HD DVD Advantages?

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by sparksj

According Nielsen HD DVD has gained 2% market share in 2007 and 1% since inception. Remember I didn't say thet caught up... Just that they are gaining. A lot of this was due to recent sales, but they improved non-the-less.

1% and 2% of one part of the market that DVD is in...good for HD DVD ... as for gaining on Blu-Ray...
no not now.. not in the future.... not ever....the reason why is because HD DVD will never sell more disc's than Blu-Ray that is a fact..the Movie industry is not the only market Blu-Ray sell their Blu-Ray disc's in...there is a reason why HD DVD is not ever going to sell more disc's and that is because its only in 2 markets of DVD that is MOVIE and blank DATA..but in even one of those Blu-Ray is still the cheaper cost per GB ..and that is Data back up. but not only that but already Blu-Ray is in PC software/HAND camcorder market...HD DVD is not in none of those markets. HD DVD is a Movie format but not in the HAND CAMCORDER market yet...?

[sparksj]

To answer a previous questions....

http://www.projectorcentral.com/reta...VD_Blu-ray.htm

"Is Blu-ray faster, and is it relevant?

On our retail tour, several of the sales reps we met said that Blu-ray has a higher bit rate, and the ability to read and transfer data more rapidly makes it a better solution for high quality video. They are correct that maximum bit rates on Blu-ray are higher than HD-DVD. The maximum bit rate on HD-DVD is 36.55 million bits per second, whereas it is 54 Mbps on Blu-ray. To people reading the spec sheets that sounds like a big technical advantage for Blu-ray. And in theory, the more data you can move and process in a given period of time, the better the picture and sound will be.

However, this is true only to a point. Given the fixed limitations of other elements in the video system like film size, 1080p scans, and 24 frame per second film exposure rates, one cannot simply continue to increase bit rates and gain ever-increasing picture quality. Eventually you get to the point where the limits of the source and the displays are reached, and further increases in bit rates become irrelevant. And as far as 1080p/24 video material with the advanced codecs is concerned, if that point has already been reached with a maximum 36.55 Mbps bit rate, then incremental bit rates beyond that will not contribute to perceptible increases in image quality. "

[sj001]

Can we change this thread name to either Blu-ray advantages, or HD-DVD disadvantages? Makes more sense since HD-DVD really has no signficant advantages.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by sparksj

To answer a previous questions....

http://www.projectorcentral.com/reta...VD_Blu-ray.htm

"Is Blu-ray faster, and is it relevant?

On our retail tour, several of the sales reps we met said that Blu-ray has a higher bit rate, and the ability to read and transfer data more rapidly makes it a better solution for high quality video. They are correct that maximum bit rates on Blu-ray are higher than HD-DVD. The maximum bit rate on HD-DVD is 36.55 million bits per second, whereas it is 54 Mbps on Blu-ray. To people reading the spec sheets that sounds like a big technical advantage for Blu-ray. And in theory, the more data you can move and process in a given period of time, the better the picture and sound will be.

However, this is true only to a point. Given the fixed limitations of other elements in the video system like film size, 1080p scans, and 24 frame per second film exposure rates, one cannot simply continue to increase bit rates and gain ever-increasing picture quality. Eventually you get to the point where the limits of the source and the displays are reached, and further increases in bit rates become irrelevant. And as far as 1080p/24 video material with the advanced codecs is concerned, if that point has already been reached with a maximum 36.55 Mbps bit rate, then incremental bit rates beyond that will not contribute to perceptible increases in image quality. "

Yeah, this guy isn't biased at all....

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by sparksj

You're right. If Para was not bought out, where would they be? But they were. So what's your point. Put down the Sony cool aid and step away from teh table. Better yet, I challange you to give me one good reason why BR disk is better today. (and don't start with the , "they're future proof" thing, because I already agree with you there). Give me just one real world reason...

scratch resistance of the disc's themselves
has been on the market longer and is more a mature format than HD DVD
Blu-Ray has been on the market in asia and japan since apr 2003..its already tried and tested proved format. its already a standard before HD DVD was.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by sparksj
You're right. If Para was not bought out, where would they be? But they were. So what's your point. Put down the Sony cool aid and step away from teh table. Better yet, I challange you to give me one good reason why BR disk is better today. (and don't start with the , "they're future proof" thing, because I already agree with you there). Give me just one real world reason...


Jeez man, I think we have been giving you reasons non-stop for the past day or so...

Sony Kool-Aid? (corrected your spelling on that), I am not a Sony fanboy, the PS3 is the only Sony product I have, but the BDA is NOT just SONY! Heck, Panasonic has more into this than Sony!

It certainly took "Kool-Aid" to keep HD-DVD afloat didn't it?

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by joeorc

1% and 2% of one part of the market that DVD is in...good for HD DVD ... as for gaining on Blu-Ray...
no not now.. not in the future.... not ever....the reason why is because HD DVD will never sell more disc's than Blu-Ray that is a fact..the Movie industry is not the only market Blu-Ray sell their Blu-Ray disc's in...there is a reason why HD DVD is not ever going to sell more disc's and that is because its only in 2 markets of DVD that is MOVIE and blank DATA..but in even one of those Blu-Ray is still the cheaper cost per GB ..and that is Data back up. but not only that but already Blu-Ray is in PC software/HAND camcorder market...HD DVD is not in none of those markets. HD DVD is a Movie format but not in the HAND CAMCORDER market yet.

Dude, you don't even make any sense... When confronted with actual figures showing percentage of sales increasing for HD DVD, you still say their not catching up. Not sure what math they taught you in school, but just so you know, an increase of 2% means more. Look it up if you don't believe me. I wouldn't lie to you.

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by sj001

Originally Posted by sparksj
You're right. If Para was not bought out, where would they be? But they were. So what's your point. Put down the Sony cool aid and step away from the table. Better yet, I challenge you to give me one good reason why BR disk is better today. (and don't start with the , "they're future proof" thing, because I already agree with you there). Give me just one real world reason...


Jeez man, I think we have been giving you reasons non-stop for the past day or so...

Sony Kool-Aid? (corrected your spelling on that), I am not a Sony fanboy, the PS3 is the only Sony product I have, but the BDA is NOT just SONY! Heck, Panasonic has more into this than Sony!

It certainly took "Kool-Aid" to keep HD-DVD afloat didn't it?

Okay, then list one real advantage???
So far we have gone through things like:
Bitrate - Not shown as a real advantage right now (see post above)
Capacity - Most producers of the 50GB BRD only have a 10% success rate and have to trash 90% because they don't work (Figures as of 8/31/07) maybe it's better now???
Video Quality - No real data yet, mostly subjective. No hard evidence
Lossless Sound - I have heard many on here swear by it, but have yet to see a link to any hard facts.
1080i vs. 1080p - No difference as long as your TV is not a tube TV and displays 1080p.


If you read all my posts you'll see that I'm not saying HD DVD is better by any means. My whole point all along is that, in today's world, there is not enough difference between the two to make the price difference relevant.

Mostly I have just seen statements about how superior BR is. I just don't see any data pointing to facts on this. Unless you just really like the color blue. I have said all along that BR IS the better long term format, but we will not really see the difference until next year. I'm just hoping it can hold out that long. We would all be better off it won. I just think that based on today’s standards, the Price point in HD DVD is enough to give it the boost it may need to come out on top.

As soon as I said that everyone got freaked out and said, "No! BR rules... It's the best.... superior to HD DVD... blah blah blah". Sony needs to get its head out of the clouds and realize that the difference is not as great as they would like to think it is. Unless the understand that, the rug may get pulled out from under them and we may lose out on what one day will become the best option (BRD).

Everyone just got so offended that I dared to question BR superiority; they went in to a frenzy of attacks. I was never out to say that HD DVD is better in any way.

Sheezz! Relax everyone.

[Studio Support]

Originally Posted by Killer Cop

Hi.

I have a simple question. What make people think that HD-DVD is better than Blu-ray?

I mean, Blu-ray have larger space, bigger bitstream and better protection. What on earth does HD-DVD has of advantages???

HD DVD’s are:
- Cheaper to produce
- They can use existing DVD fabs to make HD DVD's
- HD DVD is cheaper to make & have much better yields.
- It's the only Hi Def format to be approved by the DVD Forum
- Does not have Profile problems like Blu-Ray has
- All past, present & future players & movies are guaranteed compatibility w/ each other
- HD DVD was completely approved & standardized before it was ever released
- HD DVD’s standardized spec’s outperform Blu-Ray’s current unstandardized specs
- HD DVD proved that Disc Capacity is not a factor
- etc.

[sparksj]

Originally Posted by Studio Support

HD DVD’s are:
- Cheaper to produce
- They can use existing DVD fabs to make HD DVD's
- HD DVD is cheaper to make & have much better yields.
- It's the only Hi Def format to be approved by the DVD Forum
- Does not have Profile problems like Blu-Ray has
- All past, present & future players & movies are guaranteed compatibility w/ each other
- HD DVD was completely approved & standardized before it was ever released
- HD DVD’s standardized spec’s outperform Blu-Ray’s current unstandardized specs
- HD DVD proved that Disc Capacity is not a factor
- etc.

Thank you I was starting to feel like a mouse in a room full of cats...

[WickyWoo]

I'm so glad the 2 FUDers found each other. Now they can go on vacation together too

[oldmike]

omg LOL man that was sooo funny

[sj001]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

I'm so glad the 2 FUDers found each other. Now they can go on vacation together too

You're telling me, jeez, delusional and full of FUD.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by sparksj

Okay, then list one real advantage???
So far we have gone through things like:
Bitrate - Not shown as a real advantage right now (see post above)

Bit rate limitation is exactly why Transformers lacks lossless audio. That in turn exposes the capacity limitation of HD DVD. Bit rate is HD DVD biggest problem.

Capacity - Most producers of the 50GB BRD only have a 10% success rate and have to trash 90% because they don't work (Figures as of 8/31/07) maybe it's better now???

Sony says otherwise, Sony would be a more trusted source than you or a movie reviewer.

Video Quality - No real data yet, mostly subjective. No hard evidence

BD reviewers scores average higher on video quality.

site # of HD DVD titles/# of BD titles
HDD 279HD/303BD
HTS 251HD/270BD
HTF 104HD/107BD
UD 150HD/133BD
Talk 306HD/322BD
as of 10.31.07

PQ    SQ  Total Studio  
4.18 4.36 4.27  Buena Vista - BR exclusive
3.99 4.16 4.08  Sony - BR exclusive
3.81 4.08 3.95  Fox - BR exclusive
4.01 3.84 3.93  Paramount - HD DVD exclusive
3.96 3.66 3.81  Warner - format neutral
3.63 3.80 3.72  Lions Gate - BR exclusive
3.80 3.63 3.71  Weinstein - HD DVD exclusive
3.71 3.63 3.67  Universal - HD DVD exclusive

Thanks to Dobyblu whose sig I stole that from...sucks to be HD DVD fan and under the illusion that it has better PQ or AQ when it doesn't.

Lossless Sound - I have heard many on here swear by it, but have yet to see a link to any hard facts.

I have yet to see any hard facts or links that support lossy sounding better the lossless, yet my ears tell me via first hand experience that lossless is miles better than lossy.


1080i vs. 1080p - No difference as long as your TV is not a tube TV and displays 1080p.

Half true, so why not give all the information? If your TV properly de-interlaces 1080i, it will look the same as 1080p...if not, then 1080p will look better.

Sigh - even though your gone...I will still fix your FUD, see above. When will you ever learn?

So where's the vacation?

[Nicadian]

i was talking today with my bro, he is the oldest, and were talking about stuff. We chatted about hd dvd vs blu ray. I said all the facts about blu. The he told me that when he went to this store called Audio One (this store in toronto canada that they sell really good audio equipment like B&W speakers, all the elite line of panasonic and so forth). They told him that Hd DVD is the superior format in terms of image and sound and that blu ray are just more than regualr DVD's with just minor adjustment to PQ. When he told me i just laughed.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by Nicadian

i was talking today with my bro, he is the oldest, and were talking about stuff. We chatted about hd dvd vs blu ray. I said all the facts about blu. The he told me that when he went to this store called Audio One (this store in toronto canada that they sell really good audio equipment like B&W speakers, all the elite line of panasonic and so forth). They told him that Hd DVD is the superior format in terms of image and sound and that blu ray are just more than regualr DVD's with just minor adjustment to PQ. When he told me i just laughed.

^ WHAT??? I know Audio One and am going there this weekend...time to fix this....

[Nicadian]

i am not making things up. i just talked to my bro like 20 minutes ago and that what they told him. He was there like a week ago because he was getting a new tv.

[Anthony P]

Bitrate - Not shown as a real advantage right now (see post above)

there is a lot evidence such as better PQ anbd lossless audio (like the two versions of Natures Journey
or as simple as Transformers has no lossless audio while many Sony tiles have more then one

Capacity - Most producers of the 50GB BRD only have a 10% success rate and have to trash 90% because they don't work (Figures as of 8/31/07) maybe it's better now???

so capacity is not a benefit because you beleive some insane made up numbers on replication? Most BDs come out as DL now.

Video Quality - No real data yet, mostly subjective. No hard evidence
Lossless Sound - I have heard many on here swear by it, but have yet to see a link to any hard facts.

look at Dobyblu signature that has the tally of reviews from most review sites no matter how red bias they are

1080i vs. 1080p - No difference as long as your TV is not a tube TV and displays 1080p.

if you have an old SD tube then there is no difference (but then again you are most likely not getting 1080 either), if you have anything digital then there is a big difference most of the time i is not properly de-interlaced on a progressive display



If you read all my posts you'll see that I'm not saying HD DVD is better by any means. [/quote]

[Sling]

Sorry you got suspended Spark.
Members like sparksj are very valuable to this Forum.They have nothing to promote the HD-DUD format with so they make them up then getting that reality check of Blu-ray facts.This is very productive chat for onlookers of Blu-ray.com forum letting them know Blu-Ray is the better format.
Better hardware and Movies...Go Blu-ray

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by sparksj

Here are the advantages of HD DVD:
1. Price. Like it or not that's a factor. That's why people shop at Walmart even though the store clerks are clueless and can't help you with anything.
2. Players. HD DVD has always had the functionality that Blu Ray is just now catching up to.
3. Bit Rate: Actually the bit rate on HD DVD is slightly faster than BR giving better color. That has recently changed with the 1.1 release of BR so not that big of an advantage now.
4. The disk capacity is pretty much a non issue right now. The standard HD movie uses about 15 GB for a 2 hour movie. Since both formats currently support 50 GB (though in the future it will be more), there is still a lot of unused space. Only a small portion of that will be used for extras and downloadable content. The only benefit to BR will be the possibility of fiting the Star Wars series on 2 disks instead of 4. Not a big issue in most people's book.
5. As much as all of the "techies" hate to admit it, picture and sound quality are also a non issue. Sure, BR has lossless sound and all the other fancy sounding stuff. But, besides the fact that 95% of the people can't tell the difference, there are so many other factors affecting your viewing experience (TV quality, sound system, coding on the disk) that there is really no clear winner in the two.

Wow . . . that's a whole lot of crap. I'd LOVE to be privy to how 1.1 produces better color, and how the bit rate is "faster" on HD DVD. That's one of the best lil' gems I've heard in awhile.

Edit: Jesus Christ, I just read the whole thread. WTF is up with the attack the last two weeks?