I've had it with Millcreek

[RillIris]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Mill Creek’s other SteelBook releases at all. They just released a SteelBook edition of the Street Fighter movie that actually features new extras, plus like all Mill Creek SteelBook releases it includes a slipcover also like the Lionsgate SteelBook’s people have been raving about. They have done a few others like this also, including Mothra and the animated Metropolis which I own from them.

They definitely have two tiers of releases anymore. You have the things where they clearly put some time and effort in like their SteelBook’s, Ultraman, and select other series. Then you have their releases that do use weird packaging and cram way too many episodes of something onto a DVD release. I personally feel like they should create a sub brand for their higher tier releases, would probably help them get more and better attention than they do.

Granted the SteelBooks for Ultraman were always going to be a bit divisive due to having to use stacked disc, but you want to see proof that they care about their Ultraman releases it’s that not only did you have that SteelBook option but a standard case also, and that the standard case option does not use stacked disc or envelopes like their lower tier titles at all. A couple of the Ultraman series do get into the too much content on a single disc territory, but still not as bad as their budget releases, and they are releasing the Ultraman sets at a price higher than their budget titles but still like 1/2 of what a different label would. I do have one of their actual budget DVD releases, and that’s nice as it gave me a way to own a series I wanted, but the quality honestly is similar to a top notch VHS recording, so could be worse but certainly isn’t good especially for a DVD. Even the worst of the Ultraman DVD only releases so far, looks notably better than that, plus the packaging and booklet are nicely done.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I find this pretty much impossible to believe. I can't count the number of scratched discs I receive from all vendors and studios. Box sets, individual releases, stacked, non-stacked, sleeves, blu-ray, UHD, CDs, DVDs. Doesn't matter. Stacking increases the chances of damage without question, but I get tons of them even on individual hubs. If you aren't seeing scratches, you aren't looking. Or you're lying.

I received 2 completely scratched brand new BDs just last week that were damaged due to stacking.

[jzbadblood]

I like their Retro VHS releases, but the transfers are never amazing. 3 out 5 on the Video quality scale if not less. When you see the logo you know you're not getting something great. It's like the Vestron releases.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I find this pretty much impossible to believe. I can't count the number of scratched discs I receive from all vendors and studios. Box sets, individual releases, stacked, non-stacked, sleeves, blu-ray, UHD, CDs, DVDs. Doesn't matter. Stacking increases the chances of damage without question, but I get tons of them even on individual hubs. If you aren't seeing scratches, you aren't looking. Or you're lying.

Yeah knock on wood I’ve basically only had bad issues with DVD’s being scratched up when stacked, which isn’t surprising given it’s softer plastic on plastic. I do get the occasional scratched up Blu-ray, but I wouldn’t say I’ve had notably more issues with stacked disc than ones coming off a clean hub. Actually probably see more issues with the 2 partially overlapping disc SteelBook releases than anything else, usually from the top disc getting pressed into the hub of the lower disc in shipping. I had to exchange a couple of Mill Creek’s Ultraman SteelBook’s due to damage to the case itself, not a single scratched disc though. The Universal The Mummy Ultimate Collection SteelBook which also stacked disc though, my first copy of it all but the DVD was pretty badly scratched up, a prong on one hub also was broken off and literally was imbedded into the top of one disc. That was definitely an extreme rarity for me though as usually I find issue with one maybe two disc, not literally everything in a set.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

I received 2 completely scratched brand new BDs just last week that were damaged due to stacking.

Something interesting I don’t know if allot of people realize, disc generally show up from the replicators stacked before they are even packaged. This is why the bad circular scratches on disc are actually nearly as common on disc from regular cases as from ones where they are stacked. Especially the bottom disc from a large stack on a spindle are more likely to get scratched prior to packaging due to the weight of the other disc on top of it. My most recent scratched disc had numerous circular scratches where it was obvious the disc was severely rubbing against something, but was in a standard Blu-ray case, and it definitely wasn’t rubbing against the plastic inside the case itself. Unfortunately disc just do come direct from the factories already damaged, just like how it’s been discovered allot of SteelBook releases have spine slashes sealed under the shrink wrap, as it’s not the store that actually did it.

[joonskeezle]

Originally Posted by RillIris

Something interesting I don’t know if allot of people realize, disc generally show up from the replicators stacked before they are even packaged. This is why the bad circular scratches on disc are actually nearly as common on disc from regular cases as from ones where they are stacked. Especially the bottom disc from a large stack on a spindle are more likely to get scratched prior to packaging due to the weight of the other disc on top of it. My most recent scratched disc had numerous circular scratches where it was obvious the disc was severely rubbing against something, but was in a standard Blu-ray case, and it definitely wasn’t rubbing against the plastic inside the case itself. Unfortunately disc just do come direct from the factories already damaged, just like how it’s been discovered allot of SteelBook releases have spine slashes sealed under the shrink wrap, as it’s not the store that actually did it.

They absolutely are not.

I have almost never seen a concentric scratch on a disc that wasn't stacked in the case. And I'm conceding "almost" because I genuinely don't recall EVER seeing it happen.

Furthermore, in the stacked collections where there are concentric scratches, I've never seen the bottom disc have such scratches. In the P&R set and the Community set, it was only the discs resting on top of other discs that had those scratches.

Not saying it's impossible for non-stacked discs to have those scratches. I'm saying that stacking discs dramatically and demonstrably increases the likelihood of those scratches.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by joonskeezle

They absolutely are not.

I have almost never seen a concentric scratch on a disc that wasn't stacked in the case. And I'm conceding "almost" because I genuinely don't recall EVER seeing it happen.

Furthermore, in the stacked collections where there are concentric scratches, I've never seen the bottom disc have such scratches. In the P&R set and the Community set, it was only the discs resting on top of other discs that had those scratches.

Not saying it's impossible for non-stacked discs to have those scratches. I'm saying that stacking discs dramatically and demonstrably increases the likelihood of those scratches.

I’ve gotten plenty of disk with those scratches over the years that weren’t stacked, I’d actually say concentric scratches in any case where there isn’t a floater are the more common scratch to see full stop. I remember the LOTR extended DVD’s I had to exchange 2 of the 3 due to this, and you could tell plainly from the packaging there was no way for those scratches to have come from the case whatsoever. I am saying stacking can contribute, but also saying you’d be surprised how common that kind of scratch is even in a normal hubbed case.

The reason as I found out is the disc when they arrive for packaging are in giant stacks on spindles, very similar to how you’d buy blank CD’s in bulk on a spindle but a bigger stack, and are pulled off one by one into the cases. Ultimately the actual bottom disc is usually well protected as it’s only the center resting against something in these heaps, but the disc directly on top of that one at the bottom will have 50 plus disc atop it initially. That’s allot of weight, and any bit of dust coupled with the disc spinning can result in some bad scratches. For shipping purposes those stacks should be transported on their sides as it removes that pressure, but if they are shipped standing up then you’re likely going to have bad concentric scratches on a number of especially those lower disc before they are even put into cases.

[RillIris]

Oh and another issue that contributes is the labels some studios use, if they aren’t perfectly smooth then when stacked the label on top of one disc can act like sandpaper to another. I note this as some actual cases don’t actually elevate the disc off the plastic of the case even which is absurd but is what it is, but you don’t usually see scratches anyway because the plastic is a perfectly slick surface.

[Alex82]

I cry a little every time I see that Mill Creek will release a TV show that I like.

The true culprits, however, are the big studios. They just sit on their shows and license them to indie labels. One can argue that if not for Mill Creek, most of those would never see a Blu-ray release.

[joonskeezle]

Originally Posted by RillIris

I’ve gotten plenty of disk with those scratches over the years that weren’t stacked, I’d actually say concentric scratches in any case where there isn’t a floater are the more common scratch to see full stop. I remember the LOTR extended DVD’s I had to exchange 2 of the 3 due to this, and you could tell plainly from the packaging there was no way for those scratches to have come from the case whatsoever. I am saying stacking can contribute, but also saying you’d be surprised how common that kind of scratch is even in a normal hubbed case.

The reason as I found out is the disc when they arrive for packaging are in giant stacks on spindles, very similar to how you’d buy blank CD’s in bulk on a spindle but a bigger stack, and are pulled off one by one into the cases. Ultimately the actual bottom disc is usually well protected as it’s only the center resting against something in these heaps, but the disc directly on top of that one at the bottom will have 50 plus disc atop it initially. That’s allot of weight, and any bit of dust coupled with the disc spinning can result in some bad scratches. For shipping purposes those stacks should be transported on their sides as it removes that pressure, but if they are shipped standing up then you’re likely going to have bad concentric scratches on a number of especially those lower disc before they are even put into cases.

You're saying this like I haven't bought thousands of movies in my life as well. (In fact, your "lesson" on how discs are transported makes me think you believe I've never seen a disc before in my life.) And I've been obsessive over scratches since discs became a medium. To a degree that some would say classified as unhealthy. And the one thing I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt is that concentric scratches in cases that are not stackers are extraordinarily rare, and so common as to be practically expected in stacker cases. And again, you've completely ignored the examples of the P&R and Community sets, where the discs at the bottom had no concentric scratches, and the discs resting on top of other discs did.

In my experience, the most common scratches are perpendicular, often near the edge, likely caused by one machine or another during manufacturing or pressing. But these scratches rarely cause playback issues, which is why we generally tolerate them.

Originally Posted by RillIris

Oh and another issue that contributes is the labels some studios use, if they aren’t perfectly smooth then when stacked the label on top of one disc can act like sandpaper to another. I note this as some actual cases don’t actually elevate the disc off the plastic of the case even which is absurd but is what it is, but you don’t usually see scratches anyway because the plastic is a perfectly slick surface.

This is literally the ONLY thing that causes concentric scratches: the movements of the disc on top against the disc below. There is actually more relative movement, since both surfaces can move freely. And what's causing the scratches is typically not the surface of the disc below but any dust or dirt caught between the discs.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by Alex82

I cry a little every time I see that Mill Creek will release a TV show that I like.

The true culprits, however, are the big studios. They just sit on their shows and license them to indie labels. One can argue that if not for Mill Creek, most of those would never see a Blu-ray release.

This is likely very true. I wish more studios would put out some of these type of releases personally, but outside of Warner thanks to Warner Archive you don’t really see it much. Even if it’s a very corners have been cut type release like Paramount did for Twilight Zone Season 2 last year I’d be fine with it. The encodes for that release are solid, but in terms of packaging it straight up feels like a bootleg, doesn’t even use the Blu-ray logo on it.

[jkoffman]

Originally Posted by RillIris

This is likely very true. I wish more studios would put out some of these type of releases personally, but outside of Warner thanks to Warner Archive you don’t really see it much. Even if it’s a very corners have been cut type release like Paramount did for Twilight Zone Season 2 last year I’d be fine with it. The encodes for that release are solid, but in terms of packaging it straight up feels like a bootleg, doesn’t even use the Blu-ray logo on it.

They can't use the Blu-ray logo because it's a BD-R, making it an even less desirable full price release.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by joonskeezle

You're saying this like I haven't bought thousands of movies in my life as well. (In fact, your "lesson" on how discs are transported makes me think you believe I've never seen a disc before in my life.) And I've been obsessive over scratches since discs became a medium. To a degree that some would say classified as unhealthy. And the one thing I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt is that concentric scratches in cases that are not stackers are extraordinarily rare, and so common as to be practically expected in stacker cases. And again, you've completely ignored the examples of the P&R and Community sets, where the discs at the bottom had no concentric scratches, and the discs resting on top of other discs did.

In my experience, the most common scratches are perpendicular, often near the edge, likely caused by one machine or another during manufacturing or pressing. But these scratches rarely cause playback issues, which is why we generally tolerate them.



This is literally the ONLY thing that causes concentric scratches: the movements of the disc on top against the disc below. There is actually more relative movement, since both surfaces can move freely. And what's causing the scratches is typically not the surface of the disc below but any dust or dirt caught between the discs.

I’m assuming one of those might use one of the deeper spindle cases also? Never have gotten a release with one of those cases just know they exist, that’s why I haven’t commented directly on those releases though. I see the one is quite new also which probably just adds to the issue, as others have pointed out since the pandemic started scratches and fingerprints have been more common across the board. That specific type of spindle case also just reinforces exactly what I said about the added weight of extra disc making the lower, not the bottom, disc more likely to get scraped up due to the extra weight on top of them when spinning. Many concentric scratches do come from prior to packaging though at the manufacturer level and I’m simply explaining how and why that is the case, and often are so surface level many won’t see them unless under the exact right light even. The issue is once that scratch is their, something like stacking makes it much more likely that dust and such will catch and make the scratch even worse, but the scratch very often was their to begin with, and often from my experience just as likely to cause an issue. The worst concentric scratches I see are from the SteelBook cases where the two disc overlap on the right side, and though I often see the top disc scratched in those from the hub of second disc, it’s actually poorly cut ones where I’ve seen the bottom disc get absolutely wrecked by the case itself. Fortunately only see that on like 1/150 SteelBooks I get, but when you get a bad one it’s awful, kind of scratch you can catch your fingernail on.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by jkoffman

They can't use the Blu-ray logo because it's a BD-R, making it an even less desirable full price release.

At least the copy I received lack’s that darker hue of a BD-R, but maybe they did that as they knew further pressings would be made that way I’m assuming.

[joonskeezle]

Originally Posted by RillIris

I’m assuming one of those might use one of the deeper spindle cases also? Never have gotten a release with one of those cases just know they exist, that’s why I haven’t commented directly on those releases though. I see the one is quite new also which probably just adds to the issue, as others have pointed out since the pandemic started scratches and fingerprints have been more common across the board. That specific type of spindle case also just reinforces exactly what I said about the added weight of extra disc making the lower, not the bottom, disc more likely to get scraped up due to the extra weight on top of them when spinning. Many concentric scratches do come from prior to packaging though at the manufacturer level and I’m simply explaining how and why that is the case, and often are so surface level many won’t see them unless under the exact right light even. The issue is once that scratch is their, something like stacking makes it much more likely that dust and such will catch and make the scratch even worse, but the scratch very often was their to begin with, and often from my experience just as likely to cause an issue. The worst concentric scratches I see are from the SteelBook cases where the two disc overlap on the right side, and though I often see the top disc scratched in those from the hub of second disc, it’s actually poorly cut ones where I’ve seen the bottom disc get absolutely wrecked by the case itself. Fortunately only see that on like 1/150 SteelBooks I get, but when you get a bad one it’s awful, kind of scratch you can catch your fingernail on.

Deeper spindle cases? No. The P&R and Community sets are two or three discs stacked. And again, discs on bottom: no concentric scratches. Discs on top: concentric scratches. This is not a coincidence.

Stacker cases have existed since before the pandemic (the Community set came out 2018). And they always caused concentric scratches in the discs that rested on top of other discs. The mechanism didn't change. It's still discs sitting flush on top of other discs, both discs rotating freely against each other.

You seem personally invested in disproving that stacker cases are more prone to causing concentric scratches, which is weird.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by joonskeezle

Deeper spindle cases? No. The P&R and Community sets are two or three discs stacked. And again, discs on bottom: no concentric scratches. Discs on top: concentric scratches. This is not a coincidence.

Stacker cases have existed since before the pandemic (the Community set came out 2018). And they always caused concentric scratches in the discs that rested on top of other discs. The mechanism didn't change. It's still discs sitting flush on top of other discs, both discs rotating freely against each other.

You seem personally invested in disproving that stacker cases are more prone to causing concentric scratches, which is weird.

I’ve in fact done the exact opposite and pointed out multiple reasons why they both can, and likely create worse scratches than ones than seen in other cases, so I don’t know why you’re trying to say I’m saying otherwise. The only point I’m making that is what you seem to disagree with is that concentric scratches are fairly in non stacked cases also.

*edit* Had to add it’s not that I see severe concentric scratches in other cases often, just that I do often see concentric scratches on disc from all types of packaging far more often than non concentric, though I see fingerprints more often than both. A small 1/4” concentric scratch that might remain that size in a different case is much more likely to expand in a stacked case. Hope that makes more sense to you.

[joonskeezle]

Originally Posted by RillIris

The only point I’m making that is what you seem to disagree with is that concentric scratches are fairly (common) in non stacked cases also.

And I'm saying they aren't. I'm not saying I don't think they are, I'm saying they aren't. You've gone on and on and on about spindles and shipping and whatever to try and justify such scratches being common in non-stacker cases but the fact is they just are not. If I went disc-by-disc through my entire blu ray collection right now, I wager I could count on a single hand the number of non-stacker discs I own that have even a small concentric scratch. Parks and Rec would require multiple hands just on its own, nevermind the other stackers I have.

But you've also gone ahead and moved the goalposts in order to downplay the severity of concentric scratches in non-stackers so maybe if I keep pointing out you're wrong you'll just concede that they're extremely rare in non-stackers and extremely common in stackers, and that there is a very specific reason for this: stackers cause concentric scratches.

Whatever quirks of manufacturing or shipping or storage you want to wrestle into this discussion, the demonstrable fact is that stacker cases cause concentric scratches, and that discs are much MUCH more likely to get concentric scratches in stackers than non-stackers.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by joonskeezle

And I'm saying they aren't. I'm not saying I don't think they are, I'm saying they aren't. You've gone on and on and on about spindles and shipping and whatever to try and justify such scratches being common in non-stacker cases but the fact is they just are not. If I went disc-by-disc through my entire blu ray collection right now, I wager I could count on a single hand the number of non-stacker discs I own that have even a small concentric scratch. Parks and Rec would require multiple hands just on its own, nevermind the other stackers I have.

But you've also gone ahead and moved the goalposts in order to downplay the severity of concentric scratches in non-stackers so maybe if I keep pointing out you're wrong you'll just concede that they're extremely rare in non-stackers and extremely common in stackers, and that there is a very specific reason for this: stackers cause concentric scratches.

Whatever quirks of manufacturing or shipping or storage you want to wrestle into this discussion, the demonstrable fact is that stacker cases cause concentric scratches, and that discs are much MUCH more likely to get concentric scratches in stackers than non-stackers.

Disc are literally shipped after pressing stacked before they go in any case, thus yes stacking caused scratches, even in non stacked cases because they already were stacked before going into the cases to begin with. Those initial scratches can be made worse due to being placed in a stacked position again, but you’re just wrong on them not being common in non stacked cases. Less likely to cause a skip due to severity sure, but all disk are stacked at one point or another, it’s part of the manufacturing process.

[joonskeezle]

Originally Posted by RillIris

Disc are literally shipped after pressing stacked before they go in any case, thus yes stacking caused scratches, even in non stacked cases because they already were stacked before going into the cases to begin with. Those initial scratches can be made worse due to being placed in a stacked position again, but you’re just wrong on them not being common in non stacked cases. Less likely to cause a skip due to severity sure, but all disk are stacked at one point or another, it’s part of the manufacturing process.

Not wrong. ****in' huge sample size I'm speaking from. You are operating from theory. I am operating from evidence.

Concentric scratches are extremely uncommon in non-stackers. End of discussion.

Sorry you bought stock in stacker cases or something. Hard to understand why else you'd be so personally invested in an objectively wrong viewpoint.

[RillIris]

Originally Posted by joonskeezle

Not wrong. ****in' huge sample size I'm speaking from. You are operating from theory. I am operating from evidence.

Concentric scratches are extremely uncommon in non-stackers. End of discussion.

Sorry you bought stock in stacker cases or something. Hard to understand why else you'd be so personally invested in an objectively wrong viewpoint.

You can’t point to any fact to disprove anything I’ve said because you know I’m right, you just want the last word I feel like. I do know a good amount about the manufacturing process on disc since I have a couple friends in the gaming industry. My collection is currently at about 4000 titles, and though the worst examples have definitely been worse in both select SteelBook releases and stacker cases, I’ve found mild concentric scratches quite common on all disc due to the nature of how they are shipped from moment of pressing to packaging. I’ve backed up this whole thing with facts, and you just keep wanting to say I’m wrong. I’m literally saying no you’re partially right, just also adding further context and correction because they are common on all disc even if more mild in other cases.