Damn X-Men 3 is Grainy. most scenes looks stunning but the grainy scenes damn

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by Travis

"Film grain
The grain of photographic film is a signal-dependent noise, related to shot noise.[11] That is, if film grains are uniformly distributed (equal number per area), and if each grain has an equal and independent probability of developing to a dark silver grain after absorbing photons, then the number of such dark grains in an area will be random with a binomial distribution; in areas where the probability is low, this distribution will be close to the classic Poisson distribution of shot noise; nevertheless a simple Gaussian distribution is often used as an accurate enough model.[7]

Film grain is usually regarded as a nearly isotropic (non-oriented) noise source, and is made worse by the distribution of silver halide grains in the film also being random." from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_noise

I know wikipedia is not a definitive source, but I believe many people feel grain is noise that is part of film. Grain has been discussed to death, it is up their with religion and politics now. Everyone seems to have very different views, like grain, hate grain, or don't care about graion, like believers, atheists, agnostics. Heavy Metal is noise to some people too, it's music to others. Can't account for taste.

Telling someone to educate themselves on what the find visually appealing or appalling is getting a little rude. I can take grain but I don't like it, I know what is it, but I still don't like it.

i don't think its rude at all,i think they should get educated.as i said before if you don't like grain the use the dnr setting on your tv.for the studios to cater to one group of people that hate grain isn't fair ether.lession 1.if you remove grain you lose detail,might as well ditch bd and stick to dvdif they can remove grain without losing detail i;m all for it.but it won't happen because they can't do it without losing detail.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

but for awhile the studios were listening to grain haters and it shows with patton and other titles.thanks to bill hunt and others its going the other way.i think in the future we may see less grain because of digital cameras and hd cameras will become common in hollywood.but even with hd you can add grain in post production.

ADD Grain!

Why would you add grain if its not there that would be untrue to the way it was shown in theaters.

Blu Rays should be the way it was shown in theaters. Always thought Blu Ray was supossed to be true to the source(hence what was shown in the theater)

[Travis]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

the thing is i never hear grain haters that saw a movie in the local movie house complain about grain,what up with that?

the other thing is you can't have detail with grain removed,they both have to be there. as a another poster said you have to get use to hd its a different animal.

I have mentioned before the first fight scene in Quantum Solace in the theater was a blurry grainy mess. The one with Craig and the double agent twirling around in the ropes and scaffolding.

Saw 300 at the IMAX, didn't enjoy the visual experience either.

Lots of people only watch movies at home and avoid theaters because of price, cellphones, kids, lines, etc. Maybe your not hearing people complain as much because people aren't going as much. Just a theory. But people are complaining, I am.

I never want detail removed and never turn on any feature on my TV that will soften the picture. I can totally accept grain, and don't wish it removed to ruin the picture. But I don't see why I have to like it, there are grain lovers, and 2 kinds of grain haters, the ones that hate it and can tolerate it and the ones who wish it all removed. I'm the first one. Grain is like the weather. There is the humidity in Taiwan, it's here, it's never gonna leave and I can complain about it. Just because the humidity is here I don't need to embrace it or like it.

[Kor-ray]

I really could care less about grain, but what is it used for? what's the reason for a director to put it in?

[dadkins]

Originally Posted by papaholmz

I think they understand just fine. They just happen to disagree.

Yes, but all too often disagreeing is frowned upon here.

[Another_Dude]

Originally Posted by Kor-ray

I really could care less about grain, but what is it used for? what's the reason for a director to put it in?

You should click on some of the links in this thread. The info you seek is out there and I think you'll find it interesting.

[mredman]

Isn't Blu Ray supossed to be true to the source?

[Valkyr47]

Originally Posted by Kor-ray

I really could care less about grain, but what is it used for? what's the reason for a director to put it in?

i suppose they feel it adds an artistic look for gritty films?

i will admit it feels more in place in certain movies

There Will Be Blood is very grainy on blu-ray, but it kind of works well because the movie is very gritty and kind of washed out, so the look makes sense

grain doesnt look good or make sense on movies that are all about looking flashy or hi-tech, i found Iron Man to be very grainy, and except for the scenes in Afghanistan, it didnt fit the feel of the movie

[Another_Dude]

Originally Posted by mredman

Isn't Blu Ray supossed to be true to the source?

Yes, and it is. VHS/DVD didn't offer enough resolution to see and hear the source as it is, and Blu-ray does.

[BLUCanadian]

Originally Posted by mredman

ADD Grain!

Why would you add grain if its not there that would be untrue to the way it was shown in theaters.

Blu Rays should be the way it was shown in theaters. Always thought Blu Ray was supossed to be true to the source(hence what was shown in the theater)

The grain can be added to a digitally filmed movie. It is added before the theatrical presentation, not only for the blu-ray

[mredman]

Didn't see X3 in theaters.But was there so much grain in X-men 3 in theaters?

[BLUCanadian]

Originally Posted by mredman

Didn't see X3 in theaters.But was there so much grain in X-men 3 in theaters?

you have already answered this question is a previous post of yours.

That said, 'The Last Stand' remains a very fine-looking Blu-ray presentation. Brett Ratner has been a vocal proponent of the Super35 process, which tends to increase visible film grain. Indeed, 'X-Men 3' does look grainy here, with a thin veil covering just about every scene, and some shots veer on the excessive. But that's indicative of the source, and video noise isn't really a problem (more on that below). This is certainly the least slick of the 'X-Men' movies. Colors are well-saturated, yet not too overdone. The X-films always looked a bit more naturalistic to me than, say, the 'Spider-Man' movies, which is again evident here. Blacks are rock solid and contrast is eye-popping but not tweaked to hell. Whites don't suffer from harshness or blooming (the exception being that damn bald kid again and his all-white room, which seems intentionally diffused).
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2110...tstand_se.html

by saying it is "indicative of the source" = faithful to the theatrical presentation

[KilloWertz]

Originally Posted by Spiderbri

and therein lies the problem. If grain can be added later that is what us grain haters...well hate. If it's natural to the medium being used thats one thing. I still don't like it but it's part of certain film stock. fine.

But when they add it thats when I get upset. if it's not in there then don't put it in. yeah, yeah it's "the directors vision" and all that crap. but seriously I've said it before, grain on a wild west movie doesn't make it more enjoyable or more authentic. It just makes it more grainy. but once again it's all just opinion the directors OPINION that it looks better. it doesn't mean it does look better.

I think a lot of grain lovers are falling for the old "emperors new cloths" thing. They say they love it because they think it makes them look more cultured or smarter since the all powerful director put it in. What about the writer? what was his/her vision when they wrote it? Maybe they never imagined it looking grainy for effect. I would think the writers opinion is more valid than the directors.

anyway whatever. I just think all the "educated reasons" behind grain are still largly opinion. I don't know. I'd just like to see more tolerance on these forums for different opinions. Like I said I don't agree but I've never considered someone that like grain stupid because of it. (they may be stupid but it has nothing to do with grain )

heh later.

*sigh* Since when is some grain in a movie a bad thing? Seriously, two long threads now about two movies being "too grainy" is absolutely absurd. I'd be more worried about actual noise, artifacts, and other things such as DNR than I would be about a little grain in the picture. If you don't like the fact that the higher resolution makes grain more visible in some movies, well, then I guess you're watching movies in the wrong format.

Let's take most of the video portion of the review here on X3... "Film grain makes a more visible appearance here than in the previous two outings in the X-Men series. Colors are sharp as a tack and cover a broad spectrum -- the steely blue interior of X-Men headquarters, the warm and natural look of Jean Gray's childhood home, and the film's many daytime exterior shots where the colors of nature are bold, pleasing, and clear as far as the eye can see. Detail is positively sharp and natural across the board, from the lines and hairs on faces to the rough texture and cracks to be seen on Juggernaut's helmet. The film takes on a marvelous cinematic look and feel, and features the most natural-looking flesh tones and blacks of the trio. X3 looks quite good on Blu-ray. "

Sure, more film grain is present in this one than the first two. Everything else about the video presentation is superb according to the review. It has some grain it, so I guess the fact that everything else about the video presentation being superb doesn't matter? Get over the fact that is has some grain in it and enjoy the fact that everything else about the PQ is superb. Would you rather have it clean and lose pretty much all of the other positives, or would you rather have it with a little more grain and an otherwise superb picture? I understand that some people think that the extra grain should have never been added, and maybe they're right. In the end, who really knows and who really cares. It's in there, and the rest of the presentation is great, so get over it. Again, it's absurd to keep going on about this when you're talking about a movie that looks awesome overall.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by Spiderbri

I think a lot of grain lovers are falling for the old "emperors new cloths" thing. They say they love it because they think it makes them look more cultured or smarter since the all powerful director put it in.

This statement is just as condescending as any of the 'stupid' insinuations directed at 'grain-haters'.

What about the writer? what was his/her vision when they wrote it? Maybe they never imagined it looking grainy for effect. I would think the writers opinion is more valid than the directors.

Why in world would the writer's opinion about the visual look of a film be more valid than the director's opinion?

In filmmaking, the director's job is not to bring the writer's vision to the screen. The director's job is to bring his or her own vision of the script to the screen, taking into consideration the writer's ideas as much as or as little as the director pleases.

[BaronVH]

I certainly don't intend to be snobbish, elitist, or anything. If somebody dislikes grain, OK, that is their issue. The fact is that if the director intended it to be there: Transformers, Master and Commander, Assassination of Jesse James, etc., then it should not be removed unless the director does it. Period. Second, many people do not have really large displays, so they cannot see what DNR does to a scene. For those that dislike it, I politely ask that you consider the issue with DVDs and letterbox vs. fullscreen. It is similar here. You can read up on what grain is and what it isn't. Meanwhile, if you still don't like it, many HDTVs have a DNR filter in the menu options. Mine has no DNR (which is where it will stay), moderate DNR, or high DNR. Messing with those options can show you why removing grain is problematic. The thing is if the studio uses excessive DNR, it can ruin the film, especially on large displays.

[goshikisen]

Originally Posted by Spiderbri

I think a lot of grain lovers are falling for the old "emperors new cloths" thing. They say they love it because they think it makes them look more cultured or smarter since the all powerful director put it in.

I think you have this whole grain thing entirely wrong. I think many of the people you see as "pro-grain" aren't actually "pro-grain" but more "give me the original the way the director intended it". I find grain to be distracting on occasion but I also understand it to be a natural part of the photo-chemical development process. I want the film to look the way it did in the theatre... no more, no less. Taking out dust and removing scratches is one thing (which I wholly support) but removing grain is neutering the "film" end of the visual presentation.

The idea of someone being "pro-grain" is a bit off the mark... it's more "you can clean the film up if you want but leave the original image alone".

[Alaskankaijudude]

Originally Posted by HD 335

No problem with film grain and I didn't think it was excessive in anyway. If you really want to see grainy, watch the Blu-ray import Hero, now that's grain-ilicious.

Or Grainbust...I mean Ghostbusters.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by BLUCanadian

you have already answered this question is a previous post of yours.

ok it in the review

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by mredman

No i have certainly not

so was X3 also that grainy in its theatrical release?

Nope, it was added specifically for the Blu-ray release and wasn't present on any source prior to blu-ray.

Joking aside, yes it was. You're seeing something identical to the source. A theatrical presentation can't even offer that so saying a blu-ray should be just like it was theatrically is kind of like saying the source should be downgraded because a lot can go wrong with a theatrical presentation.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by Alaskankaijudude

Or Grainbust...I mean Ghostbusters.

If Ghostbusters is Grainbusters... then that would mean there's no grain in Ghostbusters because it's been busted...