Will Blu-Ray transfers be dumbed down...?

[fighthefutureofhd]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Aside from what the mass market supposedly doesn't care about, movie studios are still sensitive to bad press regarding their home video product. They also want to outdo each other in regard to the quality of their releases.

If there was really some great threat Blu-ray would be "watered down" once it achieved mass market acceptance we would have already seen something similar take place with DVD years ago.

DVD never got watered down. The movie studios just ended up working harder to please a wider variety viewer demographic. They kept die hard tech-heads like myself happy by continuing to release original aspect ratio versions of the movie and delivering some really big special editions for certain high profile titles. They made separate pan and scan "fool screen" versions to make all the "unwashed" newbies to DVD happy too. They didn't force fool screen on everybody (or degrade the video by cramming widescreen and P&S versions on every disc).

Even when Blu-ray does achieve mass market success, the more technically educated enthusiasts who adopted Blu-ray early can influence a lot of buying decisions.

When DVD started really gaining momentum I had lots of friends asking me for advice on particular movie discs, players and other gear. I'm far from alone on seeing that happen. We affect word of mouth sales in a big way. Movie studios will cut corners at their peril. I just don't see how they're going to be able to do that.

i would disagree that dvd's never got watered down. there are many, many $5 dvd's out there that are crappy. not to mention the fact that there are some expensive dvd's (at the time anyway) that aren't great. speed 2 - cruise control is one of those. the sound's alright and the transfer's decent, but it's nothing really to write home about. there are a lot of dvd's out there that are pretty crappy. it sells cheaper and that's what a lot of the mass market consumers like. i'm not sure blu-ray will go this route, but it is something to think about. just about everything made has a crappy version out there.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

i would disagree that dvd's never got watered down. there are many, many $5 dvd's out there that are crappy. not to mention the fact that there are some expensive dvd's (at the time anyway) that aren't great. speed 2 - cruise control is one of those. the sound's alright and the transfer's decent, but it's nothing really to write home about. there are a lot of dvd's out there that are pretty crappy. it sells cheaper and that's what a lot of the mass market consumers like. i'm not sure blu-ray will go this route, but it is something to think about. just about everything made has a crappy version out there.

Maybe the price was driven down by lack of demand due to the crappy transfer That's the logic I'd follow on that example. I don't think they're intentionally pumping out bad transfers like "Speed 2" so they can sell it at a lower price...... The Film-Content itself is still the main selling point to many people, and the PQ/AQ/Extras/Case etc.. are just "bonuses" on varying levels.

[Luis_A51]

They still need to convince people its worth the extra cash over the dvd, especially when the dvd version of old movies sell for $5-$10

So I do think, for the most part, they will try to put out all movies with the best possible quality.

[mrgone313]

Beside higher quality video and audio what other motivator would there be for the average consumer (or us informed consumers for that matter) to purchase blu ray over sd dvd?? Why would I re buy Kill Bill vol 1 & 2 with the exact same special features (or lack thereof) if the picture quality wasn't notably improved. This is the sole reason for anyone to trade in their old dvd player for a shiny new blu ray disc player. When dvd came out there were many obvious reasons people wanted to upgrade: no rewinding tapes, special features, etc...The ENTIRE selling point for BD is great PQ and AQ...period. Don't try and tell me people are gonna upgrade to blu ray just for BD-LIVE either! There's no way the studios would slack off on delivering quality transfers. No way.

[Barnum]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

most consumers don't really care about quality though. don't you think they might win out over those who do care about quality? certainly those who do care are not near as big in numbers as those who don't. i worry that they will dictate how future blu-ray releases will look and sound like. studios may start sacrificing quality for the almighty dollar.

You figured out how business works. You cater to the majority not the minority. The studios will do what they can get away with an nothing more. They want to maximize revenue and not including options is the way to do it. For the most part people are cheap so they will buy what is cheap. Guess that explains the popularity of the 5 bins at Walmart. I don't step foot in that store because of they are doing to this country. But that is an other topic all together.

[Bobby Henderson]

The analogy of those $5 DVDs at Wal-Mart is leaving out some very crucial information.

1. None of those movies are new releases. They're all old, catalog titles taking up too much space in various warehouses.

2. Many of those movies in the $5 bins are crap in one way or the other. Some, like The Thin Red Line were critical successes but box office failures. And then there's a lot of others that are just plain terrible movies.

Of all the movies you find in the $5 Wal-Mart DVD bins, many of them did have good video transfers, decent extras, etc and commanded $20 price tags when they were new releases. They're in the $5 bin for reasons other than studios skimping on video transfer quality.

[STARSCREAM]

I don't think so. For one people are really picky now on audio/video transfers and if they start half assing it then people will be all over them! Just look at what happens on forums when a title is released with DNR applied for example, they are out for blood. Also, the sudios WANT Blu-ray to survive and take over for dvd sales as the dvd sales market has become stagnant for them and they need a new source to distribute for more means of cash flow.

[Bluepers]

I don't know exactly what you mean by dumbed down, are they/can they be fast foody? yes, dumbed down no. If anything one would expect them to get better as the studio engineers and hardware manufacturers learn more about the format and the rush cools. That's what we should rightfully expect, big entertainment companies don't always follow. That they got Blade Runner right says something.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Wow this topic was grave dug it's over 2 1/2 years old.

[greg_achen]

Originally Posted by Barnum

You figured out how business works. You cater to the majority not the minority. The studios will do what they can get away with an nothing more. They want to maximize revenue and not including options is the way to do it. For the most part people are cheap so they will buy what is cheap. Guess that explains the popularity of the 5 bins at Walmart. I don't step foot in that store because of they are doing to this country. But that is an other topic all together.

That's not entirely true. Businesses cater to whomever is going to give them the most profit. If that minority has deep pockets and is willing to purchase what they want at a higher price, businesses WILL cater to the minority. It's called a niche market and if niche markets weren't profitable, Wal-Mart would have taken over the world by now.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

DNR has not been a major problem outside of a few specific catalog titles. The only concern I would have is that some studios are reusing older HD masters for their BD catalog releases that simply don't hold up in 1080P resolution. Another concern I have is that some studios will incessantly keep adding BD-Java to releases that starts to negatively impact audio and video quality.

I'm more concerned with the constant FW updates that the BD-Java has smacked us with. I have no problem with the updates themselves, but after a player reaches a certain age, companies stop posting updates and running certain new BDs becomes impossible.

This was never a problem with DVD players.

[Bluepers]

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

Wow this topic was grave dug it's over 2 1/2 years old.

Well I came across it as a "related thread" of a search I did concerning the better Blu-ray transfers available. Most topics (unless it is very time specific) on a forum are no less relevant now as they were then. Some of my other forums have threads run for years, and after that they are are archived and still provided to readers. Here I posted to an old thread about DVD versus Bluray PQ and just as it was getting interesting the thread was mysteriously shut down.
Over at some of the other forums they get mad if you post a new topic that was already covered in older threads. I found the older threads here with the search engine and had no second thought about posting. Maybe we can have fun with the topic "in hindsight", has anything changed, are transfers more uniform now? Will Bluray catch on with the masses?

[bkbluray]

Originally Posted by Bluepers

Well I came across it as a "related thread" of a search I did concerning the better Blu-ray transfers available. Most topics (unless it is very time specific) on a forum are no less relevant now as they were then. Some of my other forums have threads run for years, and after that they are are archived and still provided to readers. Here I posted to an old thread about DVD versus Bluray PQ and just as it was getting interesting the thread was mysteriously shut down.
Over at some of the other forums they get mad if you post a new topic that was already covered in older threads. I found the older threads here with the search engine and had no second thought about posting. Maybe we can have fun with the topic "in hindsight", has anything changed, are transfers more uniform now? Will Bluray catch on with the masses?

Good point. I think Blu-ray is definitely catching on like wildfire, as evidenced by the insanely cheap DVD prices. Retailers have a hard time giving those things away anymore

There are some studios who don't really make the effort with their transfers (Universal with their catalogue titles as of late), but for the most part, studios at least can do a good transfer when they want to.

[Zero_Cool]

My copy of 28 days later looks like crap. I want to say it was worse that watching a dvd play. I don't know what they did.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Zero_Cool

My copy of 28 days later looks like crap. I want to say it was worse that watching a dvd play. I don't know what they did.

...they filmed it with SD cameras.

[Zero_Cool]

Originally Posted by 42041

...they filmed it with SD cameras.

So they blu-ray brings out the crappy image.

[Strevlac]

Originally Posted by 42041

...they filmed it with SD cameras.

What I don't understand is: why are people just now noticing it looks like crap? It's looked like crap for 15 years. It was obviously filmed on prosumer (consumer?) video cameras on day 1. I dunno how anyone wouldn't notice that.

[saginawjuggalo]

Originally Posted by bajor27

Although Universal did this for HD-DVD, I don't think it will happen for Blu. There is too much competition now for them to release a ton of titles with poor video quality.

I don't know if it's 'dumbining down' but I am extremely worried about excessive DNR on catalog releases. Not so they can pump them out though. Just so that the J6P doesn't complain about grain.

Universal Studios is still to this very day preceding with half-ass "careless" rush jobs on Blu-ray. Universal believes DNR/EE are improvements to poor prints.


Edit: I'm sure you this by now... Necro-threading from 2008

[dickdarlington]

Originally Posted by Zero_Cool

So they blu-ray brings out the crappy image.

28 Days Later was shot with the Canon XL-1 (IIRC) which are miniDV cameras that max out at 480p. If Danny Boyle (or Fox Searchlight) still have the original video negatives for the film, nobody knows. Boyle's preference is to have the video copies of the film to come from the film negative that give it its ultra-grainy look.

For the fact that the picture quality, let's face it, sucks, I'm surprised the Blu-ray looks as good as it does.

28 Weeks Later at least got an upgrade. Went from miniDV cameras to 16mm film...

Anyway, back on topic, I feel that Blu-ray has been making strides in the past few months/years with the exception of releases coming from Universal. Ugh.

[Al_The_Strange]

When DVDs first came out, they had a lot of scummy non-anamorphic (or possibly just fullscreen) transfers. Dirt, grain, low-res, speckled, dull colors, probably lots of EE... Over the years they got better, and DVDs today looks like they're processed to hold the best possible quality.

I think Blu-Rays are going through the same trend. Now that the technology is more familiar, quality will get better. There have been a few DNRed movies, but I think there are less being released now than there were before (and with "Gladiator," the studio was quick to rectify and replace/exchange those discs). Some movies are already getting double-dipped for stronger transfers (like "Memento"). By the end of Blu-Ray's lifetime, we might look back on today's BDs and say "wow, these older ones really sucked!"