The Official Premier Acoustics Owners thread

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by jaejw1

its nice to see new owners on here.... just wait til you get the nerve to buy a second one... then you will really be blown away..

SHUT your mouth...

[Rubicon]

Originally Posted by jaejw1

its nice to see new owners on here.... just wait til you get the nerve to buy a second one... then you will really be blown away..

Heh heh. Once I get my gear where I want it I'll be able to gauge if I need another one.

Do you have yours daisy-chained, or do you have 7.2? And if one does daisy-chain, does that diminish the quality of the signal any?

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Heh heh. Once I get my gear where I want it I'll be able to gauge if I need another one.

Do you have yours daisy-chained, or do you have 7.2? And if one does daisy-chain, does that diminish the quality of the signal any?

i have it split at the rcvr,,, i thought i wouldnt need the second one.. but once i plugged it in and powered it up... i had to turn the adjustment down.. it plays just as loud.. but can play even louder and play deeper.. and the adjustments arent as high as with a sngle sub..

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Heh heh. Once I get my gear where I want it I'll be able to gauge if I need another one. Do you have yours daisy-chained, or do you have 7.2? And if one does daisy-chain, does that diminish the quality of the signal any?

Originally Posted by jaejw1

i have it split at the rcvr - I thought i wouldnt need the second one.. but once i plugged it in and powered it up... i had to turn the adjustment down.. it plays just as loud.. but can play even louder and play deeper.. and the adjustments arent as high as with a sngle sub..

I also have it split at the AVR, the PA-120 is my Main (Front) Sub with a Polk PSW-10 as my 2nd sub. No issues with the quality of the signals at all. I sometimes "think" about adding a 2nd PA-120 myself, but that's not anything i'm in a rush to do. Everything sounds Great now & it may make it sound better, prob. will, but at some point it might be overkill in my small 11x13' room.

[Rubicon]

Originally Posted by jaejw1

i have it split at the rcvr,,, i thought i wouldnt need the second one.. but once i plugged it in and powered it up... i had to turn the adjustment down.. it plays just as loud.. but can play even louder and play deeper.. and the adjustments arent as high as with a sngle sub..

I'll keep that in mind if I get a second sub.

Originally Posted by Aerodude73

I also have it split at the AVR, the PA-120 is my Main (Front) Sub with a Polk PSW-10 as my 2nd sub. No issues with the quality of the signals at all. I sometimes "think" about adding a 2nd PA-120 myself, but that's not anything i'm in a rush to do. Everything sounds Great now & it may make it sound better, prob. will, but at some point it might be overkill in my small 11x13' room.

You're right, I'm sure mine will sound great. But it sure is hard knowing there is something out there that could make it sound (even minimally) better! Baby steps...

[jaejw1]

Originally Posted by Aerodude73

I also have it split at the AVR, the PA-120 is my Main (Front) Sub with a Polk PSW-10 as my 2nd sub. No issues with the quality of the signals at all. I sometimes "think" about adding a 2nd PA-120 myself, but that's not anything i'm in a rush to do. Everything sounds Great now & it may make it sound better, prob. will, but at some point it might be overkill in my small 11x13' room.

i had to do it... my room is way too large for a single.. and i was getting bad room modes.. the second one flattened everything out.. and im enjoying it.. no complaints whatsoever... and the sound quality is much better..

[Eduard]

Originally Posted by Aerodude73

Phase: 0, Crossover: All the way up, Volume: 5 (1/2 way up).

How about the setting in you receiver (LPF of LFE)?

[duneaholic]

120 is what most people set it at.

[Eduard]

Originally Posted by duneaholic

120 is what most people set it at.

Cool... I just want to make sure I got it right. Thanks!

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by duneaholic

120 is what most people set it at.

Yes, 120 is where I have it also.

[DonRSD]

Originally Posted by duneaholic

120 is what most people set it at.

Originally Posted by Eduard

Cool... I just want to make sure I got it right. Thanks!

120hz is too high

set it @ 80hz and hear the difference

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Eduard

How about the setting in you receiver (LPF of LFE)?

The following are 2 posts that explains in good detail on the 80Hz and 120Hz settings....

From StimpsonJCat

On most AVRs today each speaker has a crossover. What ever is above the crossover is sent through the speaker and what is below is sent to the sub. This has nothing to do with the LFE channel (.1 channel). The LPF of LFE setting will limit the LFE up to the setting. So if you have it set at 120 Hz it will send the information up to that (120 Hz is really as high a frequency as you will ever see in the LFE track). By setting it to 80 Hz you are limiting it to 80 Hz. The information on the LFE track that is higher than 80 Hz is lost. Keep in mind the LFE track is only going to the sub (in most setups).

Remember we are only talking about the LFE (.1) channel with the LPF.
The LFE information over 80 Hz has nowhere but the sub to go to. If your sub can't handle 120 Hz then you shouldn't set it that high. But if it can (mine goes up to 180 Hz) then you should set it at 120 Hz (As long as it doesn't localize the sub).

If your AVR has a LPF of LFE it should be set to 120 Hz (as long as it doesn't localize the sub). And the crossover dial on the sub should be set as high as possible or switched off if possible. This allows the AVR to do all the bass management which with current AVRs is the way to go. The LPF of LFE is a low pass for the LFE channel and you will lose the sound from 80Hz to 120 Hz for the LFE if you have it set to 80 Hz This is different than the crossovers for the speakers. But you lose the the LFE info from 80 Hz - 120 Hz with that setting. If the subs are located in the front near the mains you shouldn't have any trouble with sub localiztion.

From Big Daddy....

There are several things to remember:
1. The 80Hz recommendation by THX goes back to dinosaur (Dolby Pro Logic) years and apply to THX certified speakers. Those speakers were required to have this crossover. It is not a magic and blind recommendation that applies to all speakers.
2. You can say that the Low Pass Filters (LPF) inside the modern receivers have made the crossovers on the back of the subwoofers obsolete. That is why we normally turn them all the way up to their maximum point and set its value in the receiver. The crossovers on the subs are still usefull if you are using a 2.1 setup with vintage audio preamps.
3. For the same reason, we can say that the High Pass Filters (HPF) inside the more advanced receivers have made the low pass filter obsolete. That is why we normally set its value to 120Hz. If your receiver does not allow to set the high pass filters of the individual speakers, then setting the LPF to 80Hz may not be a bad idea.
4. It is important that people distinguish between LFE and what goes to a subwoofer. The LFE is a production channel, whereas the subwoofer is a playback channel. The sound engineers determine what goes to the LFE, and the users of the home-theater system determine what ends up coming out of the subwoofer.
5. We cannot localize the sound above 80Hz. It has to go much above 100Hz before we are able to localize it.

Sub bass above the 80Hz mark

Admittedly any bass content in the sub above 80Hz or so could make the sub 'localizable' to the listener, but it remains a fact that DOlby mixing spec allows inclusion of such frequencies in the LFE channel of x.1 mixes. Whether they are there or not in a particular DVD soundtrack's LFE channel, can only be determined by measurement or careful comparison.

Technically that is true, but THX studied a large number of actual movie LFE soundtracks and found very few used any of the 80-120 Hz range. As a practical matter, using an 80Hz crossover loses little or nothing of consequence, even though the LFE standard does provide for content as high as 120Hz. In part, that's why it has become the de facto standard crossover.

As for SACD's, I'll admit some strange things have been done there. However, I'm even more mystified by things like 5.0 pipe organ recordings than I am by the weird few that might have chosen to use a full range LFE. (How many people have main speakers that can reproduce a 16Hz note? Indeed, what percentage can actually reproduce 32Hz with authority? ) Of course any LFE above 120Hz would be lost on equipment that adheres to the 120Hz brick-wall LFE standard.

I tend to be more concerned by well intentioned users who throw away LFE content under 80Hz by selecting a crossover below that point, just because their main speakers can support it. As you say, this content is gone, and is not redirected anywhere, a loss that is more significant than anything that might be gained by a lower crossover.

[DonRSD]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

The following are 2 posts that explains in good detail on the 80Hz and 120Hz settings....
From StimpsonJCat
From Big Daddy....

who would set their LPF of LFE to 80hz and then set their fronts to 120hz and lose that 40hz range?? lol

set the LPF of LFE to 80hz then the fronts to 70hz

you dont miss ANY SOUND and dont have to worry about the high bass (george clooney voice for example) coming thru the subwoofer as his voice is around 100-105hz

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

who would set their LPF of LFE to 80hz and then set their fronts to 120hz and lose that 40hz range?? lol

set the LPF of LFE to 80hz then the fronts to 70hz

you dont miss ANY SOUND and dont have to worry about the high bass (george clooney voice for example) coming thru the subwoofer as his voice is around 100-105hz

Don, you are right, that would be an audio hole.

The George Clooney thing you refer is to a problem with localization of the sub, and acute to your scenario, thus you went from 120Hz down to 80Hz. It is impossible to say that one crossover standard is universal for all since you know how subs love to interect with the room's boundaries, thus effecting their performance. I think it is just easier to start 120Hz and work your way down if need be, than the other way around. This way you are starting with the complete LFE signal before making any adjustments.

[DonRSD]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

Don, you are right, that would be an audio hole.

The George Clooney thing you refer is to a problem with localization of the sub, and acute to your scenario, thus you went from 120Hz down to 80Hz. It is impossible to say that one crossover standard is universal for all since you know how subs love to interect with the room's boundaries, thus effecting their performance. I think it is just easier to start 120Hz and work your way down if need be, than the other way around. This way you are starting with the complete LFE signal before making any adjustments.

watch oceans 11 and listen to george clooneys voice coming out of your svs sub.......then get back to me

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

watch oceans 11 and listen to george clooneys voice coming out of your svs sub.......then get back to me

I have used some test discs (including Oceans 13) and never noticed any issue with his voice eminating from the sub. Unfortunately, comparing your set-up and equipment to mine is basically comparing apples to oranges.....there is no "right" answer.

[Eduard]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

From StimpsonJCat
From Big Daddy....

Thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by DonRSD

set the LPF of LFE to 80hz then the fronts to 70hz
you dont miss ANY SOUND and dont have to worry about the high bass (george clooney voice for example) coming thru the subwoofer as his voice is around 100-105hz

I will try this and listen which one is better for my system.


This low frequency thing is so addicting! I think I need another pa-120
BTW I will receive my SPL meter tomorrow.

[DonRSD]

Originally Posted by Eduard

Thanks for the info!




I will try this and listen which one is better for my system.


This low frequency thing is so addicting! I think I need another pa-120
BTW I will receive my SPL meter tomorrow.

awe man....the spl meter makes a HUUUUUUUGE DIFFERENCE!!!
i used to run audyssey on my onkyo to calibrate my system once a week.....the results were usually the same (around -/+1 db difference from the previous setting)

when i finally used my spl meter my rears were set at like -2 and the spl meter said to raise them to +4 though my fronts were basically dead on besides maybe a +1 or +2 db increase

remember to set all your speakers to 80db
set your sub to 83db (if you want some extra OOMPH)

besides my onkyo 806 & fxi3's, the spl meter was the best investment i made to my HT.....and it was only $50 bucks!!!

[Eduard]

Originally Posted by DonRSD

awe man....the spl meter makes a HUUUUUUUGE DIFFERENCE!!!
i used to run audyssey on my onkyo to calibrate my system once a week.....the results were usually the same (around -/+1 db difference from the previous setting)

when i finally used my spl meter my rears were set at like -2 and the spl meter said to raise them to +4 though my fronts were basically dead on besides maybe a +1 or +2 db increase

remember to set all your speakers to 80db
set your sub to 83db (if you want some extra OOMPH)

besides my onkyo 806 & fxi3's, the spl meter was the best investment i made to my HT.....and it was only $50 bucks!!!

Now I'm so exited!
I paid mine $25 on ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...EOIBSA:US:1123

[aramis109]

Nice find on the SPL meter. That's a steal. Make sure once you get it to read the stickies on using it.

As far as Oceans 13 or ANY dialog- I own the trilogy, I own both Batman movies, and both Transformers movies (all with deep voices). I've never experienced what Don is having come up. Only thing I can suggest for other folks is to start at 120hz so you aren't discarding any LFE information (sorry Don, but some of the LFE track can go up to 120hz and is only sent to the LFE output depending on the mix) and then experiment from there. The stickies are a good place to start as mentioned.