My frustration

[Go Blu]

Apparently he too may be brain washed by the HD-DUD propaganda machine.
He deserves all that HD-DUD has to offer....."Just Good Enough".

[ground chuck]

Originally Posted by DealsR4theDevil

Now here is the source of my frustration. After telling him ALL this. He did not disagree with me on any point I made. He just dismissed it by saying at this early point NONE of that matters. He said that HD DVD has a 90% chance of winning because the average consumer will recognize "HD" and "DVD" and buy it. He didnt even offer any of the arguments HD DVD fans usually use like "the players are cheaper" or "30 GB is enough." He just said that people will buy HD DVD because the average consumers will recognize the phrase and he said the only reason Blu-ray is winning now is because the "early adopters" are the kinds of people who care and will look more into the formats. According to him the average consumer will turn the tide with their stupidity and laziness. The sad part is not that he actually believes this. The sad part is that now I have to work with the moron.

expect nothing less than redunant retarded statements from hd-dud fanboys.

[Rustmonsteru]

Originally Posted by DealsR4theDevil

He said that HD DVD has a 90% chance of winning because the average consumer will recognize "HD" and "DVD" and buy it.

That was the aim in naming it as such: continuity & name recognition. It does help, but only to a certain extent and can actually cause confusion in the less informed, i.e. I heard a woman at Best Buy making a return on an hd-dvd because "if it says dvd shouldn't it work on a dvd player?!"

[David Craig]

I am into the Blu-ray camp. So I think it will win because there is much more support.

But I think there is some truth to the argument that if lots of people buy into HD DVD not really understanding what is going on, that can swing the market.

Many seem to be buying HD DVD disks to play on their DVD players. Some return the disks but probably some others then go onto buy HD DVD players.

Many people buy players these days that up-convert to 1080i. They pay $150 or so for that. It doesn't take much for a sales person to say, why not pay $300 and get an HD DVD player instead.

I think the danger of this happening though will diminish once people start seeing more Blu-ray support in stores. If someone is about to buy an HD DVD player + movie and they go to the movie section and see Blu-ray racks holding a 4:1 advantage over HD DVD racks, then they will stop and think. If it is 1:1 they may just proceed with their purchase.

Best thing is to keep educating those around you.

[tron3]

His opinion doesn't change the fact that blu-ray is slaughtering HD-DVD. His estimation of HD-DVD winning because consumers are idiots is his low opinion of others, and apparently himself because he supports it! His lies do not change anything.

Print out a few copies of the sales weeks we are having compared to HD-DVD. Maybe the numbers will shut him up. Just drop them on his desk when he isn't there.

He is a brainwashed FUDer if I ever heard of one.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by Beta-guy

I tried having a conversation with some work mates of mine (computer techs) and they believed HD-DVD would win (I disagreed) one of the tech fired the "it's cheaper" argument and the other said he would get an HD-DVD player because it was HD, it tried to explain Bluwas as well but he believed since HDtv's exist they'd play better with HD-DVD, and that really bothers me, how could a computer tech believe such nonsense?

One thing I learned in life from experience and history, people can and WILL believe any shred of nonsense and take it as the gospel truth because they choose to remain ignorant and do so.

This is why when the Jews finally were led by God out of Egypt and were no longer slaves, they made a Golden Calf their god when Moses left for his little mountain trip and took too long to return.

The Germans thought they could wipe out the Jews, and they would be the dominate world power. We know how that ended.

The Japanese thought they could be THE world power and bombed Pearl Harbor. Needless to say we kicked their ever loving arses, but not without serious death on both sides. Took TWO H-bombs dropped on their cities for them to say, "Ok - we give up." A rational person would consider the power of the weapon after the first one and say - "Whoa, no more. They can wipe us out." Had they not surrendered, I'm sure we would have kept dropping those suckers. War was not fought with the "political humanity" bs we see today which hinder our troops.

The Muslim extremists beleive all non-believers in their faith can and SHOULD die. So far, it's mostly them who are being exterminated.

My point is that ignorance does not change the facts. In the end, they will have their butts handed to them on a useless HD DVD player. PERIOD.

[CptGreedle]

The way I see it is with a name HD-DVD, ppl might go out and buy it thinking its DVD compatible. But once they try it out at home and find it doesn't work, they will return it and go back to DVD.
But everyone can easily realize the Blu-ray will into run on DVD players as the name is different and not suggesting that it is the same technology. So they are less likely to buy it thinking it will run on DVD players and be good.
Both formats are identicle in that they need a whole new set up to work properly. HD-DVD's name pretneds it doesn't. Blu-ray's name is not trying to fool the consumers.
Also, you can say it is the next generation DVD which is 10 years old now, and it outdated. Blu-ray is a brand new technology that exceeds DVD technology.

[Terjyn]

Even if the idiots will recognize the name "HD-DVD", HD-DVD still has to be around at the point of mass adoption...will it?

The idiots will not determine if the format will still exist.

[tron3]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

The way I see it is with a name HD-DVD, ppl might go out and buy it thinking its DVD compatible. But once they try it out at home and find it doesn't work, they will return it and go back to DVD.....

This point has been made several times. I recall a person or two who has said, "High Definition DVD? I thought it was already high definition."

People believe what they choose to believe. - PERIOD. Some are swayed by truth and rational reasoning, others are stubborn and want their way, while the vast majority are victims of "perception is reality".

It is my earnest opinion that perception is NOT reality, because we can't possibly perceive all the information we need to make a rational snap decision in a short period of time. Like most of you, I do hold some very strong beliefs. I can and have modified them when faced with the truth which showed I was wrong. Then again, I can't change my mind with every new opion I hear because who is to say they are right, and not just FUDing me?

Truth is obtainable, only when you look for it - not when you make it up.

[daronk]

Originally Posted by bkbluray

Digital Video Disc

Nope, Digital Versatile Disk AFAIK

[tron3]

Originally Posted by daronk

Nope, Yeah, I know I pick on evolution alot. AFAIK

It started out as Digital Video Disk. Once the inevitable cross over to an audio and digital storage medium happened, they modded the name to Digital Versatile Disk because it can do Video, audio and Data.

If you want to split hairs, movie DVD's are "video" discs, and burnable discs are "versatile". But I believe the name is just "Digital Versatile Disc" and has been for some time.

[SNAP]

And he'll probably hook it up to his 27" RCA TV w/the fake wood panels on the side.
Unfortunately, not every person believes the facts even if it is shoved in front of their face.

Originally Posted by Go Blu

Apparently he too may be brain washed by the HD-DUD propaganda machine.
He deserves all that HD-DUD has to offer....."Just Good Enough".

[werewuf]

Originally Posted by DealsR4theDevil

Long story short he believes that HD DVD will win because "the average American consumer is an idiot and when they hear the word Blu-ray, they think, what is that? But when the average american consumer hears HD DVD, they think hmm, DVD I know what that is and HD stands for High Definiton so these are High Definition DVDs cool."

I have heard this same exact argument before from a guy at our local mom & pop video store. However he at least made the flip side argument that I liked: "Blu-Ray may win because it's sexier" EXACTLY!!! Not to mention all the other tech and support info we all know. Sexy it is.....

[Joe Cain]

Habs, I don't get it. You seem to think other CE manufacturers will "get PO'd" at Sony for cutting PS3 prices and undercutting the standalone market, yet you would never dream of using a game system as a media player---aren't you a perfect example of why cutting PS3 prices will have little effect on standalone sales?

We already know that only a percentage of PS3 owners use it for BD viewing, or are even aware that the machine is BD-capable; since folks who insist on a standalone won't buy a PS3 anyway, I doubt Panasonic's or Pioneer's sales are suffering much as a result of PS3 price cuts.

There's a reason J6P does not decide format wars---the war generally has to be over for prices to reach his comfort zone. HD-DVD had a product with finished specs, a head start in the market, and lower prices to boot...remind me again why it's losing?

[Branden]

Originally Posted by DealsR4theDevil

"the average Amerian consumer is an idiot and when they hear the word Blu-ray, they think, what is that? But when the average american consumer hears HD DVD, they think hmm, DVD I know what that is and HD stands for High Definiton so these are High Definition DVDs cool."

hate to say it but he's right. a big reason hd-dvd isn't doing as poorly in the US as the rest of the world is exactly because "the average American consumer is an idiot" who is misinformed into thinking hd-dvd and dvd upconversion are the same thing.

[Elandyll]

Originally Posted by HABS#1

You both make some very valid points the PS3 has certainly helped but I do not think it has helped yet in the numbers the BDA would have liked it to the other CE's I am guessing will only put up with the price cutting of the players for so long before getting PO'd at Sony as every time Sony slashes the price of the PS3 it kills the standalone market for the other CE's producing a set top player for BR. How long will Panasonic and Pioneer stand for Sony taking them out at the knees every time they drop the price on the PS3 thus killing the standalone market for the rest even more. None of the others produce a game system that contains BR I personally would not own a console as my disk player I prefer stand alones for my playback a game system is just that a game system and in my house that is all they get used for. As for his comments about the average Joe he is sort of correct but the biggest thing is the price Joe 6pack looks at price before features for the most part I mean if they didn't would Wally World sell so many damn 30-50 dollar DVD players. That is the true feature many look at in this fiasco that is a format way the price I know literally 300 people from work that are sitting on the fence waiting for THEIR magic number in the price point before they buy into either one they did the same for HDTV once the TV hit below the 1000 dollar mark they jumped in they are now waiting for the magic 150 or below mark for a player. They have no desire for one or the other they just want the cheapest price.

We can all argue till we turn purple but people waiting on this thing to shape up are pretty much all waiting for price points they are comfortable with and nothing more from my experience anyhow. Look at what happened with DVD once it hit the price point people were comfortable with it really took off. That and the media is still quite expensive for most consumers when you can buy the same title in their eyes for 10-12 dollars less.

You forget that price battle always happen, and that is their fault if those hardware makers are unwilling to make a cheap entry level player.
Beyond the BDA members competition, they need to realize that if the format loses (don't see how this would happen at this point, but who knows) they will ALL have lost enormous amounts of investments and patents.

So in fact, I doubt they are mad at Sony for making a cheap PS3, because actually right now Sony is the only one willing to eat a bullet (losing large amounts of money on PS3s, most probably) to promote the format. On top of that, the PS3, to the larger public, is still viewed as a console, thus games, thus kids (I am talking mass market here).

What Blu needs right now is a Samsung or LG to release a cheap 1080i only with basic digital audio out standalone player, to create an entry level cheap ($299 or so) player, to start the mass market adoption level for HD.

This being said, about the name argument, this was a point made by the HD DVD camp a loooong time aggo, that they have since discounted.
HD in itself appears so complex to most people (1080i/p, 720p, HDMI, etc.) that HD DVD or Blu Ray are both getting name recognition through ads.
Even with the "soprano"commercial about HD DVD, Blu still has a lead and most of my colleagues (not video savy) when asked about HD can mention both HD DVD and Blu Ray.

In any case, if the name is any problem still, it won't be for much longer, with people getting more educated and articles being written about HD more and more often.

[MacHaggis]

My view is that the difference in names is in HD DVDs advantage. That is because of the consumer not being informed.

We can't go around and dismiss those who are not aware of the fact that Blu-ray is a better high definition DVD format, this will be deadly...

The BDA has to saturate everyone with information on what Blu-ray is and that it IS a better option, with wider support in most areas.

This can't be a random BD commercial on certain selected programming.

That's my take.
Bogdan

PS. Get those DVD player rebates towards the purchase of a Blu-ray player going!!!! At least, it will get the people's attention at what we're talking about.

[jdsanko]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Habs, I don't get it. You seem to think other CE manufacturers will "get PO'd" at Sony for cutting PS3 prices and undercutting the standalone market, yet you would never dream of using a game system as a media player---aren't you a perfect example of why cutting PS3 prices will have little effect on standalone sales?

From my standpoint I want a standalone because it will also serve as a CD player, fit better in to my equipment area, not require me to have the TV on to see disk track info etc.

At this point for me the issue is NOT price. I want a player that supports all of the audio codecs (DTS-MA in particular since Fox is using it) even if I need a new receiver.

Quite possibly, since the other CE manufacters do not make a game system, the price cut startegy is discussed. The bottom line is that anything that expands the Blu-ray user base will utimately benefit the standalone CE folks. They have to be looking at this over the long run, not the next few months.

[Joe Cain]

Well Habs, it's nice everyone can have opinions.

Nice dig at the PS3 for the hypothetical console burnout caused by too much gaming AND movie-viewing, when the actual failure rate is about 2% (compared to the nearly 1/3 failure of that other next-gen unit that won't play HDM).

I'll say it again: if this war was going to be won by pricing, HD-DVD would not be straggling behind. A recent videobuisness.com article said that more than half the folks surveyed cited the format war---NOT price---as the reason they had not yet invested in an HDM player.

Toshiba is hemorrhaging money with their lower-priced players, and that's one reason they're the only CE manufacturer making them in any quantity---because no one can make a profit on them. And if other (read: non-Sony) CE mfrs were so concerned about losing out to the PS3, why are there so many more of them making BD players than HD-DVD players?

You're certainly entitled to think or write anything you care to. I prefer to base my opinions on the concrete, not what I imagine in my head.

[Branden]

Originally Posted by Elandyll

What Blu needs right now is a Samsung or LG to release a cheap 1080i only with basic digital audio out standalone player, to create an entry level cheap ($299 or so) player...

someone correct me if i'm wrong, but as far as i know the BDA made 1080p and HDMI a requirement for all BD players.
remember that $199 venturer hd-dvd thinks will save it? even wal-mart won't sell it! same thing would happen if a 1080i BD player ever does pop-up. it'll likely be some 3rd party knock-off not found at half-respectable retailers.