AVS closes HDM forums because of BS

[ckenisell]

Originally Posted by Rob Zuber

Please. This is being far too kind to AVS ownership. They made a conscious choice to align themselves with Amir and his lying ways. Not only did they do nothing to stop him, they rewarded him with his own personal little playground in the insiders thread where he could spread propaganda without being challenged. "Discussions" with him became pointless, because the mods would delete all my points and leave his posts in tact.

You make it sound like the owners are innocent bystanders. They are not. They are reaping what they've sown. Their reputation should be damaged by the actions they've taken.

I'm with you on this one. I PM'd the main dude over at AVS a couple of months ago telling him why I was leaving his site. His response was polite, but my point was that they needed better moderators over there. I honestly believe they are pro-HD-DVD, but I also think they know HD-DVD is going to lose, which, in my opinion, is why they shut it down.

1. They were supporting the obvious loser. Shut it down, make it seem like they are just "cleaning up", when, in all reality, they're just trying to bow out without being noticed.
2. When Amir "left" that was a big loss for HD-DVD because nobody lied about HD-DVD and Blu-Ray better than that spinmeister. That should have been the first sign that HD-DVD was losing big time support.
3. I saw Pro-Blu-Ray threads in the Blu-Ray area get shut down (that's when I figured out that the mods support HD-DVD.)
4. Just look at the news on their home page. It's about 90% supportive of HD-DVD. The other 10% is just there to make them look like they are "neutral".

I don't buy for a single second that they aren't Pro-HD-DVD, but even they realize it's going nowhere. What kind of message will this send to Warner? AVS was HD-DVDs biggest forum.

All I can say is, if you like Blu-Ray.com, stay here. Don't go back to AVS even if they do "clean up" their HD media forums. They've already lost the credibility and don't deserve the chance to gain it back.

[Esox50]

I'll be short and sweet...F*ck em over there.

Ok seriously, now that I feel better, I will say that what drove me here was "nuetral" idiots constantly posting BD in the BD section. How people like GizmoDVD et al are allowed to continue posting in the BD section is beyond me. This past weekend, I noted to members here what looked to be co-ordinated "innocent" stuff over at AVS in the BD section. It was ridiculous. Finally, for me, when we had the SAOCD BS over here with the "WB is going BD exclusive" hoax that was a deliberate attack on this forum from some folk from AVS, I lost all respect for AVS.

It's time they clean up, or just forget the HDM forums all together.

[PrinceLH]

Originally Posted by ckenisell

I'm with you on this one. I PM'd the main dude over at AVS a couple of months ago telling him why I was leaving his site. His response was polite, but my point was that they needed better moderators over there. I honestly believe they are pro-HD-DVD, but I also think they know HD-DVD is going to lose, which, in my opinion, is why they shut it down.

1. They were supporting the obvious loser. Shut it down, make it seem like they are just "cleaning up", when, in all reality, they're just trying to bow out without being noticed.
2. When Amir "left" that was a big loss for HD-DVD because nobody lied about HD-DVD and Blu-Ray better than that spinmeister. That should have been the first sign that HD-DVD was losing big time support.
3. I saw Pro-Blu-Ray threads in the Blu-Ray area get shut down (that's when I figured out that the mods support HD-DVD.)
4. Just look at the news on their home page. It's about 90% supportive of HD-DVD. The other 10% is just there to make them look like they are "neutral".

I don't buy for a single second that they aren't Pro-HD-DVD, but even they realize it's going nowhere. What kind of message will this send to Warner? AVS was HD-DVDs biggest forum.

All I can say is, if you like Blu-Ray.com, stay here. Don't go back to AVS even if they do "clean up" their HD media forums. They've already lost the credibility and don't deserve the chance to gain it back.

I have been spending more time here, the last couple of months. I will continue to challenge FUD there, because the uninformed need to have both sides of the story. I refuse to surrender any ground to these people and will continue to fight for the Blu side.

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by Esox50

I'll be short and sweet...F*ck em over there.

How people like GizmoDVD et al . . .

YES!! Fu*k that guy! He's ALWAYS talking shit and nobody ever does anything about it. Him, rdjam and HighDef4Life have given me the worst case of the red ass I've had in awhile. I finally just gave up arguing because even after they were proven wrong they were allowed to talk smack and spread lies, so I started reporting every single post I found to be distracting. Didn't seem to do any good. Of course, maybe that's part of why it's shut down . . .

[Skyhawk]

Originally Posted by PrinceLH

That is the sham of AVS, a website that I had been a member of since the year 2000.

Nice to see another from AVS in early on in 2000, when the debate was about how silly we were to use those $5,000 cheap "data projectors" with movies instead of investing in a CRT front projector with 9" guns

It's funny to see how thing have changed so much... and so little there

[PrinceLH]

Originally Posted by BStecke

YES!! Fu*k that guy! He's ALWAYS talking shit and nobody ever does anything about it. Him, rdjam (if I'm correct) and HighDef4Life have given me the worst case of the red ass I've had in awhile. I finally just gave up arguing because even after they were proven wrong they'd still just hang around and spread lies, so I started reporting every single post I found to be distracting. Didn't seem to do any good.

Don't forget about Lee Stewart, Kosty and MichaelHDDVD as part of their acolyte following!

[emilsjr]

Originally Posted by Rob Zuber

Please. This is being far too kind to AVS ownership. They made a conscious choice to align themselves with Amir and his lying ways. Not only did they do nothing to stop him, they rewarded him with his own personal little playground in the insiders thread where he could spread propaganda without being challenged. "Discussions" with him became pointless, because the mods would delete all my points and leave his posts in tact.

You make it sound like the owners are innocent bystanders. They are not. They are reaping what they've sown. Their reputation should be damaged by the actions they've taken.

Totally agree.

When Michael Bay's website singled them out as the HD-DVD side of the debate, I think it shows what happened to their reputation. Could not have happened to a more deserving place.

[PrinceLH]

Originally Posted by Skyhawk

Nice to see another from AVS in early on in 2000, when the debate was about how silly we were to use those $5,000 cheap "data projectors" with movies instead of investing in a CRT front projector with 9" guns

It's funny to see how thing have changed so much... and so little there

Your right. It was all about the new CRT HDTV's, Directv, Dishnetwork, Dolby 5.1 and DTS back then. Now it's HDM, satellite radio and 7.1 lossless audio. It never ends but gets more advanced and more expensive.

[Blu-Light]

Originally Posted by emilsjr

Totally agree.

When Michael Bay's website singled them out as the HD-DVD side of the debate, I think it shows what happened to their reputation. Could not have happened to a more deserving place.

That really struck a cord with them....The public and private perception all across the web is that AVS is bias towards HD DVD.

[RickD]

Originally Posted by BStecke

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/annou...hp?f=152&a=116

Pretty interesting. It was getting pretty bad.

It's about time! The rest of AVS is NOTHING like the HD areas. Their projector forums have helped me research my last two projectors.

I still think part of the problem was with the way they let some of the insiders run wild. It set a terrible example for the rest.

Rick

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

Regardless of whether or not AVSForum is pro HD DVD or neutral, their moderation of the Blu-ray software board drove me to Blu-ray.com.

I can understand that.

Originally Posted by Rob Zuber

Please. This is being far too kind to AVS ownership. They made a conscious choice to align themselves with Amir and his lying ways. Not only did they do nothing to stop him, they rewarded him with his own personal little playground in the insiders thread where he could spread propaganda without being challenged. "Discussions" with him became pointless, because the mods would delete all my points and leave his posts in tact.

You make it sound like the owners are innocent bystanders. They are not. They are reaping what they've sown. Their reputation should be damaged by the actions they've taken.

You're wrong. I'm sure you know there aren't many people who trust Amir less than I do or have put more time into trying to make sure he doesn't successfully mislead people, but what you claimed just isn't true. People here can want it to be true, but it isn't. You can blame a mod or two if you want or blame the people at the top for not realizing what was happening on those forums, but your claim about some "conscious choice" by the ownership "to align themselves with Amir and his lying ways" is just not true, as I said. In retrospect, I'm not sure the insiders thread would be created, but they did try to have both sides in there. I think Amir is both capable and willing to deceive and/or try to keep people deceived once they are (some are only capable, but not willing) on a level that few are and so that definitely skewed things one way though.

And in case it wasn't clear, yes I have discussed this with the ownership. I personally feel for them as I know they want it to be a place of learning with fun, and without deception.

As I've said before, I don't think some of the kind of deception we saw there would work on the projector forums, mostly because there were more knowledgeable people there who could fight that kind of deception. But these formats were new and complicated and a person who wanted to deceive and was willing to use their insider status to do it, could get away with a lot more.

--Darin

[Iceman_II]

Originally Posted by Rob Zuber

Please. This is being far too kind to AVS ownership. They made a conscious choice to align themselves with Amir and his lying ways. Not only did they do nothing to stop him, they rewarded him with his own personal little playground in the insiders thread where he could spread propaganda without being challenged. "Discussions" with him became pointless, because the mods would delete all my points and leave his posts in tact.

You make it sound like the owners are innocent bystanders. They are not. They are reaping what they've sown. Their reputation should be damaged by the actions they've taken.

+1

I think a quote from Shakespear is appropriate here... if they were truly neutral, they wouldn't need to proclaim their neutrality...

"Methinks they dost protest too much"

If the owners are truly neutral, they have treated their little corner of the internet as if they were an absentee landlord by irresponsibly appointing mods and admins who are decidedly biased... you can delegate responsibility, but you can't delegate accountability, the owners are accountable for the mess their representatives, the mods and admins, have made of their site.

[Skyhawk]

Originally Posted by PrinceLH

Your right. It was all about the new CRT HDTV's, Directv, Dishnetwork, Dolby 5.1 and DTS back then. Now it's HDM, satellite radio and 7.1 lossless audio. It never ends but gets more advanced and more expensive.

More expensive? You have to be kidding. You don't want to know how much my first DVD player cost!

My first XGA projector, Infocus LP350 cost me more than $5,000 Canadian. You can look up the specs

My last purchase, a 1080p Optoma HD80 cost me about $2,300 Canadian. And the PS3 is a fraction of the price of my first DVD player. And this is being an "Early Adopter" today? GOD I LOVE IT!

[dakota81]

I almost wonder if AVS shutting down could be in large part to all the crap that goes on every time someone posts a "rumor" Warner is picking a side. Imagine what it's like when everyone who has an inside contact starts hammering their contacts asking about every rumor that runs wild there. We just had the latest episode last week.

[WickyWoo]

You know, I don't believe the owners over at AVS have really ever figured out what's really going on in there.

They think it's just fanboy *****ing.

The admins in the HDM area are so enamored with "big hollywood/MS guy talked to meeee!!!!!!" that they refuse to see anything they do as wrong or potentially biased. I see this kind of thing all the time with other areas of fandom. It boils down to "Sure he's wrong/did something bad,but he's my friend so I'll gang up and attack you anyway"

I hope that the heads of AVS got a major wakeup call that lead to this, and that someday their HD media area can come back and be like the other 90% of the forum.

[PrinceLH]

Originally Posted by Skyhawk

More expensive? You have to be kidding. You don't want to know how much my first DVD player cost!

My first XGA projector, Infocus LP350 cost me more than $5,000 Canadian. You can look up the specs

My last purchase, a 1080p Optoma HD80 cost me about $2,300 Canadian. And the PS3 is a fraction of the price of my first DVD player. And this is being an "Early Adopter" today? GOD I LOVE IT!

It's cumulitive. My first DVD player, a Toshiba, cost me $1000.00 from Majestic Electronics, in Toronto. It had no DTS or progressive scan. My first HDTV was a 34" Toshiba CRT, $3,800.00, at Leon's, after a negotiation session. I also had a grey market DTV Hughes E86, using my U.S. P.O. Box, with two great channels, ESPN and HBO. It was glorious! That cost me over $600.00US, when it was one U.S. Dollar costing 1.56 Canadian dollars. Wow, have times changed! It just costs more to upgrade now, since technology is changing at an ever increasing rate. It's almost time for a new Blu Ray player, once profile 2.0 arrives!

[darinp2]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

The admins in the HDM area are so enamored with "big hollywood/MS guy talked to meeee!!!!!!" that they refuse to see anything they do as wrong or potentially biased. I see this kind of thing all the time with other areas of fandom. It boils down to "Sure he's wrong/did something bad,but he's my friend so I'll gang up and attack you anyway".

I'm not sure whether that part applies to the admins, but I think it does apply to many people over there. I personally consider the thing with Amir much like children who are given candy by an adult. As long as that adult gives them candy those children will defend that adult almost no matter what. In this case, the bargain seems to be that people get some inside information, and they will help him deceive others and/or not mind if he deceives them.

I think most of the admins over there were trying to do the right thing, although I suspect that one of them is fairly biased. The most disappointing thing to me was when one of the mods (the one I suspect is biased) deleted one of my posts that simply pointed out that what Amir said wasn't true and asked him to fix it. And whether it was true or not wasn't even debatable, as it was clearly false (although maybe just a mistake). It wasn't true and invalidated most of his claims after to a large degree. The mods excuse for wanting false information to stay was that people shouldn't only read the insider's thread and so they'll probably get the right information elsewhere. I personally thought that was pretty pitiful.

--Darin

[mel2]

I rarely ever post in the hdtv software discussion forum over there because of the names of the hd dvd posters listed in the previous posts. I usually just laugh at how crazy they can be. it's usually their fuzzy math or just plain stupidity. kosty and Lee S. post soo much that sometimes they even accidently reply to their own posts. no lie. All I see over there is how wal-mart sold a million A2's but yet they forget to announce that the new 40g PS3 debuted that week also. they only acknowledge what's best for them. then you have your zealots that are programmed to spew nothing but hate for blu-ray like michaelhddvd, highdef4life, infinity, and a few more. I remember when they loved michael bay but when bay changed his tune, the hate spewed forth. For proof just look at all the polls going on over there. all of them are pro-hddvd. there are actually people over there that think hd dvd will win the nielson week even though spider-man just debuted.

[PrinceLH]

Originally Posted by dakota81

I almost wonder if AVS shutting down could be in large part to all the crap that goes on every time someone posts a "rumor" Warner is picking a side. Imagine what it's like when everyone who has an inside contact starts hammering their contacts asking about every rumor that runs wild there. We just had the latest episode last week.

Your right. The stupid slanted polls were the worsed!

[Skyhawk]

Originally Posted by PrinceLH

It's cumulitive.

Please don't say the word "cumulative" here. My wife might see your post and decide to take out a calculator and add up the last 15 years worth of my AV related purchases. That would be a Bad Thing

Just agree that everything new is sooo much cheaper now, and that I've got to upgrade again soon!