Enderle isn't saying that Disney is upset at Blu-ray, he's saying that Disney is upset. He's saying that Disney's attack on HD-DVD was a bit overboard, and is wondering why Disney is lashing out so vehemently. He's then speculating the reason is that Blu-ray isn't doing well, so Disney is feeling desperate.
In other words, if Blu-ray was doing well, Disney should be sitting back and relaxing, enjoying a nice warm hot cocoa instead of yelling at HD-DVD.
*sigh*
But given his stupid comment on 1080i players looking better on 1080p sets, I can see why everybody would assume he was completely off-base on the Disney thing.
Ya gotta love how he trashes his own companies player in the same article. Why should Toshiba even try to make a penny on these things when the cheap crap is better than a more expensive player. Complete BS.
If HD-DVD somehow pulls this thing out, the HT community at large is a bunch of boobs for promoting this S#!t!
The format actually looks better than the more expensive 1080p player on a 1080p set because of the superior de-interlacing technology in most 1080p sets.
Are you freakin' kidding me?
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By: dobyblue
Title: Re: Leopard Launch Wrap, HD DVD vs. Blu-ray, Next-Gen PC Security, Product of the Week
Icon:
Your Comments:
“The format actually looks better than the more expensive 1080p player on a 1080p set because of the superior de-interlacing technology in most 1080p sets.”
Rob,
What on Earth are you talking about here? You’re making an impossible assertion.
Any time you like, put an HD-A2 on a Panasonic Viera Plasma beside a Pioneer Elite Blu-ray player and you tell me which one looks better.
Also, you’re completely incorrect that “most 1080p sets” have superior de-interlacing technology. There’s a reason why videophiles like Gary Merson spend so much time performing tests on 1080p sets for 3:2 cadence and de-interlacing and you seem to just smack him right in the mouth with this false information. Not only do over 50% of 1080p sets fail de-interlacing tests, but over 80% of them fail 3:2 cadence detection.
I’m sorry but a 1080p source on a 1080p television does NOT look better than the 1080i source, which is subject to far more points of failure when it comes to getting all 2,073,600 pixels getting to where they’re supposed to be at the right time.
It’s offensive to people who seek the truth on technologies to have to see such misinformation being posted by someone who is supposed to be regarded as a good source of information on technical matters. Have you ever thought about actually testing equipment with an HQV benchmark test disc?
Isn't it amazing how these so called experts are so misguided much of the time.
They aren't misguided..quite the opposite. They are co-ordinated in the misinformation campaign if anything.
So this is the 3rd or 4th time a HD DVD shill has made the point that WB is soley going to decide based on the number of units Toshiba sells in 2 months and ignore all other sales ..like actual movie sales.
"This makes the new steady price for the low end (after last weekend) of the Toshiba line under $200, and this puts the still expected Chinese products at an even lower price point ...
Sounds like he isn't all that swift to me. Just because Toshiba is willing to lose money on players doesn't mean that the Chinese companies are. Now, what he said might be true if the Chinese companies are actually getting their stuff from Toshiba (basically another rebadge) and Toshiba subsidizes them, but I said long ago that Toshiba could go lower than the Chinese companies building for themselves because while the Chinese companies are low profit per item, they aren't no profit per item and Toshiba is in a war where they can sell at a loss for a while (and don't seem to be worried about protecting other player sellers).
One interesting thing in all this to me is that it looks like the Chinese coming in with their own players is more likely to help Blu-ray than HD DVD, since it will probably close the gap quite a bit. Toshiba already seems to be selling at or lower than the Chinese would with their own player (other than mostly a rebadge with a good deal on parts), while a Chinese company coming in with their own no-name or low-name Blu-ray player would probably price it quite a bit lower than current higher end brand Blu-ray players.
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It will be basing its decision on how many of these inexpensive players are sold.
Is this ignorance, dishonesty, or what?
Here are some of my previous comments about Rob Enderle:
and the way he has used information from rdjam to claim riduculous and misleading stuff, which turned out to be way wrong (not a surprise with anything coming from rdjam).
Rob Enderle is the guy who last December claimed that Blu-ray could likely only close the gap with HD DVD's lead (since he said, "... you have a situation where the active movie player advantage by year-end should be between 4x and 6x better for HD DVD over Blu-Ray") and we all saw what happened with software sales less than a month later (the start of the year).
Did he just say that 1080i looks better on 1080p TVs because of superior deinterlacing? Wouldn't 1080p look better on a 1080p TV because no conversion is needed at all?
That was the funniest line in the article. We should all strive for 1080i because of its superiority over 1080p.
Enderle isn't saying that Disney is upset at Blu-ray, he's saying that Disney is upset. He's saying that Disney's attack on HD-DVD was a bit overboard, and is wondering why Disney is lashing out so vehemently. He's then speculating the reason is that Blu-ray isn't doing well, so Disney is feeling desperate.
In other words, if Blu-ray was doing well, Disney should be sitting back and relaxing, enjoying a nice warm hot cocoa instead of yelling at HD-DVD.
*sigh*
But given his stupid comment on 1080i players looking better on 1080p sets, I can see why everybody would assume he was completely off-base on the Disney thing.
ok mister HD-DVD ever think that they know what happens if this war keep going on
Do YOU have any idea at alll. No you just keep your pro HD-DVD party line
They know if the war keeps on it will be the end of disk based movie sales
M$ will force us to only have 720p crapless audio down loads
THATS why there mad and any fan of movies will be or is mad.
Did he just say that 1080i looks better on 1080p TVs because of superior deinterlacing? Wouldn't 1080p look better on a 1080p TV because no conversion is needed at all?
True & most tv's do not deinterlace well, even the good brand ones.
They aren't misguided..quite the opposite. They are co-ordinated in the misinformation campaign if anything.
So this is the 3rd or 4th time a HD DVD shill has made the point that WB is soley going to decide based on the number of units Toshiba sells in 2 months and ignore all other sales ..like actual movie sales.
Bingo. Obviously, Enderle is on the list to get the faxes containing all the talking points. I emailed him, last week, with Bill Hunt's reaction to Toshiba's fire sale and I got the predictable response. He also said I would be pissed at his next article.
But given his stupid comment on 1080i players looking better on 1080p sets, I can see why everybody would assume he was completely off-base on the Disney thing.
I read that as him saying the 1080p duds' de-interlace is worse than most 1080p sets built-in de-interlacing(remember all broadcast HD is either 720p or 1080i and 1080p sets de-interlace the 1080i to 1080p). He is saying, if you have a 1080p set skip the dud high end units that do 1080p as your 1080p TV likely does the de-interlace better with the 1080i output from the cheap 1080i dud units.
I read that as him saying the 1080p duds' de-interlace is worse than most 1080p sets built-in de-interlacing(remember all broadcast HD is either 720p or 1080i and 1080p sets de-interlace the 1080i to 1080p). He is saying, if you have a 1080p set skip the dud high end units that do 1080p as your 1080p TV likely does the de-interlace better with the 1080i output from the cheap 1080i dud units.
He's probably thinking about how the A20 did 1080p incorrectly (converted to 1080i then back to 1080p even with 1080p original). Or maybe he is thinking about 1080i source material, which is a small percentage of the content on either format. I don't get the feeling he really has much grasp of the subject matter.
One thing the article mentioned was that he was writing it Thursday night and by the time we read it, they would be sold out of the Toshiba players. I was at Wal-Mart in Ludington, MI (which isn't a huge town, but still) there were NINE, yes nine hd dud players sitting out in the center aisle... nobody seemed to even look at them... this was SUNDAY afternoon!!!
Mr. Morrison’s article is from over a year old, before we had televisions like the new 120Hz LCD’s and 72Hz Pioneer plasma sets, as he seems to admit in his final paragraph (most likely an edit) before the “Short Version.”
He also, nowhere in that article, compares the A2 with any other player that outputs 1080p, nor does he suggest that most 1080p sets have superior de-interlacing technology. What he’s saying is that if your 1080p set does de-interlace properly (about 48% of them) and does 3:2 cadence correctly (about 25% of them) then it does not matter if you’ve got a 1080i player or a 1080p player, but only in terms of the resolution you’re able to see – it’s got nothing to do with picture quality.
Those are the 2006 1080p tests, hopefully Gary Merson will have the 2007 ones up soon.
The only way to remove all instances of jitter, deinterlacing problems and otherwise is to have a player capable of 1080p/24 output with a video device that not only accepts 1080p/24, but has a display rate divisible by 24, like the 72Hz Pioneer plasmas (no doubt Panasonic and others will announce similar sets at CES) and the 120Hz LCD panels, which seem to be abundant amongst the usual suspects like Sharp, Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, etc.
Again you’re ignoring the fact that your article states most 1080p sets have superior deinterlacing, which they very obviously do not.
We’re also reading this new review you’re sending differently as I note the following:
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The simple answer is yes, 1080p output can make a difference, but it depends on what TV you have. For example, we used Silicon Optix's HQV HD DVD test suite, and looked at the two players at their maximum resolutions on the Samsung LN-T4665F--an excellent HDTV overall, but we knew it had some issues with 1080i de-interlacing. Not surprisingly, we saw significant differences in the way the two players handled those test patterns on this TV. For example, on the Video Resolution Loss Test with the HD-A2, one of the boxes had a strobe-like effect, while the same box was stable with the HD-XA2. The same thing happened on the Film Resolution test. We also saw a significant difference on the Diagonal Filter "Jaggies" test, with three pivoting lines having nearly no artifacts on the HD-XA2 but two of the lines having noticeable artifacts on the HD-A2.
I guess if you don’t mind jaggies and strobing, more power to you, but I think a lot of people do and would be quite surprised to learn its because of their television and player and not because of the source.
One things for sure, there is nothing so far to back-up your statement that 1080i looks better than 1080p, nor is there anything to support most 1080p sets having “superior deinterlacing” – I have sent you the test results, you have obviously not looked at them, but I’m sure you know who Gary Merson is.
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Originally Posted by Enderle
Actually I read what the writer wrote. My job isn’t to get folks to buy the most expensive thing out there but to spend their money wisely. As I said the initial pieces I got on the low end Toshiba 1080p sets concluded the 1080i was better on the TVs they tested on. In any case, per my last link, the general consensus still appears to be:
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Despite these differences with test patterns, however, we found it difficult to find any noticeable difference with program material.
The reality is, and I’ve been doing user testing now for more than a year, most can’t even tell the difference cold between a regular DVD with good up-scaling and either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD At normal viewing distances. I test on a 52” 1080p sharp right now and I imagine it might be different for something larger but while I too can run test suites, and do, the reality in use is doesn’t seem to matter that much.
As to TVs, I haven’t run into a recent set that can’t de-interlace well but then I run and recommend LCD sets which tend to do well here.
Anyway thanks for writing.
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Originally Posted by doby
Sorry Rob, but your reality and my reality are obviously world’s apart. I have a Panasonic Viera 1080p plasma and the difference between upscaled DVD and Blu-ray 1080p source material is worlds apart using a Pioneer Elite 94H standalone Blu-ray player. Everyone else who has seen a demonstration of reference Blu-ray material like Spider-man 3, Hellboy and Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer has the same opinion, DVD doesn’t hold a candle to it. My 1080p upconverting player is the Oppo 980H.
Your job, if you feel your opinion is the correct one, would be for people to not buy into either format if you feel there is no difference between DVD and Blu-ray/HD DVD, yet you recommend Toshiba’s products every chance you get; at every new corner there is another reason why HD DVD could take the lead, but this never seems to materialize, even with the year’s first $300+ million blockbuster exclusively on the format. I’ve been reading your articles for well over a year and have yet to find one where you recommend the consumer should stick to DVD because there’s no discernable difference.
The XA2 is a better player than the A2 and you’ve not shown me anything that lends credence to your suggestion that the 1080i format is “actually looks better” which is a far cry from “no discernable difference” – the XA2 is also a better upscaling DVD player than the A2, if not one of the best on the market today.
As it goes there are plenty of LCD’s that will fail deinterlacing tests and even for 2007 ones the findings are not that good:
In 2006 over 50% of 1080p sets tested by Gary Merson failed deinterlacing tests.
In 2007 that figure was down to only 34% failure rate, still pretty abysmal, with plasma sets coming out on top overall.
The A2/A3 etc are actually pretty bad at upscaling and deinterlacing. You really have to get the XA2 to get decent results, and even then the Oppo is a notch above that.
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