LOR to be coming out soon on HD DVD, or is it for BD?

[Blubaru]

If LOTR is coming out on both someone should email Amazon and tell them to put the Blu-ray version up for presale also.

[Fr0stiE]

I really don't understand how you can flame the HD-DVD format, or Toshiba as a signature in a message having absolutely nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with a release date for LoTR. From what I've gathered online, LoTR will be released on the new disk type dialed as the Total-HD disk (a format playable on both Blu-ray & HD-Dvd players.) If Amazon is doing pre-sales on this movie, it's probably a mistake on Amazon's part (like so many other games/movies beforehand.) [The reason I only pre-order things from retailers that have a physical storefront.]

Note: Have you attempted to ask Amazon about the sales post yourself, or do you rely on others to do these things for you (like Sony

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Fr0stiE

I really don't understand how you can flame the HD-DVD format, or Toshiba as a signature in a message having absolutely nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with a release date for LoTR. From what I've gathered online, LoTR will be released on the new disk type dialed as the Total-HD disk (a format playable on both Blu-ray & HD-Dvd players.) If Amazon is doing pre-sales on this movie, it's probably a mistake on Amazon's part (like so many other games/movies beforehand.) [The reason I only pre-order things from retailers that have a physical storefront.]

Note: Have you attempted to ask Amazon about the sales post yourself, or do you rely on others to do these things for you (like Sony

Impressive first post!

[Fr0stiE]

Yes it was my first post... ty for the nice response. BTW - I own PS3 and HD-Dvd player (X-Box 360) so I really have no preference for the hd players or formats really. In my personal opinion... neither format will win in the end, since everyone is making dual-hd players (LG has a nice one - $1,199 too much for me) This new disc format (True-HD) sounds consumer/studio friendly in that it doesn't favor either player. Hopefully, the cost of this disk sits with HD-Dvd pricing or lower, since most people (not HD enthusiasts) can hardly justify the $5 average increase (HD-Dvd) let alone the $10 to $15 increase (Blu-Ray) per disk. [And these disks aren't even dual-format i.e. 480p on one side for standard players & HD on the reverse...]

[theknub]

frostie, only one company is making a dual hd player. i wouldn't call it a nice player though especially since it is made by lg. even then, the player is hd-dvd crippled. so, it is not even a fully functional player.

as for true-hd, there is virtually no way it can be made to be the same price as current hd-dvd. you essentially have to take what you can produce from BR and their failur rate, take what hd-dvd produces and their failure rate, and then whatever is lost when gluing the two pieces together. the end story is that it'll cost more and we'll have to pay for it.


edit: their is a thread on here discussing true hd and the general hatred of it.

[Blubaru]

I have no interest in LOTR. I was only suggesting the idea.

Something tells me that this is a little more than a glitch on Amazons part. They will probably play it off as a mistake like the way Toshiba did with Jaws and Jurassic Park.

Amazon is still HD-DVD biased so it wouldn’t surprise me if these titles were posted up in an attempt to generate some needed hype for HD-DVD.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by theknub

no release date announced by anyone but there is something up on amazon? ... makes sense... until something is announced, i have trouble believing it.

That place holder has been there for eons, probably since Frodo's people started being taller It's supposed to be there to gather people's demand for a product or something. From time to time someone who hadn't seen it before finds it and and gets (understandably) excited. (I think the last time before this one I saw it mentioned was last year on another forum)

What really worries me at night is how are they gonna compress LOR and will it look as good as the Aragorn piccie or much worse.

[theknub]

it better look as good or better than your aragorn pic

[Fr0stiE]

theknub only one company is making a dual hd player. i wouldn't call it a nice player though especially since it is made by lg. even then, the player is hd-dvd crippled. so, it is not even a fully functional player.

Actually, LG isn't the only company planning on releasing the dual format player. Though it may be the first company to announce a functioning prototype. (Aside from RICOH media who was the first to make an optic laser with the ability to read both formats...) I really feel that a dual player is a great way for hardware manufacturers to earn money, and will more likely than not yield the most sales. When you consider the Sony BD is at $1000 and a dual format player is only $200 more, I would think that the versatility of the LG player would be more appealing to the average consumer. As only people with money to burn will purchase an individual player for each format. <--- My opinion.

As for the True-HD dvd format... I honestly didn't know anything about that until I responded to this post, which just goes to show how much time Blubaru spent checking on the release format New Line is planning on using for this series in particular. This doesn't mean that the media format will ever come about, I just think that it's a good idea. As for the cost of the media, as long as a R&D team can produce a media type playable on both players... Consumers will win overall, in that it must be cheaper to produce a movie on one format than it would be to make one for each individual standard. If you think about it... a studio using this media type won't have to worry about making more of one format than the other (in which case they would save money) instead they would be able to produce a single [multi player] version. (Which couldn't cost more than a blu-ray no matter how you cut it.)

I don't know how this would effect the quality of the data stored on disc, but that's for the R&D teams to figure out not me.

[Deciazulado]

mmm.. one could argue: when you consider Sony BD players starts at $499 and a dual format player is only $700 more...



but this is what matters to me!:

Originally Posted by Fr0stiE

If you think about it... a studio using this media type won't have to worry about making more of one format than the other (in which case they would save money) instead they would be able to produce a single [multi player] version. (Which couldn't cost more than a blu-ray no matter how you cut it.)

I don't know how this would effect the quality of the data stored on disc, but that's for the R&D teams to figure out not me.

As i said before:

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Mmmm what could be really stupid is, that they put Return Of The King compressed to fit the video into 30GBs, then port THAT, into the 50GB Blu-layers, and then we have a 4+ hour movie image compressed to 20GB inside a 80GB disc

Originally Posted by theknub

it better look as good or better than your aragorn pic

theknub: I think it would be kind of difficult to make the pic better
Maybe erase grain digitally? Or make the picture softer?

[Fr0stiE]

Stores in California are selling the Sony BD player for $1000, not $500. Which is why I said the $200 difference is feasible to attain the ability to use both formats. You're absolutely right about the release of LoTR needing to be uncompressed in order for any justice to be given this title. It would be nice to see a 2 disc version like they did with the EE version of this film series. Then again I don't know that I'd be willing to poor out $50 - $60 for a movie either.

[bluearth]

I'm not buying this. Total HD? Just another reason why HD-DVD needs to die.

Fast.

[GTP]

Originally Posted by Fr0stiE

Stores in California are selling the Sony BD player for $1000, not $500. Which is why I said the $200 difference is feasible to attain the ability to use both formats. You're absolutely right about the release of LoTR needing to be uncompressed in order for any justice to be given this title. It would be nice to see a 2 disc version like they did with the EE version of this film series. Then again I don't know that I'd be willing to poor out $50 - $60 for a movie either.

Yes...but the 20gb PS3 is selling for 500.00...and its a better player than the Sony stand alone with regards to future upgrades..audio ect.
There are far more people buying the PS3 as a BD player..than the Sony stand alone= 700.00 more for a player with partial hd dvd playback from a company with zero credibilty for players.

This combo player does not seem to be selling well at all....and the other stand alone hd dvd players have far too many freeze ups and glitches with seemingly no fix.
Thats mostly why I no longer support hd dvd at all....and wish it a quick death.

THD will never be a hit at the prices they are likely to sell for...which would be more than current hd dvd combo pricing.

[GTP]

Originally Posted by bluearth

I'm not buying this. Total HD? Just another reason why HD-DVD needs to die.

Fast.

Exactly right....just say no to THD.

[Fr0stiE]

Bluearth - I'm not buying this. Total HD? Just another reason why HD-DVD needs to die.

Fast.

Sounds like a fanboy to me I could easily say the same about Blu-ray... Maybe little quips and comments like this need some intellect behind them for support. BTW - Sony and Toshiba went at this format war with VHS and Beta-Max back in the 80's.

What's wrong with the idea behind the Total-HD format. I personally don't care as I own both player types (PS3 & 360-HD) I've even heard about how there are multiple layers to be and codec support etc... Does this really matter so long as the movie you own looks and sounds as good as it did when you first paid $5.50 matinee. If anything is true about the format war, it's that the movies are as cheap as they can be for what they are, and the technology behind their making is affordable because if it.

I remember when I was 14 and Gremlins 2 along with Dick Tracy first came to VHS (back when Video Stores had movies 1 - 2 weeks before storefront launch...) These movies apparently cost $40 to $60 each because VHS was the only format. Then Dvd started gaining momentum and VHS dropped to $5 to $15 a title. Dvd's cost about $20 to $30 and laser disc (the big record size deals) averaged $40 to $80.

Wouldn't it be nice if those big record like discs came back in Blu-ray/HD dvd form??? I wonder how much information a double layer disc like that could hold - just kidding.

Anyway you look at it the HD Dvd camp has The Nichi Corporation, who holds the design patents to the Blu-ray’s laser system & sits as an associate member of the HD DVD Promotion Group.

Sony has Disney spouting BLUE at the beginning of their current movie releases such as Invincible...

Let the games begin LOL

[Fr0stiE]

GTP -

You are perfectly correct. After I posted my response I figured the PS3 was the $500 player that was brought to light. I own both the PS3 (60g) and the 360-HD so I can agree with this entirely. Why not own a game system that offers you everything a stand alone has and much more for about half the cost.

This is why the format war doesn't bother me so much. I just wish I didn't have to spend $5 an average more for a HD movie, just because it's on a particular format.

I think that uncompressed audio (PCM) is the way to go. So far I like it better than the True HD formats.

As for the T-HD format, this will most likely never come about but it's nice to know that major studios are thinking of ways to add waves to the already stormy waters.

[Blubaru]

Originally Posted by Fr0stiE

Bluearth - I'm not buying this. Total HD? Just another reason why HD-DVD needs to die.

Fast.

Sounds like a fanboy to me I could easily say the same about Blu-ray... Maybe little quips and comments like this need some intellect behind them for support. BTW - Sony and Toshiba went at this format war with VHS and Beta-Max back in the 80's.

What's wrong with the idea behind the Total-HD format. I personally don't care as I own both player types (PS3 & 360-HD) I've even heard about how there are multiple layers to be and codec support etc... Does this really matter so long as the movie you own looks and sounds as good as it did when you first paid $5.50 matinee. If anything is true about the format war, it's that the movies are as cheap as they can be for what they are, and the technology behind their making is affordable because if it.

I remember when I was 14 and Gremlins 2 along with Dick Tracy first came to VHS (back when Video Stores had movies 1 - 2 weeks before storefront launch...) These movies apparently cost $40 to $60 each because VHS was the only format. Then Dvd started gaining momentum and VHS dropped to $5 to $15 a title. Dvd's cost about $20 to $30 and laser disc (the big record size deals) averaged $40 to $80.

Wouldn't it be nice if those big record like discs came back in Blu-ray/HD dvd form??? I wonder how much information a double layer disc like that could hold - just kidding.

Anyway you look at it the HD Dvd camp has The Nichi Corporation, who holds the design patents to the Blu-ray’s laser system & sits as an associate member of the HD DVD Promotion Group.

Sony has Disney spouting BLUE at the beginning of their current movie releases such as Invincible...

Let the games begin LOL

Go back to AVS! THD is some of the worst technology envisioned in the last couple of years.

THD cripples the Blu-ray experience and puts it equal to the inferior technology of HD-DVD.

Why should Blu-ray buyers have to suffer because some idiots at Toshiba did a half-baked job in designing HD-DVD?

It's not that it would be impossible to put a larger side for Blu-ray but the only thing WB is concerned with is HD-DVD fanboy feelings.

They would be up in arms if WB came out with a THD disk and the Blu-ray side was bigger than the HD-DVD side. How dare the BDA come out with superior technology and capacity!!

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by Fr0stiE

If you think about it... a studio using this media type won't have to worry about making more of one format than the other (in which case they would save money) instead they would be able to produce a single [multi player] version. (Which couldn't cost more than a blu-ray no matter how you cut it.)

I don't know how this would effect the quality of the data stored on disc, but that's for the R&D teams to figure out not me.

This is precisely why I don't believe I'd ever buy a THD disk.

With regard to the LOTR ROTK... if you do some very, very simple arithmetic (multiply two numbers then divide that one into a third, done) it turns out that even if you assume there is absolutely no overhead or disk space associated with necessities like menus, etc. then to fit this film on a 30 GB disk you have to compress the film to an absolute maximum of 16 Mbps for the TOTAL stream -- video and sound. If you look at Benes' great thread (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338) you'll notice that no movie he's listed so far has a 16 Mbps (or less) total stream. Those that come even close don't have the best sound available. Thus I'd expect both crap video and crap sound if the LOTR ROTK has to be compressed to fit into 30 GB so the same stream can fit on both a HD DVD side (or disk) and a Blu-ray side (or disk).

As for putting this on a two disk set... WHY? With Blu-ray you don't have to. The movie was not thought put forth by the director with an intermission (unlike the epics of my mispent youth). Why should I be forced to have an "intermission" when I have to change disks?

There's a reason Blu-ray has an extra 20 GB. They can use it to give great video and great sound when they need to.