Suspiria

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by Martoto

It's almost inevitable he would be unimpressed with anything different from work that he personally approved before its release.

But that does not necessarily mean that he went around telling people he hated it. It's all second hand "he told someone ..." quotes that I've seen actually attributed to him.

He apparently was very vocal about his dislike at a screening of the Synapse where he sat in for Q+A sessions afterwards. Unfortunately no members here other than Christian Muth of Synapse actually attended that screening. It was there that he publicly used the term Greenspiria.

Don May was very vocal on a number of podcasts and blog interviews about attributing Greenspiria to Tovoli. Don't you think that if Tovoli never said these things that he'd be a little miffed about being incorrectly quoted. Does Don May have a reputation for lying? We know Tovoli oversaw portions of the Synapse transfer and gave very specific advice on how to grade certain scenes, so don't you think that the fact that the Synapse transfer is so radically different to the TLE is in itself an implicit statement that Tovoli doesn't want Suspiria to look so green?

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Shingster

He apparently was very vocal about his dislike at a screening of the Synapse where he sat in for Q+A sessions afterwards. Unfortunately no members here other than Christian Muth of Synapse actually attended that screening. It was there that he publicly used the term Greenspiria.

Don May was very vocal on a number of podcasts and blog interviews about attributing Greenspiria to Tovoli. Don't you think that if Tovoli never said these things that he'd be a little miffed about being incorrectly quoted. Does Don May have a reputation for lying? We know Tovoli oversaw portions of the Synapse transfer and gave very specific advice on how to grade certain scenes, so don't you think that the fact that the Synapse transfer is so radically different to the TLE is in itself an implicit statement that Tovoli doesn't want Suspiria to look so green?

The fact that it's two Synapse execs/employees who are the only sources of these quotes is problematic.

Don May having a penchant for exaggeration and hyperbole makes it even more so. He felt he needed to counterfactually denounce Dolby Matrix Stereo as simply a few frequencies thrown to the back in order to enhance the stature of the 4 chan mag track that Synapse had gotten access too. It was completely unnecessary as well as inaccurate. I've never even heard of another time when a company was so keen to badmouth a parallel product that was being prepared for another market that they don't even compete in before.

Like I said before, and now for the third time. I have no doubt whatsoever that Tovoli is satisfied with the grade he approved from Synapse and that looks down on and disapproves of the somehwat different efforts by TLE where he had no involvement. It stands to reason and artistic temperament, He can't approve of both. If the TLE is more green than the one that Tovoli approved as having just the right amount of green, then of course he thinks the TLE is too green. We don't even need a quote from him in order to infer that. There's no argument about which grade Tovoli prefers.

I just don't buy the few words being put in his mouth by people with a vested interest. We'd have to assume that Tovoli comes on BR.com and listens to podcasts a lot before wondering if he wouldn't be chagrined at being misquoted.

[nekromantik]

yup I got both also and prefer synapse as its bold colors are how it looked on the AB DVDs which at the time was best version.

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

BTW- Luciano Tovoli did a Masterclass presentation in Amsterdam on the 19th of this month regarding his work on THE PASSENGER. This happened to be in the same venue where the TLE "restoration" of SUSPIRIA had recently shown. Tovoli made it clear to the crowd gathered that had they been there for said "restoration" screening, what they saw was GREENSPIRIA, not the film he had actually filmed titled SUSPIRIA.

That's the quote that started it all. Don May Jr later told a similar story of Tovoli referring to the TLE Restoration as Greenspiria in interviews.

I find it very amusing that people think Don May or Christian Muth working for Synapse would libel themselves numerous times in print and on the microphone by blatantly misquoting - well not even misquoting, flat out fabricating - the words of Luciano Tovoli, a man they have worked with and no doubt want to maintain a friendly relationship with in the future. Do people really think that all that for just a tiny bit of publicity amongst the hardcore fanbase is actually worth potentially jeopardising their future relationship, or even worse a potentially public and messy lawsuit?

Shit, even if you think every single person working at Synapse are complete charlatans who will lie through their teeth just to sell one more copy of their product, you should at least credit them with basic intelligence!

[Allen Voice]

I'm happy to have both the TLE and the Synapse releases. The patina on the TLE gives the film an "old world" atmosphere without diminishing the colorful "wow" factor while the brightness of the Synapse creates a different mood. I do enjoy both versions.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Shingster

That's the quote that started it all. Don May Jr later told a similar story of Tovoli referring to the TLE Restoration as Greenspiria in interviews.

I find it very amusing that people think Don May or Christian Muth working for Synapse would libel themselves........you should at least credit them with basic intelligence!

That would not be libelous. It's no different than some sensationalist tabloid newspaper printing how some celebrity is said to be "devastated" and "furious" about something that's understandably bad news for them or just a basicu assumption about their attitude has been made but without ever getting a quote from them. It happens all the time.

And Don May's remarks about Dolby Matrix undermine efforts to enhance the stature of his intelligence. He also made uinformed, angry claims about there being no such thing as a "master print" and that it was an invented term , which with a bit of research into the jargon historically used by british film laboratories he would not have falsely claimed. So given their eagerness to take down anything regarding TLE's restoration, sometimes with counterfactual statements, it's quite reasonable to assume that Synapse would have no qualms sensationalising Tovoli's position and preference on the two versions.

All I asked was a simple question. Have the words "hate", "abortion" and "greenspiria" been quoted directly from Tovoli by anyone other than people with a vested interest? Yes or no?

[Charlie_C]

So I'm seeing this on OG 35mm a week today (no idea where they sourced it from, I expect BFI though). I will let you all know how it looks at put to bed this argument once and for all*

*Disclaimer... I will more than likely get drunk and forget.

[OgamiittoMcJ]

Originally Posted by Allen Voice

I'm happy to have both the TLE and the Synapse releases. The patina on the TLE gives the film an "old world" atmosphere without diminishing the colorful "wow" factor while the brightness of the Synapse creates a different mood. I do enjoy both versions.

yep said the same myself a few times, I enjoy both
when you watch TLE colours still look good and you tune in to that version
(if you're not comparing with Synapse)
it's a different take/mood
there is also some shots were colours are vastly different, but also a few where they're the same
and contrast differences etc

[Phaded]

Originally Posted by Charlie_C

So I'm seeing this on OG 35mm a week today (no idea where they sourced it from, I expect BFI though). I will let you all know how it looks at put to bed this argument once and for all*

*Disclaimer... I will more than likely get drunk and forget.

Wait whaaaaat, where is this? Not the Prince Albert Cinema in London by any chance is it?

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by Martoto

That would not be libelous. It's no different than some sensationalist tabloid newspaper printing how some celebrity is said to be "devastated" and "furious" about something that's understandably bad news for them or just a basicu assumption about their attitude has been made but without ever getting a quote from them. It happens all the time.

Are you a legal expert? I would argue that there is a big difference between some gossip rag saying so and so are "furious" and actually directly quoting them as making aggressive criticism against the work of a company who the person in question might actually want to potentially work with in the future.

All I asked was a simple question. Have the words "hate", "abortion" and "greenspiria" been quoted directly from Tovoli by anyone other than people with a vested interest? Yes or no?

You got your answer back when you first asked it when I stated that no member here other than Christian Muth was privy to the Amsterdamn Q+A where Tovoli supposedly made the remarks, so if you're in any way curious as to the claim of Synapse staff then I would suggest you man up and either PM Christian Muth directly, or ask the question over in the North American thread so there's a higher chance of him seeing and maybe he can clarify or backtrack his statement.

Seeing as there's no point debating this further, I'll just leave things by reiterating what I said earlier: Why would Synapse put these very specific words in Tovoli's mouth? What do they stand to gain from having Tovoli specifically use the term "Greenspiria" to renounce the TLE Restoration? They could very well have just reported that Tovoli hates the TLE Restoration and is very vocal to anyone who asks him about it, and that would have just as much "beneficial" effect in the marketing of their product and poo-pooing of the TLE as "Greenspiria Gate" has (Yeah I'm coining that term! ).

I agree with you on all your other points Martoto, but I don't think labels are quite the outrageous porky pie peddlers you seem to think they are. My cynicism only goes so far. I think they can be unprofessional and deeply mistaken and spread misinformation, and certainly in the realm of marketing and holding back on new formats they can be close to deceitful in their wording (like holding out on confirming the possibility of future 4K releases), but outright deliberate lying and misquoting people in public is another matter entirely and IMO it's a fool's game when you've got a fervent fanbase just aching to catch you out in that lie.

[oilers73]

It's ridiculous how a personal preference can be viewed as "right" or "wrong".

[leoganzi]

I also have the both Synapse and Italian releases and made my own options for a different experience.
Synapse for the 4.0 English track and TLE version with the Italian track. It's fantastic

[chlodwig]

Originally Posted by leoganzi

I also have the both Synapse and Italian releases and made my own options for a different experience.
Synapse for the 4.0 English track and TLE version with the Italian track. It's fantastic

What is the difference of the Italian tracks between the TLE and Synapse releases? I thought they are the same.

[leoganzi]

Originally Posted by chlodwig

What is the difference of the Italian tracks between the TLE and Synapse releases? I thought they are the same.

To my ears, the 5.1 Italian track on the both releases is the same audio source.
But the Italian release has a PCM Italian Mono track which is clearly different from 5.1 mix, and I personally like it.
The fact is, unlike the English track, the Italian audio for Suspiria was originally recorded in mono in the 70's. Same goes for Inferno.
So the the PCM Italian track is my personal preference, if I go with the Italian audio.

[Profondo]

For what it's worth as I recall Christian Muth engaged in unprofessional attacks on Torsten Kaiser (many deleted, some still here) as to what presentation of Suspiria was correct. I have the Italian TLE Blu-ray, the CultFilms TLE 4k, the Synapse Steel and the Italian limited Blu of the Synapse and will definitely be going for the Synapse UHD. For those disputing what look is more accurate, the new UHD with added HDR will of course be more revisionist than any previous competing transfers! (hopefully it will look wonderful)

[OgamiittoMcJ]

Originally Posted by Profondo

I have the Italian TLE Blu-ray, the CultFilms TLE 4k, the Synapse Steel and the Italian limited Blu of the Synapse and will definitely be going for the Synapse UHD. For those disputing what look is more accurate, the new UHD with added HDR will of course be more revisionist than any previous competing transfers! (hopefully it will look wonderful)

I'm not so sure about Revisionist tag being used with HDR
HDR is ext highlights white and black + WCG
neither is really dramatically changing the look

recent Casino UHD caps show how the BD look's blown out in comparison to UHD,
so sometimes HDR can make it more natural with the WCG


there was an early review posted in UHD thread

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/com...lu-ray.363634/

[Profondo]

Originally Posted by OgamiittoMcJ

I'm not so sure about Revisionist tag being used with HDR
HDR is ext highlights white and black + WCG
neither is really dramatically changing the look

recent Casino UHD caps show how the BD look's blown out in comparison to UHD,
so sometimes HDR can make it more natural with the WCG


there was an early review posted in UHD thread

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/com...lu-ray.363634/

Cheers for that Ogami, to be honest I don't really have much knowledge of HDR, I have a PS4-Pro and a mid range Sony 4k TV (900f). Whilst I have loads of games and can notice the massive difference with them I only have one UHD movie (the CultFilms Suspiria!) and can't justify the expense of a player at the moment. It sounds as if this UHD of Suspiria will sort out the overblown of the Blu-ray and should (hopefully) be THE final word (and be the release to push me to invest in a player)

[oilers73]

If it looks good to you, it's the correct version.

[GasmaskAvenger]

The TLE restoration, as i've said before, looks too teal and orange'd for my liking, so i'm going for the Synapse 4K UHD, which will again preserve the three strip TechniColor look i'm used to.

(That said, TLE usually does great work, they just missed the mark on Suspiria).

[chlodwig]

Originally Posted by leoganzi

To my ears, the 5.1 Italian track on the both releases is the same audio source.
But the Italian release has a PCM Italian Mono track which is clearly different from 5.1 mix, and I personally like it.
The fact is, unlike the English track, the Italian audio for Suspiria was originally recorded in mono in the 70's. Same goes for Inferno.
So the the PCM Italian track is my personal preference, if I go with the Italian audio.

Thank you for clearing that up. When mono was the original than I would also prefer it or at least would like to have the choice.