Why is the image so jerky?

[Mermen79]

I have a Samsung LNT4661F that I bought brand new. This isn't a technical problem cos it's been like that since I first started it. The jerkiness happens when I watch BD's and the camera is panning. It looks really bad, like the frame rate drops to 16 or so. Everything else is fine.

I'm not so smart when it comes to HDTV's but can someone help me out? I think I've read about this problem before. Does it have to do with the fact that it is NOT 120hz?

[JasonR]

Mine isn't 120hz and it doesn't do that?

[Mermen79]

Well, what are you settings? Do you understand what I mean when I describe it? The motion during the panning is not smooth at all. It's pretty bad and you can easily notice jerkiness. Does it have anything to do with 24fps and the 60hz of the television?

If you have any 24fps BD, just pay attention to the panning. Is it smooth or very jittery?

[JasonR]

Mine is very smooth, but it is a Sony. So, I don't know if my calibration settings will help you...

Have you calibrated your TV? That is a good starting point.

[lexm]

Yes, it has to do with the 24 fps movie converted to a 60 fps display.

All movies are shot at 24 fps where tv bradcast is shot at 60 fps. Thats why you are going to notice it on movies and not tv broadcast.

Its actually nothing to do with blu ray discs. I've noticed it on standard definition dvds. Two examples are Master and Comander, when the ship is panning through the screen from right to left. Another exaple is in Spiderman 2 at the opening credits.

I'm actually surprised you are seeing it on an LCD screen. The jerky effect is very noticeable on dlps, but since LCDs have pixels with very slow refresh rates, it should not be as noticeable.

I think the only way to get rid of it is getting a display capable of slowing down to 24 fps.

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by lexm

Yes, it has to do with the 24 fps movie converted to a 60 fps display.

All movies are shot at 24 fps where tv bradcast is shot at 60 fps. Thats why you are going to notice it on movies and not tv broadcast.

Its actually nothing to do with blu ray discs. I've noticed it on standard definition dvds. Two examples are Master and Comander, when the ship is panning through the screen from right to left. Another exaple is in Spiderman 2 at the opening credits.

I'm actually surprised you are seeing it on an LCD screen. The jerky effect is very noticeable on dlps, but since LCDs have pixels with very slow refresh rates, it should not be as noticeable.

I think the only way to get rid of it is getting a display capable of slowing down to 24 fps.

Again, I have never noticed this and I don't have 24 fps. I think most BDP owners would agree...

[Mermen79]

Hmm.... I thought my model was pretty good. I mean, Samsung is a good quality, right? It wasn't cheap...

shame about that though. It looks so bad sometimes. I really wish I was rich enough to buy the 120HZ models. The movements there are very smooth.

[Toptube]

its probably just a case of that particular model of TV doing a really bad job of framerate conversion. that tv MAY actually have a 100hz mode, and if it does it might be turned on by default. Most 100hz implementations were poorly regarded by reviewers and many of them suggested leaving it off. you should reasearch your tv a bit and see if this is the case.

edit**
checkout this thread at the avsforums. it appears there have been a few firmware updates for that tv that you can download and install. it may fix your problems. the tv is known to have digital handshake problems with all sorts of devices over HDMI.

[Mermen79]

Originally Posted by Toptube

its probably just a case of that particular model of TV doing a really bad job of framerate conversion. that tv MAY actually have a 100hz mode, and if it does it might be turned on by default. Most 100hz implementations were poorly regarded by reviewers and many of them suggested leaving it off. you should reasearch your tv a bit and see if this is the case.

edit**
checkout this thread at the avsforums. it appears there have been a few firmware updates for that tv that you can download and install. it may fix your problems. the tv is known to have digital handshake problems with all sorts of devices over HDMI.

Thank you for the link and information. I appreciate it.
Update: I can't seem to get the firmware to work. I have the folder in a USB drive with nothing else on it but the television says "no file to update." Has nothing official been released by Samsung? Their website doesn't have anything for it.

[Toptube]

these are the directions that were in that thread:

Instructions:

1.) Download the file.
2.) Use Winzip or Winrar to extract the enclosed file to your desktop or folder of your choice.
3.) Copy the extracted folder (called "Tulip") to a FAT32-formatted USB memory stick. You should then have a formatted USB memory stick with the Tulip folder in there.
4.) Turn your TV on.
5.) Plug the memory stick into your TV
6.) Go to the SETUP menu and run the update procedure.

**NOTE** Some larger-sized USB sticks (over 1GB) apparently need more power than the TV can give it. If it's not working with one type of USB drive, try another!

-------------

I'd say reformat your usb drive and make sure its fat32. make sure the file is in the folder that it extracts as being in (not sure if its called "Tulip" for every firmware version)

[intestinalbloodmummy]

Lcd`s and plasma`s cant keep up anyway! dlp all the way

[Papi4baby]

Originally Posted by intestinalbloodmummy

Lcd`s and plasma`s cant keep up anyway! dlp all the way

LOL, ok.

Is probably the TV is doing a bad job with 3:2 pulldown, some TV's are just not that good at it. Did you try to turn off 24Hz on the PS3 menu see if that helps?

I think the the movie is on 24Hz the pull down is different, i know for the new 120Hz sets is 5:5. The FW might fix the issue. Also contact Sammy, might have a defective set.

[bkbluray]

Originally Posted by djepic112

I have a Samsung LNT4661F that I bought brand new. This isn't a technical problem cos it's been like that since I first started it. The jerkiness happens when I watch BD's and the camera is panning. It looks really bad, like the frame rate drops to 16 or so. Everything else is fine.

I'm not so smart when it comes to HDTV's but can someone help me out? I think I've read about this problem before. Does it have to do with the fact that it is NOT 120hz?

I had the same problem on my Samsung 4053 LCD TV (also not 120 hz). I turned the "sharpness" picture setting down to 10. It's leagues better than it was. Motion is much smoother now.

[Mermen79]

Originally Posted by bkbluray

I had the same problem on my Samsung 4053 LCD TV (also not 120 hz). I turned the "sharpness" picture setting down to 10. It's leagues better than it was. Motion is much smoother now.

Thank you everyone. I'll try this. I usually don't have the sharpness on that high but I'll check.

Also, I'm using a mac so I wonder if that affects why the tv can't read the file. I'll try it on a PC sometime. Kind of annoying!

[NutsAboutPS3]

I have a Samsung LCD that does support 24Hz and I still get jerky/flickery movement on some panning shots. Many shots are silky smooth, it's only some that have the jerkiness.

It supports 120Hz as well, and that can eliminate the jerkiness, but then it doesn't look like film any more, which I find more offputting than the jerkiness to be honest, so I leave it turned off.

[Mermen79]

Originally Posted by NutsAboutPS3

I have a Samsung LCD that does support 24Hz and I still get jerky/flickery movement on some panning shots. Many shots are silky smooth, it's only some that have the jerkiness.

It supports 120Hz as well, and that can eliminate the jerkiness, but then it doesn't look like film any more, which I find more offputting than the jerkiness to be honest, so I leave it turned off.

I tried the sharpness thing and it didn't help. Oh well. You're samsung supports 120hz but you don't use it? You're right, it doesn't look like what we're use to for film but isn't that great? I love how it looks. It's so smooth. I don't really understand how it works. It looks like it has more frames but how is that possible?

[NutsAboutPS3]

Originally Posted by djepic112

I tried the sharpness thing and it didn't help. Oh well. You're samsung supports 120hz but you don't use it? You're right, it doesn't look like what we're use to for film but isn't that great? I love how it looks. It's so smooth. I don't really understand how it works. It looks like it has more frames but how is that possible?

It is very clever, I was amazed at how well it works when I tried it. What it does is it analyses the content of the frames to identify moving elements so it can form extra frames in between. E.g. imagine a ball moving across the screen, the ball is in one place one frame, then has moved along a bit for the next frame. It doesn't just blend the two images together to form one with a blurry ball in two places, instead it makes a whole new frame with a clear image of a ball between the two positions. So it really does have more frames when you use this feature.

I can see that some people might like it, and perhaps I would get used to it, but I found it made movies look "cheap" to me, like a camcorder soap opera.

[Deciazulado]

24 frames per second strobing. Watch closely on pans in a theater and you'll see it there too:

http://www.go-rd.com/pages/giof4.html

[Mermen79]

Originally Posted by NutsAboutPS3

It is very clever, I was amazed at how well it works when I tried it. What it does is it analyses the content of the frames to identify moving elements so it can form extra frames in between. E.g. imagine a ball moving across the screen, the ball is in one place one frame, then has moved along a bit for the next frame. It doesn't just blend the two images together to form one with a blurry ball in two places, instead it makes a whole new frame with a clear image of a ball between the two positions. So it really does have more frames when you use this feature.

I can see that some people might like it, and perhaps I would get used to it, but I found it made movies look "cheap" to me, like a camcorder soap opera.

Wait, how can it just generate an completely new image? I understand a ball on a white screen cos that's simple, but a scene with people and backgrounds?

[MaleManGuy]

Originally Posted by djepic112

Wait, how can it just generate an completely new image? I understand a ball on a white screen cos that's simple, but a scene with people and backgrounds?

What is your video source? I assume it doesn't do it on cable, DVD or anything else? Just BD? What player do you have? I doubt it is a 120hz or 24f/60f problem. I've seen this before in retail stores... I don't think it's the TV.