that makes them seem not as loud to you. The calibration and sub will help balance everything out, but I'm not sure if that alone will make it seem like you have to turn up your speakers more.

PS. I really enjoy the styling of your Aperions (whichever you chose); they have a great finish to them!

[cravnsn]

This is going to be an unpopular viewpoint, but I’ve always found Denon to be lacking in the “punch” category. I bought a Denon receiver back in the 80’s and ended up trading it in for an Adcom amp & pre-amp. Then in 1999, I bought another Denon receiver, and the same was true. Tonality wise, great equipment, but when it cam time to deliver on making an impact on the sound, the unit fell flat. I’m not talking about reproducing ear splitting levels, but when a simple sound like a drum has no dynamics to it, that’s a bad sign. BTW – I had Klipsch at the time.

[gamer2600]

Originally Posted by Intamin

Well, I can think of two reasons that it's requiring you to turn the volume more. First, not sure which set of 5.1 speakers you got from Aperion, but all of them aren't the most efficient in the world. For comparisons sake, the towers in the cheapest 5.1 setup that Aperion lists are 87 sensitivity, compared to a Klipsch tower which has 96 (Klipsch are known for their efficiency). So I'm not sure what you upgraded from, but more than likely this is the biggest factor. The second is that maybe 100 watts isn't enough to make them sing, and the speakers just want more power. Looks like the towers have a recommend amplification of 50-200. My guess though, is that it's just the efficiency of the speaker that makes them seem not as loud to you. The calibration and sub will help balance everything out, but I'm not sure if that alone will make it seem like you have to turn up your speakers more.

PS. I really enjoy the styling of your Aperions (whichever you chose); they have a great finish to them!

They are not towers they are 5 series bookshelfs for left and right 5 series for center channel and 4 series for back surrounds. They say 50-150 watts for their needs. I just feel like I should be getting more headroom than I currently am. I mean is having your receiver at -6db normal?

[Driver_King]

You could only know if it's normal once you get everything calibrated and you add your sub. You can always adjust the volume levels if you still don't think it's loud enough.

[gamer2600]

I guess what I am getting at do you think I will need a seperate amp to hookup with the Denon to be able to really drive these speakers they way they should be? If that is the case I assume I need a 5 channel amp with probably about 200 watts per channel? If I do hook up a seperate amp to the Denon receiver does that bypass the Denon amp portion or does it just add to its power as well?

[musicman1999]

An external amp will replace the amp section of the receiver that you attach it to. The others that have mentioned it are correct, wait for your sub and properly calibrate your audio before you decide that you don't like it.Also the poster that mentioned the speaker efficiency has a good point.

bill

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by gamer2600

They are not towers they are 5 series bookshelfs for left and right 5 series for center channel and 4 series for back surrounds. They say 50-150 watts for their needs. I just feel like I should be getting more headroom than I currently am. I mean is having your receiver at -6db normal?

Looks like those bookshelves range from 84-86 sensitivity, which basically means you need to turn your volume up more to achieve a loud volume compared to speakers that are more efficient. So yes, having your receiver at -6db sounds normal to me. Once you do the calibration and everything though, you can adjust the volumes of the speakers, and then you may not end up having it at -6db to get the volume you want. But calibrate everything before looking into getting a separate amp, and looking at your receiver, it doesn't look like it has preouts to run an external amp to begin with.

[cravnsn]

It sounds like the Denon & Onkyo set up in a similar fashion. On my Onkyo 605, I run the Audessey calibration, the results might say fronts at +3, surrounds at -2…and so on. What I usually do is set the loudest speakers (the front) to +12, and then up the volume/output for all the other speakers, keeping the “level difference” the same, i.e. if the fronts are +3 and the surrounds are -2, then I make the fronts +12 and the surrounds +7, for a difference of 5. That way, the overall volume is louder to start with. Also, in the set-up screen, there’s an option for each input to have a beginning volume level, which I also have set to +12. This means I don’t have to ramp up the volume control to get good volume.

If this is the wrong approach, please let me know.

[musicman1999]

Wrong approach, setting the volume levels for each channel is a key component of calibrating your audio, when you jack them up by 10 you throw that out.

bill