If they view HD DVD as short term as the XBox, it's good to stick to PS3

[joeorc]

Rings of Ire
Microsoft roiled the gaming world Thursday by taking a $1 billion charge to take care of problems with its Xbox 360. NEWSWEEK’s N’gai Croal talks to Xbox chief Peter Moore about the decision.

problem:
NEWSWEEK: All right. You're live and direct.
Peter Moore: OK. Let me take you though what we've just announced about 15-20 minutes ago. You know about the fundamentals. Business is strong; we're going to have a good E3, but to cut to the chase, there's something we haven't done so well, and that's that the rate of repairs that have been coming in showing the three-flashing-red-lights error message has been, quite frankly, unacceptable to us. So we've decided to take some steps to take care of that.

Peter Moore
John Smock / AP
Peter Moore
Firstly, we're making improvements to the console itself that will reduce the occurrence of these issues. But perhaps more importantly, we're implementing an enhanced warranty program to cover the general hardware failures, the ones that are indicated by the three flashing red lights. So we're announcing a specific warranty coverage extension to three years for any console that displays the three-red-light error message. If you get that, we'll repair the console, free of charge, including shipping, for three years from the purchase date. And perhaps equally important, for the people who have already paid us to get it fixed out of warranty, we're going to retroactively reimburse any customer that's had that problem and has paid us to fix their box—from the get-go. So we will be able to take care of everybody that's had this message from launch onwards. And the three-year warranty will be in place immediately, and will cover every box that's been bought or is about to be bought.

How did you determine the three-year period for the extension to the warranty?
Three years seems like a reasonable amount of time for somebody to have a piece of consumer electronics of this nature. We felt—certainly, I think it's unprecedented that someone's had a longer warranty on a console than this. I can't remember. But we felt three years—and certainly, the folks we've spoken to in the last half hour and some of the community feedback seem to think that this is more than fair. If you're a gamer and for three years we cover you, then we feel that you've gotten good value from the box. It's not an exact science. Two years, three years, it felt like fairness more than anything else for us.


Can you say whether it was a flaw in the design or the manufacturing?
No. I can't say that, no.

Did you consider a recall?
No. This is not a recall issue. This is not a systemic problem, this is not a safety issue, this is a completely voluntary action on our part. Nobody's forcing us to do anything here. We're just trying to do the right thing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19640605...wsweek/page/0/


well first off in my OPINION its a design flaw
Peter Moore
Firstly, we're making improvements to the console itself that will reduce the occurrence of these issues.

ruduce ..not fix..great

and second (3 years) 3 years

MOORE:
Three years seems like a reasonable amount of time for somebody to have a piece of consumer electronics of this nature.

thats why SONY has commited to 10 years while Microsofts is ..what 3 years...oop:

ITS VERY CLEAR TO ME who is thinking long tem for HARDWARE support and not short term.

[JTK]

Good stuff.

Now all Sony needs to do is meet developers halfway so this growing and very annoying trend in the following links gets put down post haste:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=10954

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

^^ This sort of thing should not be happening.

[joeorc]

you know what realy gets under my skin though is

the first xbox had great hardware but only on a (4) year support cycle.
well:

..good news for xbox360 fans 2009 a new game system from microsoft gets released...?
and xbox360 support drops like a rock.i cannot wait..


if microsoft does this which by past experience shows they will. than thats alright i will not support them for a system they intend to kick to the curb every (4) year's

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by JTK

Good stuff.

Now all Sony needs to do is meet developers halfway so this growing and very annoying trend in the following links gets put down post haste:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=10954

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

^^ This sort of thing should not be happening.

this is why this trend will stop. because do not even think for 1 min that this so called "trend" will keep the developers from producing SOME of the best gameing experiences in the entire industry.

..btw: this is all in game:






the video:
http://stage6.divx.com/user/y2kev/vi...venly-Sword---

http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...hread.id=93989

[movies3]

Originally Posted by joeorc

you know what realy gets under my skin though is

the first xbox had great hardware but only on a (4) year support cycle.
well:

..good news for xbox360 fans 2009 a new game system from microsoft gets released...?
and xbox360 support drops like a rock.i cannot wait..


if microsoft does this which by past experience shows they will. than thats alright i will not support them for a system they intend to kick to the curb every (4) year's

i know thats what i dont understand about microsoft, once a new console is out the other one is out the door bye bye never heard of again. They put new ones out like every 2 yrs! where as sony its a 7 yr at least.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by JTK

Good stuff.

Now all Sony needs to do is meet developers halfway so this growing and very annoying trend in the following links gets put down post haste:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=10954

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

^^ This sort of thing should not be happening.

this is why this trend will stop. because do not even think for 1 min that this so called "trend" will keep the developers from producing SOME of the best gameing experiences in the entire industry.
Edit5: Interview with programmer of Ninja Theory. We have 3 types of cut-scenes in the game

1) Offline rendered FMV. Something in these scenes would cost too much (i.e. take too much development time) to develop on PS3 for a one shot effort. Think some fancy effects, eyeball reflections etc.

2) Rendered in-game real-time but captured and played back as an FMV.
We do this sometimes, for the simply reason it helps hide load times. So while we show you a cutscene, we can be loading the level your about to play in the background, instead of actually increasing the load time while we brought in the cutscene data (which itself can be huge, due to resolution of the animation and texture data for the close ups) also means of course there more memory for the actual game bits.

3) Rendered in-game.
As the only reason we do two is for memory/loading reasons, at other times we have the resources available so we just render them real-time.

BTW the choice between type 2 and 3 is a nice advantage of Bluray. Its a non obvious optimisation a big ol' disk lets you make. Were really tight on disk space at the moment mind, so in a few places we had to go with type 3 cos we didnt' have any more disk space for more HD movies.

Question: You will be using a dual-layer blu-ray disk?
Originally Posted by DeanoC @ PSINext:
No were single layer, we came close to being the first dual layer game but for manufacturing and cost reasons we went with single layer.

..btw: this is all in game:










http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...hread.id=93989

[JTK]

^^ Awesome stuff.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by JTK

^^ Awesome stuff.

the IE :the (500 DEVELOPERS) on heavenly sword which worked on this GAME completely filled with compression:

a single layer blu-ray disc...THAT'S (25 GB) the xbox360 could not run this game without multiple DISCS , and a re-code of the software. and it defently would not be the same game anymore.so for all those hate'ers saying blu-ray is not needed...i see proof that it does

Microsoft :
"blu-ray not needed for software"

[Shin-Ra]

Gears of War does the same thing with in-engine cutscenes captured to video but the game's fairly short and the compressed video isn't of a high enough quality to look like it's just another realtime cutscene, too much artifacting and the brightness doesn't match.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Shin-Ra

Gears of War does the same thing with in-engine cutscenes captured to video but the game's fairly short and the compressed video isn't of a high enough quality to look like it's just another realtime cutscene, too much artifacting and the brightness doesn't match.

exactly:

while the space confines of DVD9 are showing , and thats the big point IF Microsoft WOULD have used HD DVD or blu-ray The developers would not have the space limits that DVD9 has even now you can see how that is putting a limit on what they will be able to do.

at least with BLU-RAY and HD DVD you do not have this limitation. but since the xbox360 is it seems on a (4) year support cycle it does not matter to Microsoft. they can always release a new system every (4) years

[BluManta]

But... Will the new Xbox be better then the PS3??? Remember PS3 is ment to be a 10 year console. It will be out for 2 years and MS come out with a new Xbox. The newer Gen. Then what????

[WickyWoo]

Microsoft cheaped out and screwed up, yes the vagueness is infuriating, but the lawyers, and ANYONE's lawyers would hang him for "We ****ed up and designed it badly", cause then the lawsuits would start flowing like water and they'd lose every one of them. Sony never ever admitted that the CD/DVD-ROMs in the PS1 and 2 were dying because they cheaped out on parts did they? They used a cheap plastic sled on the PS1 laser assembly and cheap plastic instead of nylon on the gears, and after a year or so they were stripping and the laser was not being held straight so the system no longer read discs.

Remember that?

They've all screwed up, and they all deserve to be smacked about the head and neck for it.

the IE :the (500 DEVELOPERS) on heavenly sword which worked on this GAME completely filled with compression:

a single layer blu-ray disc...THAT'S (25 GB) the xbox360 could not run this game without multiple DISCS , and a re-code of the software. and it defently would not be the same game anymore.so for all those hate'ers saying blu-ray is not needed...i see proof that it does

First off I'd like to see how much space it actually takes up, second I want to know how many language versions are on there, and third how much 1080p video is on there(and how many different language versions w/1080p video, assuming they aren't multiplexing the audio)

My guess is that it could fit on a DVD-9 easily without those. Command and Conquer 3 as a game is only like 1.5-2GB, but add in 30min of 720p video and boom, 8GB, at least on the PC.

It's also very possible that they duplicated data all over the disc to speed loading times (that was done with oblivion) because they're not going to install 5GB to the HD.

There is a handful of PC games that require more than 1 DVD, and they support resolutions above 1080p, and many of those games with ultra-high resolutions are well under 5GB.

So no, there really aren't any games out there that need BR. Pre-rendered cutscenes are almost exclusively the fetish of Japanese developers, and at 1080p, frankly they're getting cost prohibitive when added to the budget of the rest of the game if you're looking at any length.

And I can still never figure out what this obcession of not changing discs on the few titles that need it 8,10,15,40 hours into the game.

So yes, both existing systems could definately run this game. Don't obcess over the size of the box, obcess over whether it's a great game or not. Three are plenty of very pretty games out there that are absolute ass, but sold a bajillion copies for the graphics alone.

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Microsoft cheaped out and screwed up, yes the vagueness is infuriating, but the lawyers, and ANYONE's lawyers would hang him for "We ****ed up and designed it badly", cause then the lawsuits would start flowing like water and they'd lose every one of them. Sony never ever admitted that the CD/DVD-ROMs in the PS1 and 2 were dying because they cheaped out on parts did they? They used a cheap plastic sled on the PS1 laser assembly and cheap plastic instead of nylon on the gears, and after a year or so they were stripping and the laser was not being held straight so the system no longer read discs.

Remember that?

They've all screwed up, and they all deserve to be smacked about the head and neck for it.



First off I'd like to see how much space it actually takes up, second I want to know how many language versions are on there, and third how much 1080p video is on there(and how many different language versions w/1080p video, assuming they aren't multiplexing the audio)

My guess is that it could fit on a DVD-9 easily without those. Command and Conquer 3 as a game is only like 1.5-2GB, but add in 30min of 720p video and boom, 8GB, at least on the PC.

It's also very possible that they duplicated data all over the disc to speed loading times (that was done with oblivion) because they're not going to install 5GB to the HD.

There is a handful of PC games that require more than 1 DVD, and they support resolutions above 1080p, and many of those games with ultra-high resolutions are well under 5GB.

So no, there really aren't any games out there that need BR. Pre-rendered cutscenes are almost exclusively the fetish of Japanese developers, and at 1080p, frankly they're getting cost prohibitive when added to the budget of the rest of the game if you're looking at any length.

And I can still never figure out what this obcession of not changing discs on the few titles that need it 8,10,15,40 hours into the game.

So yes, both existing systems could definately run this game. Don't obcess over the size of the box, obcess over whether it's a great game or not. Three are plenty of very pretty games out there that are absolute ass, but sold a bajillion copies for the graphics alone.

your OPINION both systems can run the game does not make it a fact. i am sorry, but the Developer has said the xbox360 Cannot run this game ..just like cliffy b, said the playstation 3 cannot run the Gears of War.Why because the game was coded for the systems in mind.

excuse me are you a developer for this game...?, what the hell does it matter the game would not be the same game anymore... yes,..you could cut corners even further to make it fit. on DVD 9..but it would not be the Same game. GOD the same D@mn crap WAS said about DVD. its not about here and now its about the future. kojima One of the most respected Developer's in the entire industry, has said He would like to have more space than even a blu-ray Dlayer disc for metal gear solid :4..and yes he said Metal gear solid :4 could run on the xbox360..."but he also said it would not be the same game".

So you may not care about FMV in your game but FMV gives the game a better experience. to the person playing the game ..well maybe not in your case.
did you even watch the video's , this game has taken up all the space of the disc. and still they had to cut corners , and that's with compression.

and yes they all deserved to be smacked if they use substandard parts for their systems i agree.ALL THREE companies have used substandard parts one time or another , but unlike Microsoft Sony did not kick their system to the curb for game support after only (4) years. where is the support for the xbox for games like the playstation (2) for seven years.....because all the developers are makeing the games for the playstation 2. look at the first party developers for both MICROSOFT and SONY. which puts more support for their systems.

as of right now Microsoft kicked their first xbox to the curb. just like their backward compatability with the xbox360. if their stance is to remain every (4) years put out a new system and than pull 1st party support from their previous system. which Microsoft has done. than i SEE no point in supporting their system. that's just me though. i do think that THE xbox360 has some great games, and even the first xbox the same but Microsoft has not changed their stance on their support cycle. and until they do i will keep voiceing my OPINION. just like My Opinion on blu-ray is showing that it was indeed needed

even with Microsofts OWN OS Vista needing 15 GB of hard drive space. flight sim. x (14 GB) , Vista NEED'S 15 GB, compared:
to windows XP pro less than 2 GB.

THE OS JUMPS 13 GB and yet that's more than a DL. DVD and yet Microsoft says BLU-RAY is not needed. of course they would say that because Microsoft wants to elimanate all physical disc media.

Richard Doherty, MS program for Media Entertainment Convergence
“I don’t know that [HD] will be delivered on an optical disc in five to 10 years,” he said, pointing to downloads and broadband delivery. “At Microsoft, we’d rather it wasn’t [on a disc].”

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by BluManta

But... Will the new Xbox be better then the PS3??? Remember PS3 is ment to be a 10 year console. It will be out for 2 years and MS come out with a new Xbox. The newer Gen. Then what????

the xbox360 is better hardware than the playstation 2 but yet:
the playstation 2 still has OUTSOLD THE XBOX360 every month since its been released.... ,the big reason is because SONY supports their systems . they have commited to 10 years cycle support per playstation. if over (13,000+) games between playstation 1+playstation 2 games backcatlog and now adding even more playstation 2 games and playstation 3 games does not convince people if there will be enough games. nothing will.

[Shin-Ra]

WickyWoo - there's no 1080p video on there because it's a 720p game. Sure they could not use any video at all but who wants to sit through loadtimes if they can be covered up?

C&C3 has fairly low resolution textures and they're tiled or reused an awful lot for terrain and identical looking structures. In high budget fantasy adventure games (not including Dragon Quest ) you don't see nearly as much of this. As C&C doesn't have realtime cutscenes it doesn't have a lot of animation data either.

Some developers like Insomniac favour lossless audio, even if they don't have 6 languages or whatever is it so hard to believe that games later this generation will fill more than a DVD with a single lossless language track, music, lots of quality animation data, high res textures, models and so on?

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Shin-Ra

WickyWoo - there's no 1080p video on there because it's a 720p game. Sure they could not use any video at all but who wants to sit through loadtimes if they can be covered up?

C&C3 has fairly low resolution textures and they're tiled or reused an awful lot for terrain and identical looking structures. In high budget fantasy adventure games (not including Dragon Quest ) you don't see nearly as much of this. As C&C doesn't have realtime cutscenes it doesn't have a lot of animation data either.

Some developers like Insomniac favour lossless audio, even if they don't have 6 languages or whatever is it so hard to believe that games later this generation will fill more than a DVD with a single lossless language track, music, lots of quality animation data, high res textures, models and so on?

yea alot of game because you think one will fit they all can...which is not the case at all. Cliffy.B made Gears of War that game cannot run on the playstation 3.the main reason because the way it was coded toward a central pool of ram. the playstation 3's pool is split. it does not mean they could not make a ver. of GEAR'S OF WAR for the playstation 3. not it just that right now the game will not run. because it was coded for the xbox360's hardware. just like Heavenly Sword is coded for the playstation 3.

both system's have very powerful hardware, i am not saying anything otherwise .What i am saying is because of the way the systems are designed there will be games made on the system's that will only run because the software was designed for each system that way.

[WickyWoo]

your OPINION both systems can run the game does not make it a fact. i am sorry, but the Developer has said the xbox360 Cannot run this game ..just like cliffy b, said the playstation 3 cannot run the Gears of War.Why because the game was coded for the systems in mind.

Of course they can both run both games. Battle Arena Toshinden was designed for PS1, didn't stop them from porting it to the Saturn later. You're simply talking about a few bells and whistles difference.

And of course the developer is talking down Xbox, this is an exclusive title.

So you may not care about FMV in your game but FMV gives the game a better experience. to the person playing the game ..well maybe not in your case.
did you even watch the video's , this game has taken up all the space of the disc. and still they had to cut corners , and that's with compression.

And if you notice many of my questions had nothing to do with that. You made a statement, I brought up specific reasons why a game like this could be filling a BD-25 (data replication to increase loading, redundant versions of video files for different languages, half a dozen dub tracks), all redundant stuff on the technical level that would not preclude it from running on another system just fine.

The questions I asked were not "opinion", they were a request for specific factual information using a general knowlege of standard techniques to speed up disc streaming and game load times.

as of right now Microsoft kicked their first xbox to the curb. just like their backward compatability with the xbox360. if their stance is to remain every (4) years put out a new system and than pull 1st party support from their previous system. which Microsoft has done.

Actually they've been pretty upfront for years that XB1 was a money pit designed to learn the buis, Notice Sony doing the same thing with backwards compat to reduce manufacturing costs, and the huge number of games refusing to work until it's patched.

the playstation 2 still has OUTSOLD THE XBOX360 every month since its been released.... ,the big reason is because SONY supports their systems . they have commited to 10 years cycle support per playstation

Go ahead and believe that. Sony has no first party PS2 games in development whatsoever of any consequence. They did the same thing MS did, it's just that they know that with their 120 million install base, the third parties will continue supporting it as a bargain system for several more years. This especially backfired because they inteded for PS3 to sell a lot faster than it has. Sony wants to dump PS2 as soon as possible to get PS3 in theforefront. MS just decided they could afford to piss off the 20 million or so that bought XB becuase 60-70% of them would upgrade in the first couple years anyway.

WickyWoo - there's no 1080p video on there because it's a 720p game. Sure they could not use any video at all but who wants to sit through loadtimes if they can be covered up?

How do you know it's not 1080p video? Just because the game renders at 720 does not preclude the use of 1080 video. You can bet Final Fantasy XIII will run the game at 720 and the video at 1080

Some developers like Insomniac favour lossless audio, even if they don't have 6 languages or whatever is it so hard to believe that games later this generation will fill more than a DVD with a single lossless language track, music, lots of quality animation data, high res textures, models and so on?

Animation data simply does not take up that much space, and while great, PCM audio will very likely not remain a standard feature for very long,remember that 90% of the end users or more will never notice, and with the ability to devote an entire core to audio decompression, you're far more likely to start seeing TrueHD on there to save space and bandwidth.

My point is not that some games will not require more than 8GB, it's that 90%+ of them won't, once you strip away redundant dub tracks or craploads of hires cutscene video, and that 99% of them certainly would fit on 2 DVDs, probably WITH all features intact.

And that the "it could only be done on Blu-ray" is factually incorrect and simply fanboy drool. Right now at least, as developers keep stating, the hardware is functionally identical when it comes to real-world power, and based on looking at a ton of PC games, I see nothing that can't be done in far less data than BR would be required for.

[Shin-Ra]

Wow, as if they'd run the game and video at different resolutions, I'm amazed you used that argument.

I'm also amazed you can't see more than 10% of games going over a 9GB limit that so many games already come close to. You seriously think games aren't going to get more impressive with more unique HQ assets several years from now?

Would you rather have had Gears of War with overcompressed looking end of level videos or videos that are indistinguishable from in-engine cutscenes?

Of course things can be made to be inferior quality and fit on DVD.

[joeorc]

you wrote this:

Actually they've been pretty upfront for years that XB1 was a money pit designed to learn the buis, Notice Sony doing the same thing with backwards compat to reduce manufacturing costs, and the huge number of games refusing to work until it's patched.

thats the thing sony cares about backward compatability....

do not even try to even say that out of 16,900 games from the playstation 1+2 less than 2000 games had problems most would work with a few glitches. do not even try to put the backward compatability issue that microsoft has compared to sony Microsoft is not even close ..nore do they even realy care. about backward compatability

you again:


Of course they can both run both games. Battle Arena Toshinden was designed for PS1, didn't stop them from porting it to the Saturn later. You're simply talking about a few bells and whistles difference.

--------

And of course the developer is talking down Xbox, this is an exclusive title.

THEY SAID it could not run because the way its coded its the same as GEARS OF WAR..its not just bells an whistles..the games are made for the system they were designed for. and some games cannot be ported. they have to be re-coded from the ground up.

you again:

Go ahead and believe that. Sony has no first party PS2 games in development whatsoever of any consequence. They did the same thing MS did, it's just that they know that with their 120 million install base, the third parties will continue supporting it as a bargain system for several more years. This especially backfired because they inteded for PS3 to sell a lot faster than it has. Sony wants to dump PS2 as soon as possible to get PS3 in theforefront. MS just decided they could afford to piss off the 20 million or so that bought XB becuase 60-70% of them would upgrade in the first couple years anyway.

all sony new releases for the PS 2
SingStar Amped
Wild ARMs 5
EyeToy: Play 3
Syphon Filter: Dark Mirror
Buzz Junior: Jungle Party
NBA '08
Buzz! The Mega Quiz
Hot Shots Tennis
Ape Escape: Million Monkeys
NBA '07
ATV Offroad Fury 4
Buzz! : The Schools Quiz
SingStar '90s (Bundle with Microphone)
Pursuit Force: Extreme Justice
Buzz! Junior: Monsters

thats just for 2007 and more games to be announced at E3 for the playstation 2 from Sony

all playstation systems have a 10 year support cycle..none of the other system sellers have said we will support their system for 10 years except for SONY. thats a fact SONY does not drop the support for their systems at the drop of a hat.

______________

you again

And that the "it could only be done on Blu-ray" is factually incorrect and simply fanboy drool. Right now at least, as developers keep stating, the hardware is functionally identical when it comes to real-world power, and based on looking at a ton of PC games, I see nothing that can't be done in far less data than BR would be required for.

---------------
your statement is OPINION and i respect that but what i said its not incorrect. because no matter what if you strip things out of a game its no longer the same game . thus what they have on the disc is needed for what ever reason. you cannot base that blu-ray is not needed on What PC games take and what these game systems take and expect that to be FACTS they are not the same design. what may take less space for a game on the PC can be less space or more space it all depends on the developer.

hell alot of the game's on PC are still on CD and more and more games are moveing to DVD. it depends on what the developer wants the game to be. the point is each increase in size on the DISC for ammount of space is there for the developer if they want it. if that means more unique art for textures instead of say relying on procedural synthesis.

[WickyWoo]

Actually they've been pretty upfront for years that XB1 was a money pit designed to learn the buis, Notice Sony doing the same thing with backwards compat to reduce manufacturing costs, and the huge number of games refusing to work until it's patched.

thats the thing sony cares about backward compatability....

do not even try to even say that out of 16,900 games from the playstation 1+2 less than 2000 games had problems most would work with a few glitches. do not even try to put the backward compatability issue that microsoft has compared to sony Microsoft is not even close ..nore do they even realy care. about backward compatability

You do realize that there aren't actually 16,900 games for PS2. That's counting all the foreign versions of games, the greatest hits reissues, everything. There haven't been 16,000 individual titles for every game system ever made COMBINED.

And of course the developer is talking down Xbox, this is an exclusive title.

THEY SAID it could not run because the way its coded its the same as GEARS OF WAR..its not just bells an whistles..the games are made for the system they were designed for. and some games cannot be ported. they have to be re-coded from the ground up.

You mean like every other game out there, where you have to write different code for different hardware? Just like EA has to do on Madden? Or any other cross-platform publisher? The TWEAKS are hardware specific, but the main base code is fully portable.

It's absolute bull that huge portions of the code for both games is not fully and easily portable.

SingStar Amped
Wild ARMs 5
EyeToy: Play 3
Syphon Filter: Dark Mirror
Buzz Junior: Jungle Party
NBA '08
Buzz! The Mega Quiz
Hot Shots Tennis
Ape Escape: Million Monkeys
NBA '07
ATV Offroad Fury 4
Buzz! : The Schools Quiz
SingStar '90s (Bundle with Microphone)
Pursuit Force: Extreme Justice
Buzz! Junior: Monsters

And not a single one of those is a blockbuster. They may be reliable money makers, but they're A- all sequels to existing middlerange franchises,, or B- bargain software. How many weeks do you really think for example it takes to put together a new Singstar game? They don't even use seperate music/vocal tracks, it's a singalong over the music videos.

all playstation systems have a 10 year support cycle..none of the other system sellers have said we will support their system for 10 years except for SONY. thats a fact SONY does not drop the support for their systems at the drop of a hat.

Except you keep ignoring the part where yes, they will sell the hardware, yes, there will be new games, but they didn't say that any of them would be that great or expensive to develop. As long as they will fix your console and occasionally produce a game, the statement is not factually untrue.

your statement is OPINION and i respect that but what i said its not incorrect. because no matter what if you strip things out of a game its no longer the same game . thus what they have on the disc is needed for what ever reason. you cannot base that blu-ray is not needed on What PC games take and what these game systems take and expect that to be FACTS they are not the same design. what may take less space for a game on the PC can be less space or more space it all depends on the developer.

Nothing is being stripped out of the game, unless you're counting redundant dub tracks. If you don't speak the native language the game is made in, learn to read.

hell alot of the game's on PC are still on CD and more and more games are moveing to DVD. it depends on what the developer wants the game to be. the point is each increase in size on the DISC for ammount of space is there for the developer if they want it. if that means more unique art for textures instead of say relying on procedural synthesis.

They stopped making new games on CD almost entirely last spring. It's simply because they finally got sick of wasting money on pressing 6CDs where 1 DVD would do. It doesn't change the fact taht virtually all game installs are sub 5GB.

The POTENTIAL for more space, given that PC developers have been working at these resolutions for years, has proven not to be necessary in the vast majority of games. The only title I've seen that required more than 1 DVD was Medieval 2, because of the vast variety of 2000+resolution textures needed to portray that world. There's still no reason it wouldn't fit on 1 DVD (and it would really have to be downrezzed to run in that RAM space on consoles) were it made a 720p game.

When you get this game, I'd like someone with a BD-ROM to give us a volume check on it. I think you'll be suprised.