Didn't see the "LCD 120hz effect" in Plasmas

[dobyblue]

G10 has 48Hz (2:2) mode.

[Omix]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

G10 has 48Hz (2:2) mode.

Where do you use to check this specifications?

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by Omix

Yeap.

I love to watch movies and my Samsung 32" is not enough to my Panny BD60, so I want to update.

Also, I tested my BD60 on the Panny P42S1 Plasma and nothing awesome (talking about motion). This is why I am specifying the "24p" option.

EDIT:
BTW, your TV is 480hz, right? This is why your TV has the 24p option?

If it was 600hz, does it still have the 24p?

Yes, mine is a 480 hz subfield. it does do 24p but it has a flicker to it and i dont like it. I believe the 600 hz have 24p also, but not positive...

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

Yes, mine is a 480 hz subfield. it does do 24p but it has a flicker to it and i dont like it. I believe the 600 hz have 24p also, but not positive...

They do, but the G10 doing 24p has a flicker as well. When you step up to the V10 or above, they have a 96hz capability (instead of 72hz I think) that removes any flicker. Of course, they're also approximately $500 more for the 50".

[Omix]

Originally Posted by aramis109

They do, but the G10 doing 24p has a flicker as well. When you step up to the V10 or above, they have a 96hz capability (instead of 72hz I think) that removes any flicker. Of course, they're also approximately $500 more for the 50".

Does yours have 24p?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Omix

Where do you use to check this specifications?

Owner's manual and personal experience - one of my closest friends has a G10.

Regarding the "flicker" - it's cinematic, not bothersome. It's only unwatchable if you're at an extreme angle or looking a foot or two to the side of the screen instead of at it. It's a little more exaggerated than the cinema, but not much and it's the same idea.

For some it's a little more bothersome, but that seems to be the minority. In any case true 24Hz is nowhere near as important as true contrast ratio, video processing performance, motion resolution...in my humble opinion.

[Omix]

Well, looks like if I want to get a Plasma with 24p feature (to avoid judder), I have to spend a little bit more $$$ and get big sizes.

Here in Mexico a Plasma 50+" FullHD costs more $$$ than a 37-40" LCD 120hz.

EDIT:
For example this one:
PLASMA 50" 50PQ60 LG
http://www.liverpool.com.mx/shopping...ailID=75494904

$1,462 usd ($18,999.00 pesos)

... and I don´t think is even 1080p.


And looking at my wallet, I think I would need to sacrifice size and get a 120hz LCD.

Mmmm..... interesting.

[Sonny]

The only plasma that has a "motion flow" type setting is the pioneer Kuro, it's called "smooth". It's not as pronounced as what you see on LCDs. It only comes in during panning shots and not all the time either. But of course the Kuros have a 72Hz refresh rate that that is used when anything with 24fps is displayed.

[Blu-Malibu2009]

Originally Posted by Omix

Well, looks like if I want to get a Plasma with 24p feature (to avoid judder), I have to spend a little bit more $$$ and get big sizes.

Here in Mexico a Plasma 50+" FullHD costs more $$$ than a 37-40" LCD 120hz.

EDIT:
For example this one:
PLASMA 50" 50PQ60 LG
http://www.liverpool.com.mx/shopping...ailID=75494904

$1,462 usd ($18,999.00 pesos)

... and I don´t think is even 1080p.


And looking at my wallet, I think I would need to sacrifice size and get a 120hz LCD.

Mmmm..... interesting.

You are correct that the 50 inch LG is not 1080p. It's 720p.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Omix

Well, looks like if I want to get a Plasma with 24p feature (to avoid judder), I have to spend a little bit more $$$ and get big sizes.

Again, there are far more important things to consider ahead of 24p.
Have you been bothered by judder on DVD for the last 10 years?

[Omix]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Again, there are far more important things to consider ahead of 24p.
Have you been bothered by judder on DVD for the last 10 years?

No, I didn´t even know that was an issue, so it was normal to me. But now that I see that somes TVs fix this, my perspective has changed.

You have just made the same question my wife did yesterday hahahaha

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Yes, seriously. I'm talking about the interpolation feature (you know the feature which creates artificial frames to create smoother images) which I haven't noticed in any Plasma's yet.

No doubt both technologies have their advantages and weaknesses but like I said I'm merely asking if any of the plasma's offer the interpolation features. I'm not asking if you like them or not.

Motion Interpolation was created for LCD displays so they could increase the motion resolution of their panels. LCDs would often display motion blur resulting from fast moving images, so a 1080p panel would only resolve around 500-600 pixels of information when displaying fast moving material.

Plasmas do not suffer from this problem, and as such did not require interpolation to mitigate it's effects. Many plasmas displayed upwards of 900 pixels of 1080p display more than two years ago, and they have only gotten better. LCDs with interpolation enabled can match plasmas motion resolution on fast moving objects, with some manufacturers being better than others.

You will not find interpolation similar to LCDs on plasmas because they do not require it.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Owner's manual and personal experience - one of my closest friends has a G10.

Regarding the "flicker" - it's cinematic, not bothersome. It's only unwatchable if you're at an extreme angle or looking a foot or two to the side of the screen instead of at it. It's a little more exaggerated than the cinema, but not much and it's the same idea.

For some it's a little more bothersome, but that seems to be the minority. In any case true 24Hz is nowhere near as important as true contrast ratio, video processing performance, motion resolution...in my humble opinion.

I dunno, it kind of bothers me, and my wife noticed it right off, so I leave it off. Still, the set does everything else right as you noted.

And yes, my G10 does have 24p (obviously by the above).

[Omix]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I dunno, it kind of bothers me, and my wife noticed it right off, so I leave it off. Still, the set does everything else right as you noted.

And yes, my G10 does have 24p (obviously by the above).

Looks like our wives are capable of making objective comments in somehting that we all are kind of blind because our HD furor.

again:

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I dunno, it kind of bothers me, and my wife noticed it right off, so I leave it off. Still, the set does everything else right as you noted.

And yes, my G10 does have 24p (obviously by the above).

I agree. It bothers me enough to notice it and it distracts me, so off it stays...

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Sonny

The only plasma that has a "motion flow" type setting is the pioneer Kuro, it's called "smooth". It's not as pronounced as what you see on LCDs. It only comes in during panning shots and not all the time either. But of course the Kuros have a 72Hz refresh rate that that is used when anything with 24fps is displayed.

Thank you Sonny. That is what I was referring to. Some algorithm that helps with juddering.

I'm also surprised from a marketing standpoint that more Plasma manufactures don't use interpolation. For those that don't like, just like 120hz and 240hz sets, you could simply leave it off. For me it really depends on the content if I use it (low, medium, high or off).

Originally Posted by kpkelley

Motion Interpolation was created for LCD displays so they could increase the motion resolution of their panels. LCDs would often display motion blur resulting from fast moving images, so a 1080p panel would only resolve around 500-600 pixels of information when displaying fast moving material.

Plasmas do not suffer from this problem, and as such did not require interpolation to mitigate it's effects. Many plasmas displayed upwards of 900 pixels of 1080p display more than two years ago, and they have only gotten better. LCDs with interpolation enabled can match plasmas motion resolution on fast moving objects, with some manufacturers being better than others.

You will not find interpolation similar to LCDs on plasmas because they do not require it.

Where do manufacturers state is was created for increasing motion resolution?

On my old set (60" rear projection, not an LCD) it helped immensely with judder and smoothed out panning shots (judder is an inherit issue of shooting at such a low framerate of 24fps). I'm not claiming interpolation is perfect as it creates artifacts as well but it does make a difference on judder.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Monkey

On my old set (60" rear projection, not an LCD) it helped immensely with judder and smoothed out panning shots (judder is an inherit issue of shooting at such a low framerate of 24fps). I'm not claiming interpolation is perfect as it creates artifacts as well but it does make a difference on judder.

Judder is inherent to film, as such it is not a deficiency to any television display method. LCD manufacturers created interpolation in an attempt to address a deficiency native to their display technology. If you like how interpolation reduces the judder inherent in 24p playback, that's fine, but it was not developed for that reason. Many lcd owners turn off this feature when watching 24p material because they do not like this effect, and prefer to watch the movie as it was filmed.

[Omix]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

Judder is inherent to film, as such it is not a deficiency to any television display method. LCD manufacturers created interpolation in an attempt to address a deficiency native to their display technology. If you like how interpolation reduces the judder inherent in 24p playback, that's fine, but it was not developed for that reason. Many lcd owners turn off this feature when watching 24p material because they do not like this effect, and prefer to watch the movie as it was filmed.

So movies are filmed little 'juddered'?

In other words, the most natural motion is like in a theater?

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Omix

So movies are filmed little 'juddered'?

In other words, the most natural motion is like in a theater?

24fps is the rate at which films are recorded and displayed. The eye can resolve information at a slightly faster rate( i think around 30fps, but don't quote me). As such, when watching film material there will inherently be a slight judder, usually noticeable when there are camera pans, because the frames resolve more slowly than we can view them.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

Judder is inherent to film, as such it is not a deficiency to any television display method.

Yes, I've already said that. Judder is inherent to film due to shooting at such low framerates.

LCD manufacturers created interpolation in an attempt to address a deficiency native to their display technology.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim??

LCD's are not the only display type to offer interpolation. In fact as Sonny mentioned at least one Kuro model offers this feature. DLP's and other types of displays also offer models 120hz with interpolation.

If you like how interpolation reduces the judder inherent in 24p playback, that's fine, but it was not developed for that reason. Many lcd owners turn off this feature when watching 24p material because they do not like this effect, and prefer to watch the movie as it was filmed.

Same as above I'd like to read something from the manufactures that agrees with you claim. Your proof is? What about non LCD's, such as DLP's, Plasma's, etc that use interpolation technology?

FYI, interpolation isn't just used in 24fps sources.

That's great that some don't like it and others do. Some like Strawberry some like chocolates. We can agree on that.