Blu-ray could end the format war IF.... - Blu-ray Forum

Glow007 · 11-12-2007, 06:57 PM

Okay, I know we are all sick of these, but I am seriously wondering this question....

I am all about the highest quality possible...but it seems that the price trumps all card gets played alot by the HD-duders...so my question is...Why doesnt BD come out with a 1080i player like HD does for oh say 150-200 bucks. I wouldnt buy it, but I know alot of people would.

Why doesnt BD have an entry level player that is only 1080i at the same price as HD? Atleast until the dud is dead and gone? By then the 1080p players will be down around 200 and it wont matter. The 1080p HD players are the same price as the BD players, the only thing that makes the price question even relevent is because of the 1080i player. So beat em at their own game and put out a player that does the same.

Then they have nothing left. I hate to compromise the format but people who want the best quality will still have an awesome lineup of full HD 1080p players to choose from. But I really think that this would kill the war. Not dropping prices of current players, but releasing a new player, even if not full 1080p that could sit right next to the 200 HD player with the same price tag.

The choice is a no brainer to those who actually research before they buy, Blu-ray no question. But for those 100,000 that waisted their money on the A2, could have and would have done the same thing if they could have got a BD player for around the same price.

Anyhow, let me know what you think.

Spider1981 · 11-12-2007, 07:02 PM

I totally agree. I think the one challenge would be getting a company to sell that player at a loss to match Toshiba's hack-n-slash prices. The big difference between Toshiba (HD DVD) and All other CE's (Blu), is Toshiba is so heavily vested in this war and it's their decision to sell at a loss, whereas all the other companies back Blu without being as heavily vested (maybe except Panasonic?)
The big appeal of them backing Blu is they can make a profit off of it. I think they may be afraid stooping to Toshiba's level on the Blu side would throw everything out of whack, and not make them any money.

ClaytonMG · 11-12-2007, 07:08 PM

Personally, I don't want them to start making cheap players just to let people get into this war like Toshiba does. One of the things that I like about Sony and all these other companies that make Blu-Ray players are making high quality, top of the line machines. They're not cheaply made, faulty players like the cheaper 1080i Toshiba players are. One of the reasons Toshiba is making these cheap 1080i players is because they're desperate. All they want are the people that are looking for deals and that don't understand the whole format "war." They want the people that see a deal and go for it.

tron3 · 11-12-2007, 07:09 PM

The cost of the subcomponents to do so are probably a few dollars difference at best. You are paying for the "functional ability" of the player, and less the cost of the actual hardware. Now, if someone has different info, I would like to know.

Ever notice how a 1GB ipod-type device is one price and the 2GB version is almost 100 bucks more? The cost difference in production is nominal at best. Same thing here for our players.

The idea of blu-ray is to "keep moving forward" (RE:Meet the Robinsons), not going backwards. If that were the case why not a player that supports only 720p?

Spider, you never got back to us on that blu-bloods t-shirt. Fer shame.

shatta · 11-12-2007, 07:11 PM

u mean 1080i at the higest reso.....???BDA jus dont wanna stoop so low...1080i

Luis_A51 · 11-12-2007, 07:11 PM

low quality "entry level" products tend to cheapen the brand.

BD is already winning, why do something potentially damaging?

Finally, even if they made a 1080i player, they couldnt price it as cheap as Toshiba. WHy? For starters toshiba subsidizes there players, and secondly an entirely new product would require some added R&D moneys.

Spider1981 · 11-12-2007, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tron3

The cost of the subcomponents to do so are probably a few dollars difference at best. You are paying for the "functional ability" of the player, and less the cost of the actual hardware. Now, if someone has different info, I would like to know.

Ever notice how a 1GB ipod-type device is one price and the 2GB version is almost 100 bucks more? The cost difference in production is nominal at best. Same thing here for our players.

The idea of blu-ray is to "keep moving forward" (RE:Meet the Robinsons), not going backwards. If that were the case why not a player that supports only 720p?

Spider, you never got back to us on that blu-bloods t-shirt. Fer shame.

Oh, I worked on it for quite a while, and I have a nice rendition of the artwork at home, but I thought us Blu-Bloods kind of got slapped on the hands and told to calm down at one point around that time, and didn't think I was supposed to keep working on it after that. If I am, let me know, and I'll finish the artwork

JJ · 11-12-2007, 07:47 PM

For the record, I fully agree with Clayton.

sokrman14 · 11-12-2007, 07:53 PM

My employee price for the Sony BDPS300 is around $330, which means the retail company buys it for around $300, which means that Sony probably makes them for about $150-200. I think they could drop the price if they wanted to, and I am sure that they will.

gvortex7 · 11-12-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokrman14

My employee price for the Sony BDPS300 is around $330, which means the retail company buys it for around $300, which means that Sony probably makes them for about $150-200. I think they could drop the price if they wanted to, and I am sure that they will.

Don't forget that one of the main reasons Blu-ray was invented (besides the obvious benefits to consumers) is that due to being an entirely new technology consumer electronics companies are able to charge higher prices and have much higher profit margins which were pretty much non-existent with the current DVD player market. This excites a lot of executives in many of these companies, so they're not about to just suddenly start dropping player prices and diminish their profit margins because Toshiba/HD DVD is trying to force them to do it.
Price drops will be gradual and over time, and not over-night.

WickyWoo · 11-12-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Why doesnt BD have an entry level player that is only 1080i at the same price as HD? Atleast until the dud is dead and gone?

Because the actual cost savings between 1080i and 1080p is negligable on the deck level. Almost certainly it's possible to flash the hardware on those A2s to output 1080p were someone to put the time in.

Because they have their loss-leader entry-level deck, they need a good reason for you to pay the extra $3-400 for the X series

It's the display where that is a big cost jump

docjan_uk · 11-12-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gvortex7

Don't forget that one of the main reasons Blu-ray was invented (besides the obvious benefits to consumers) is that due to being an entirely new technology consumer electronics companies are able to charge higher prices and have much higher profit margins which were pretty much non-existent with the current DVD player market. This excites a lot of executives in many of these companies, so they're not about to just suddenly start dropping player prices and diminish their profit margins because Toshiba/HD DVD is trying to force them to do it.
Price drops will be gradual and over time, and not over-night.

In the end the mass market and cheap prices turns into a chicken egg situation. Somewhat besides the point though, they need new technologies etc to stimulate a flat market.
"Everyone" already bought into the DVD market. Now they want those same people and more to buy into the HD market. What better way to stimulate sales than get everyone to double dip on stuff they've already bought?!

navychop · 11-12-2007, 09:58 PM

Toshiba is pretty much the only company making and pushing HD DVD players, and is taking a loss on each one. I think they may have sold a few under another name. And there's a cheapo Chinese player out there, if you can find it.

But there are several companies making Blu-ray players, and advertising them and pushing the Blu-ray format. They can make a profit doing so.

Better to have several companies pushing the format, than just one. Studios can change sides rather quickly. Manufacturing can't.

Storm · 11-12-2007, 10:06 PM

Would not the introduction of a low end player, that is not 1080p only stand to confuse the market place more. Sony has invested large money in advertising on the Beyond High Definition campaign.
I have no issues paying more for better quality.
I see it more as perceived value. Until it closed, (this was a few years ago) I bought most of my new DVD's at Suncoast. I knew going in the door that I was paying more for the movies up front and I could buy cheaper at Wal-Mart, even when getting my members club "check". I was not for the lithographs, bobbleheads or trinkets you would get with certain movies.
I was beause I liked the staff and the service I received.
With Wal-Mart, I have yet to meet an associate that knows I as much as I about the format. They look confused and say "what's a blu ray."

supersix4 · 11-12-2007, 10:24 PM

like I've said 1000000 times ... YOU WILL ALWAYS PAY FOR QUALITY! go over to the BMW fourms and ask hey why dont they make the M5 10,000$ theyd sell alot

maybe breaking it down like that helps you ...

Jonalan34 · 11-12-2007, 11:41 PM

Only way when you can see end is when they run out of money and can't get postive in surplus and losing alot of money. It happen to Divx back in 1999 that year DVD won the format war. I read it on Bill Hunt which he keep most articles from 1997 to now, it was very interest to see how it unfolded. Circuit City drain alot of money that was not able to generate money to cover the fees and cause Dvx to discountined it and DVD become only format after that.

Quote from article on Bill Hunt , Digital bits

Quote:

No doubt you've heard the rumors circulated by the newswires today: from Yahoo, CNet and others, comes word that Circuit City's corporate stock has jumped to an all time high, on rumors that Blockbuster Video may be about to buy a share of Divx. The $200 million spent on Divx has been a serious financial drain for Circuit City, and the electronics retailer has been scrambling to find an investor to help defer these costs. No doubt they're eager to get a deal done before the company must make its report to stockholders early next month. Neither Circuit City, Divx, Blockbuster or Viacom (Blockbuster's parent company) will acknowledge these rumors. Notice however, that Viacom's stock is down slightly as a result. And as a matter of perspective, I'd also like to call attention to the fact that Circuit City competitor Best Buy's stock is doing quite well at the moment. "Best Buy Co. is the No. 1 consumer-electronics retailer in sales," according to even these same stories on the alleged Divx deal.
3/18/1999

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa11.html

Quote:

NOTE: Thanks to Bits reader Ian Cameron Smith, for his contribution to the site today. He added the "We Win!" to the anti-Divx logo on our button bar, and we couldn't agree more with the sentiment. DVD fans everywhere are the winners today. Thanks, Ian!

Well, the repercussions from the death of Divx just keep coming. You should all check out Yahoo's In Depth Coverage page, with links to lots of articles on the demise of the "pay-per-dubious" format. The Washington Post and Wired both have stories up today, among many others. The rejoicing continues.

A reader who claims to be a manager of a Circuit City store reports to me today, that store managers and employees were informed of the Divx shutdown at 8 AM this morning. The stores are dumping loads of Divx software at $1.99 a disc today, and customers are being given instant $100 discounts right at the register on the remaining Divx players, so "all Divx customers are being taken care of". Also, he reports that sales people are quite happily removing all of the Divx signage in his store, and that they're glad not to have to push the technology any longer. I don't blame them.

6/17/1999

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa15.html

mystiksuicide · 11-12-2007, 11:52 PM

I hope Blu never stoops to the level of the inferior format known as hd dvd.
That what separated us from them, quality versus garbage.

dmunjal · 11-12-2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supersix14

like I've said 1000000 times ... YOU WILL ALWAYS PAY FOR QUALITY! go over to the BMW fourms and ask hey why dont they make the M5 10,000$ theyd sell alot

maybe breaking it down like that helps you ...

But they do make an M3, don't they?

You guys don't understand marketing at all. What's the best selling BMW, the 3-Series. What's the best selling Mercedes, the C-class. What's the best selling Lexus, the E series.

No one is saying dilute the Blu-ray brand but you have to give customers options. I think Sony is realizing that now with the PS3 and to some success.

Shawnsmail35 · 11-13-2007, 12:08 AM

You want to end this war. Release Star Wars original trilogy and LoTR on Blu Ray only and the war is done. Then again The Original Star Wars trilogy would end the war on its own LoTR would just be bonus

Kirsty_Mc · 11-13-2007, 12:15 AM

There needs to be a spread of players, each targeting their part of the market. High end, mid range and budget.

Enthusiasts will go for the high end players and the upper mid range players. This group will probably have a decent panel or projector to take advantage of the player and a sound system to suit.

General consumers will probably go for mid range player.

If you are in the market for a budget player (say £100 to 150 (UK)), then you'll probably have a budget panel (possibly unbranded).

I do see an opportunity for some company (probably Chinese) to enter this sector of the market, and as such would be a good thing for Blu-ray. Major brands (Sony, Panasonic etc...) would probably stick with the mid to upper range players. Sony did itself quite a lot of harm in the eyes of consumers (it did in mine) a few years back when they tried to compete on price at the expense of quality. A lesson which seems to have been learned the hard way!!!

11-12-2007, 06:57 PM	#1
Glow007 Active Member Member since:Jun 2007	Blu-ray could end the format war IF.... Okay, I know we are all sick of these, but I am seriously wondering this question.... I am all about the highest quality possible...but it seems that the price trumps all card gets played alot by the HD-duders...so my question is...Why doesnt BD come out with a 1080i player like HD does for oh say 150-200 bucks. I wouldnt buy it, but I know alot of people would. Why doesnt BD have an entry level player that is only 1080i at the same price as HD? Atleast until the dud is dead and gone? By then the 1080p players will be down around 200 and it wont matter. The 1080p HD players are the same price as the BD players, the only thing that makes the price question even relevent is because of the 1080i player. So beat em at their own game and put out a player that does the same. Then they have nothing left. I hate to compromise the format but people who want the best quality will still have an awesome lineup of full HD 1080p players to choose from. But I really think that this would kill the war. Not dropping prices of current players, but releasing a new player, even if not full 1080p that could sit right next to the 200 HD player with the same price tag. The choice is a no brainer to those who actually research before they buy, Blu-ray no question. But for those 100,000 that waisted their money on the A2, could have and would have done the same thing if they could have got a BD player for around the same price. Anyhow, let me know what you think.

11-12-2007, 07:09 PM	#4
tron3 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2004 Location:New Jersey Blu-ray reviews:3	The cost of the subcomponents to do so are probably a few dollars difference at best. You are paying for the "functional ability" of the player, and less the cost of the actual hardware. Now, if someone has different info, I would like to know. Ever notice how a 1GB ipod-type device is one price and the 2GB version is almost 100 bucks more? The cost difference in production is nominal at best. Same thing here for our players. The idea of blu-ray is to "keep moving forward" (RE:Meet the Robinsons), not going backwards. If that were the case why not a player that supports only 720p? Spider, you never got back to us on that blu-bloods t-shirt. Fer shame. Last edited by tron3; 11-12-2007 at 07:11 PM.

11-12-2007, 10:06 PM	#14
Storm Senior Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:North Carolina, USA Blu-ray collection:320 Trading Score:3	Would not the introduction of a low end player, that is not 1080p only stand to confuse the market place more. Sony has invested large money in advertising on the Beyond High Definition campaign. I have no issues paying more for better quality. I see it more as perceived value. Until it closed, (this was a few years ago) I bought most of my new DVD's at Suncoast. I knew going in the door that I was paying more for the movies up front and I could buy cheaper at Wal-Mart, even when getting my members club "check". I was not for the lithographs, bobbleheads or trinkets you would get with certain movies. I was beause I liked the staff and the service I received. With Wal-Mart, I have yet to meet an associate that knows I as much as I about the format. They look confused and say "what's a blu ray." Last edited by Storm; 11-12-2007 at 10:08 PM.

Similar Threads
thread	Forum	Thread Starter	Replies	Last Post
If the retailers want the format war to end, then why don't they simply end it?	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	DaViD Boulet	12	01-28-2008 03:01 PM
What is this? Format war never end....	General Chat	wwl36	10	01-16-2008 05:10 PM
Blu-ray will win format war at end of 2008, predicts Understanding & Solutions	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	HDTV1080P	6	01-07-2008 11:26 PM
What will end the format war?	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	stockstar1138	28	06-14-2007 12:01 PM
How to end the format war.	Blu-ray Technology and Future Technology	becomingwater	22	06-06-2007 04:55 PM

11-12-2007, 07:02 PM	#2
Spider1981 Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Jefferson City, MO. Posts: Eleventy Billion Blu-ray collection:138	I totally agree. I think the one challenge would be getting a company to sell that player at a loss to match Toshiba's hack-n-slash prices. The big difference between Toshiba (HD DVD) and All other CE's (Blu), is Toshiba is so heavily vested in this war and it's their decision to sell at a loss, whereas all the other companies back Blu without being as heavily vested (maybe except Panasonic?) The big appeal of them backing Blu is they can make a profit off of it. I think they may be afraid stooping to Toshiba's level on the Blu side would throw everything out of whack, and not make them any money.

11-12-2007, 07:08 PM	#3
ClaytonMG Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2006 Location:New Brighton, MN Home Theater Gallery:16 4K collection:833 Blu-ray collection:2370 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:1	Personally, I don't want them to start making cheap players just to let people get into this war like Toshiba does. One of the things that I like about Sony and all these other companies that make Blu-Ray players are making high quality, top of the line machines. They're not cheaply made, faulty players like the cheaper 1080i Toshiba players are. One of the reasons Toshiba is making these cheap 1080i players is because they're desperate. All they want are the people that are looking for deals and that don't understand the whole format "war." They want the people that see a deal and go for it.

11-12-2007, 07:11 PM	#5
shatta Expert Member Member since:Jun 2007 Location:New York	u mean 1080i at the higest reso.....???BDA jus dont wanna stoop so low...1080i

11-12-2007, 07:11 PM	#6
Luis_A51 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Calgary, AB Blu-ray reviews:4	low quality "entry level" products tend to cheapen the brand. BD is already winning, why do something potentially damaging? Finally, even if they made a 1080i player, they couldnt price it as cheap as Toshiba. WHy? For starters toshiba subsidizes there players, and secondly an entirely new product would require some added R&D moneys.

11-12-2007, 07:47 PM	#8
JJ Blu-ray Count Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Miami, FL Home Theater Gallery:99 4K collection:619 Blu-ray collection:1293 DVD collection:31 Digital collection:5 Blu-ray reviews: 18 Trading Score:203	For the record, I fully agree with Clayton.

11-12-2007, 07:53 PM	#9
sokrman14 Special Member Member since:Mar 2006 Location:Omaha, NE Home Theater Gallery:9 Blu-ray collection:32 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	My employee price for the Sony BDPS300 is around $330, which means the retail company buys it for around $300, which means that Sony probably makes them for about $150-200. I think they could drop the price if they wanted to, and I am sure that they will.

11-12-2007, 09:58 PM	#13
navychop Active Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Northern VA	Toshiba is pretty much the only company making and pushing HD DVD players, and is taking a loss on each one. I think they may have sold a few under another name. And there's a cheapo Chinese player out there, if you can find it. But there are several companies making Blu-ray players, and advertising them and pushing the Blu-ray format. They can make a profit doing so. Better to have several companies pushing the format, than just one. Studios can change sides rather quickly. Manufacturing can't.

11-12-2007, 10:24 PM	#15
supersix4 Blu-ray Archduke Top contributor Member since:Mar 2007 Blu-ray collection:572 Blu-ray reviews: 53 Trading Score:3	like I've said 1000000 times ... YOU WILL ALWAYS PAY FOR QUALITY! go over to the BMW fourms and ask hey why dont they make the M5 10,000$ theyd sell alot maybe breaking it down like that helps you ...

11-12-2007, 11:52 PM	#17
mystiksuicide Blu-ray Guru Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Miami Blu-ray collection:305 Blu-ray reviews:27	I hope Blu never stoops to the level of the inferior format known as hd dvd. That what separated us from them, quality versus garbage.

11-13-2007, 12:08 AM	#19
Shawnsmail35 Member Member since:Jul 2007	You want to end this war. Release Star Wars original trilogy and LoTR on Blu Ray only and the war is done. Then again The Original Star Wars trilogy would end the war on its own LoTR would just be bonus

11-13-2007, 12:15 AM	#20
Kirsty_Mc Power Member Top contributor Member since:Oct 2007 Location:UK Blu-ray collection:536 Blu-ray reviews: 21	There needs to be a spread of players, each targeting their part of the market. High end, mid range and budget. Enthusiasts will go for the high end players and the upper mid range players. This group will probably have a decent panel or projector to take advantage of the player and a sound system to suit. General consumers will probably go for mid range player. If you are in the market for a budget player (say £100 to 150 (UK)), then you'll probably have a budget panel (possibly unbranded). I do see an opportunity for some company (probably Chinese) to enter this sector of the market, and as such would be a good thing for Blu-ray. Major brands (Sony, Panasonic etc...) would probably stick with the mid to upper range players. Sony did itself quite a lot of harm in the eyes of consumers (it did in mine) a few years back when they tried to compete on price at the expense of quality. A lesson which seems to have been learned the hard way!!!

Best Blu-ray Movie Deals