2CH Audio Wishlist!

[Johnny Vinyl]

Other than the subwoofer (I'm not a bass freak) my HT system is complete. I'm really enjoying movies now that we have BD to visually stun us. But I'm not yet satisfied. For the record, it's taken me over 2 years to assemble my system and I'm glad I took the time to audition all of the various componants I finally settled on. These choices may or may not suit you, but I'm very pleased by them.

However, movies/games are not my passion. I'm an audio guy and I love my vinyl.

So I'm in the market for a dedicated 2-Channel set-up. Money is a concern, but not overly so as I want to do it right and I don't care if it takes me 5 years to complete. (I'm a very patient person). Hopefully only 2-3 years, but you get my point.

I'm willing to budget between $10,000 - $15,000 (not including taxes and/or shipping or whatever). Cabling, interconnects is also not part of that equation as I'll start picking that up in between.

The componants I'm looking for are:
1. Power amp(s) (stereo or monoblocks)
2. Preamp
3.Turntable, arm, cartridge (with ability to upgrade/interchange)
4. Phono Stage
5. Speakers
6. Room treatments

Am I missing anything else for a purely vinyl set-up?

I'd love to hear some recommendations, so I can start auditioning and assembling a potential rough draft.

[Scooby Blu]

I am looking at this set up for me in the Spring of 2009 !

This amp. http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/Pro...tails.htm?Id=8

This pre-amp http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/Pro...ails.htm?Id=39

This CD player http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/Pro...ails.htm?Id=24

I already have the B&W 600 series for my HT set up so I like the sound of the B&W's.

That is set up for now , I have always liked the pure sound of Rotel, but sonic pleasure differs from one person to another in very large degress to say the least. Good luck. Always nice to see another's quest for great two channel sound.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by John72953

.....I'd love to hear some recommendations, so I can start auditioning and assembling a potential rough draft.

You should be able to put together an excellent 2ch rig with this budget. How big is the room and what's it like? I would respectfully suggest that you select your speakers first, then do whatever acoustic treatments and then work on the remainder. It would be helpful if you could do a preliminary breakdown of your budget (speakers vs. room treatment vs. amp/pre etc.), though I know that may change as things develop.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by RUR

You should be able to put together an excellent 2ch rig with this budget. How big is the room and what's it like? I would respectfully suggest that you select your speakers first, then do whatever acoustic treatments and then work on the remainder. It would be helpful if you could do a preliminary breakdown of your budget (speakers vs. room treatment vs. amp/pre etc.), though I know that may change as things develop.

It's going to be in a different room, which is approximately 15' x 10'. I have no clue as to how much room treatment and where I should incorporate those. The room has hardwood floors, but it has a 6x9 carpet, heavy drapes and fabric (couch) furniture.

In terms of how much to spend on individual componants, I'm not entirely clear about that yet. I do know that the front-end, which I consider to be the TT assemblage, of great importance. So as a starting point, perhaps about $5,000 for the TT (including Phono Stage). Then perhaps about $4,000 for the Power Amp/Pre-amp (or a solid integrated) (I'm flexible) and the balance on speakers.

The speakers will be the last or second last thing I buy as I can always use my Totems in the meantime (regardless of how much of a pain in the ass that would be). And, if I need to spend another G or 2 on speakers, so be it. The bottom line is I want something I'm going to be satisfied with.

The buying pattern will be as follows, because I can utlilize those componants with my existing HT set-up and get some enjoyment out of those rather expensive purchases.

1. Turntable (table, arm, cartridge, phono stage)

The others are up in the air. And I suppose it'll have to do with what I can get at what price and when.

Thanks for your recommendations rur. And I'd love to hear your comments/suggestions regarding room treatmnent. You're one of the most vocal proponants on room treatments, so I value your opinion.

[RUR]

This makes perfect sense, though there's a fair bit of preamp/amp/speaker interaction, meaning that you need to be careful when selecting the amp/preamp first so that you're reasonably sure they'll play nice with the speakers you'll ultimately buy.

In re: room treatments, I'd suggest you plan on corner bass traps in the front two corners and H/F absorbtion for the wall first reflection points. Once you've got those and all your gear hooked up so that you can listen to it, you can decide what, if anything further is needed.

Sooooo, my fast math says you plan on ~5K for speakers?

I'm not a TT expert so I'll defer to richteer and others on that. Give me some time to ponder amp/preamp combos. I'm assuming you're willing to buy gently used off A-gon, yes? You'll get a whole lot more bang for your buck that way.....

[Big Daddy]

The following suggestions are mostly factory direct high end products. You can save a lot of money this way.

Emotiva makes extremely high quality products and sells them factory direct at low prices. You can spend several thousand dollars more and not do better.

2 Ch Preamp
Emotiva RSP-1 preamplifier, $629
http://www.emotiva.com/rsp1.html

2 Ch Amp
Emotiva, 250 watts RMS/ channel into 8 ohms, 500 watts RMS/ channel into 4 ohms and 1,000 watts RMS bridged, $799 factory direct
http://www.emotiva.com/xpa2.html

Turntable
Pro-Jet RM-5-SE with arm and Sumiko Bluepoint No.2 Cartridge, $999
http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/products/rm5.htm

Speakers
Linbrook Signature System, $6,500 factory direct
http://www.tyleracoustics.com/linbrook.html
http://www.tyleracoustics.com/product.html
You have to spend a few thousand dollars more to get speakers this good

or

Presence Loudspeakers, $8,000, factory direct
Amazing speakers, Very pretty, Come in different colors
http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers....&category_id=1

CD Player, Amps, & Preamps
Cambridge Audio Azur 740C, $1,000
One of the best CD players on the market, according to Stereophile Magazine, it is an exceptional value for the money
They also make excellent amps and preamps
You can buy them at discounted prices at Dedicated Audio
http://dedicatedaudio.com/electronics
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products.php#amplifiers

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by RUR

In re: room treatments, I'd suggest you plan on corner bass traps in the front two corners and H/F absorbtion for the wall first reflection points. Once you've got those and all your gear hooked up so that you can listen to it, you can decide what, if anything further is needed.

I was definately considering bass traps and thanks for the placement suggestion. But what is H/F absorbtion and wall first reflecting point? Is that behind speaker placement or behind the far wall (couch)?

I'd do another quote, but I don't know how...so on to your question about $$$ to spend on speakers. As I said in my OP, I'm flexible and I want to buy what suits me. If that means upping the ante on speakers (which I think it might), I will do so. I don't want to get ridiculous or anything, but this is a system that will be with me for a very long time. So, speaker budget is the one area that I will be most flexible on regarding price.

Thanks for adding another year to my budget rur! LOL!

And yes, richteer certainly is a wealth of information on TT's. I doubt however that his Forsell Air Reference is in my budget! I certainly do welcome his thoughts and expertise on the matter though.

[mdabb]

Here is a couple of speaker suggestions which may or may not interest you.

Salk Sound HT3 veracity series. These will no doubt make beautiful music.
http://www.salksound.com/ht3.shtml

To audition the Salks just look on their website for the proper info and there are also owners who may live around you that are happy to let you come take a listen.

Dali Helicon 800s original or the MKII version. Also makes beautiful music.
http://www.dali.dk/us/page245.aspx?sub=266&prod=247
http://www.dali.dk/us/page245.aspx?sub=266&prod=747

You can find the Dali's for a great price on Audiogon just be selective and patient. It will pay off time and time again.............

If you want to hear the Dali's in person there are dealers all over Ontario.

Hope this is of help!!!!!!!!!!

[RUR]

Originally Posted by John72953

I was definately considering bass traps and thanks for the placement suggestion. But what is H/F absorbtion and wall first reflecting point? Is that behind speaker placement or behind the far wall (couch)?

H/F = High Frequency. 1st reflection point is the point on either sidewall where the H/F waves bounce toward your listening position. Think of it as a bank shot in pool. See this page about half-way down "First Reflections: Ceiling and Floor" http://www.realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm and this article: http://www.realtraps.com/rfz.htm

Originally Posted by mdabb

Here is a couple of speaker suggestions which may or may not interest you. ....

Both excellent suggestions for this budget. Shoot, if he's willing to give ML's a try (yes, I'm a Martin Logan fanboy), he can buy new Vantages for ~$4,500 or gently used for ~$3,200.

Meanwhile, on the integrated amp front, someone needs to buy this! http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls..../VAC-Avatar-SE

[mdabb]

Originally Posted by RUR

Both excellent suggestions for this budget. Shoot, if he's willing to give ML's a try (yes, I'm a Martin Logan fanboy), he can buy new Vantages for ~$4,500 or gently used for ~$3,200.

Definitely hard to make choices as there are a number of wonderful speakers out there. I wish I had the space right now for two separate systems.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by mdabb

Here is a couple of speaker suggestions which may or may not interest you.

Salk Sound HT3 veracity series. These will no doubt make beautiful music.
http://www.salksound.com/ht3.shtml

To audition the Salks just look on their website for the proper info and there are also owners who may live around you that are happy to let you come take a listen.

Dali Helicon 800s original or the MKII version. Also makes beautiful music.
http://www.dali.dk/us/page245.aspx?sub=266&prod=247
http://www.dali.dk/us/page245.aspx?sub=266&prod=747

You can find the Dali's for a great price on Audiogon just be selective and patient. It will pay off time and time again.............

If you want to hear the Dali's in person there are dealers all over Ontario.

Hope this is of help!!!!!!!!!!

I've heard a lot of positive things about the SALKS, but once I'm at that point I'll want to hear them first. Regardless of it's high regard in the industry, I won't buy blind.

The DALI's are speakers I have been giving consideration to. And as you indidcated there are dealers here whereby I can audition them. They are definately part of my search.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by John72953

I've heard a lot of positive things about the SALKS, but once I'm at that point I'll want to hear them first. Regardless of it's high regard in the industry, I won't buy blind.

Smart man. Salks are somewhat problematic in that they're manfacturer-direct. To handle this issue, Salk has an audition arrangement thread in their Audiocircle forum here: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...?topic=20721.0

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by RUR

H/F = High Frequency. 1st reflection point is the point on either sidewall where the H/F waves bounce toward your listening position. Think of it as a bank shot in pool. See this page about half-way down "First Reflections: Ceiling and Floor" http://www.realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm and this article: http://www.realtraps.com/rfz.htm

Both excellent suggestions for this budget. Shoot, if he's willing to give ML's a try (yes, I'm a Martin Logan fanboy), he can buy new Vantages for ~$4,500 or gently used for ~$3,200.

Meanwhile, on the integrated amp front, someone needs to buy this! http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls..../VAC-Avatar-SE

Thanks for clearing up my H/F question. Now I know a little more about room treatment placement.

And yes, I am VERY interested in Martin Logan's. I've always clamored for a pair. Every time I go and audition them they just scream out at me and say "buy me, buy me!". However, I don't want to limit myself right out of the box. So I'm going to take my time. The DALI's and M/L's are definate considerations.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

However, movies/games are not my passion. I'm an audio guy and I love my vinyl.

So I'm in the market for a dedicated 2-Channel set-up. Money is a concern, but not overly so as I want to do it right and I don't care if it takes me 5 years to complete. (I'm a very patient person). Hopefully only 2-3 years, but you get my point.

I'm willing to budget between $10,000 - $15,000 (not including taxes and/or shipping or whatever). Cabling, interconnects is also not part of that equation as I'll start picking that up in between.

The componants I'm looking for are:
1. Power amp(s) (stereo or monoblocks)
2. Preamp
3.Turntable, arm, cartridge (with ability to upgrade/interchange)
4. Phono Stage
5. Speakers
6. Room treatments

Am I missing anything else for a purely vinyl set-up?

A two channel, vinyl-only set up? You have great taste, sir! :-)

The only other thing I'd add to your list is an quipment rack or two. I have my turntable on its own rack, my preamp, power conditioner, and CD player on another, and my monoblocks each have their own rack. I really ought to post some pics of my rig here one day!

I'll make some more specific equipment suggestions in my next post.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by John72953

And yes, I am VERY interested in Martin Logan's. I've always clamored for a pair. Every time I go and audition them they just scream out at me and say "buy me, buy me!". However, I don't want to limit myself right out of the box. So I'm going to take my time. The DALI's and M/L's are definate considerations.

Get yourself to a ML dealer who handles the ESL line (NOT Magnolia), sit down with a couple of your favorite CD's, close your eyes and listen. Vantages are well within your price range and, for sheer transparency, will blow away speakers costing much, much more. They don't need a lot of power, but they do need proper amplification. That can easily be accomplished within your budget.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by richteer

A two channel, vinyl-only set up? You have great taste, sir! :-)

The only other thing I'd add to your list is an quipment rack or two. I have my turntable on its own rack, my preamp, power conditioner, and CD player on another, and my monoblocks each have their own rack. I really ought to post some pics of my rig here one day!

I'll make some more specific equipment suggestions in my next post.

Dedicated equipment racks are a guarenteed thing! I would probably wall-mount the TT. Your suggestion about seperate racks for your mono-blocks is an interesting one and not something I considered.

I'd love to see some pics of your set-up! Or anyone else with a 2-Channel setup for that matter.

While I have you richteer, a friend of mine has an Oracle Delphi (I don't know the model and/or the arm/cartridge he's using) and it looks sweet. Sounds absolutely amazing as well. What are your thoughts on Oracle?

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by RUR

Get yourself to a ML dealer who handles the ESL line (NOT Magnolia), sit down with a couple of your favorite CD's, close your eyes and listen. Vantages are well within your price range and, for sheer transparency, will blow away speakers costing much, much more. They don't need a lot of power, but they do need proper amplification. That can easily be accomplished within your budget.

Actually, there is a ML dealer just around the corner from me, but I haven't been in for awhile. He's one of those "I know everything about sound and you don't" kinda guys, so that pisses me off. But I suppose I should bite the bullet and ignore his obviously self-imposed superiority complex. And yes, the ESL line is what I would look for. However, and no offense, but I think I'll bring along some vinyl...after all, that is what this "wishlist" in a few years is all about.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by Scooby Blu

I am looking at this set up for me in the Spring of 2009 !

This amp. http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/Pro...tails.htm?Id=8

This pre-amp http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/Pro...ails.htm?Id=39

This CD player http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/Pro...ails.htm?Id=24

I already have the B&W 600 series for my HT set up so I like the sound of the B&W's.

That is set up for now , I have always liked the pure sound of Rotel, but sonic pleasure differs from one person to another in very large degress to say the least. Good luck. Always nice to see another's quest for great two channel sound.

I've always liked ROTEL as well, and like you I enjoy their sound. However, I would like to take it up slightly, so I'm considering Bryston, SimAudio, YBA and a few others. I had a McIntosh 2105 Integrated Amp (I think that was the model) back in the 80's and I loved it, so they're in the equation as well.

However, since $5,000 is probably the max for a Power/Pre/Integrated, I'm not yet sure if that leaves me out in the cold for those brands. We'll have to see. If I find a combo that I really like, I would move a bit financially, but hopefully I won't have to.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

In terms of how much to spend on individual componants, I'm not entirely clear about that yet. I do know that the front-end, which I consider to be the TT assemblage, of great importance. So as a starting point, perhaps about $5,000 for the TT (including Phono Stage). Then perhaps about $4,000 for the Power Amp/Pre-amp (or a solid integrated) (I'm flexible) and the balance on speakers.

Quite a reasonable allocation of funds, though I might be inclined to steal a bit from the amp section and put it into your front end.

You mentioned the ability to upgrade in your first post, so the turntable/arm that comes immediately to mind is the VPI Scoutmaster, to which you can later add VPI's SDS motor controller. The Scoutmaster starts at $2500, including an arm.

The Pro-ject RM-9.1 ($2k to $3.3k depending on options) also comes to mind, although upgradability is limited here.

If you really want to push the boat out, the SME Model 10 and especially the SME Model 20 are very highly regarded. I lust after their big brother, the $40k SME Model 30, and I've heard the Model 20 a few times.

Rega also make some very good turntables, and their tonearms (e.g., the RB300) are just about unbeatable for the money. There are a few other turntable brands worth looking at, but I think this is enough for now! Let me know if you want any more options...

As for cartridges, I like Lyra's offerings (I have one of their Parnassus MC cartridges). The Lyra Dorian, Argo i, or (if you can stretch to it) Helikon are worth exploring. The higher up cartidges in Sumiko's range (Blue Point, Blue Point Special, etc.) are worth checking out too. And I'd be very remiss if I didn't at least mention Koetsu. Their entry level "Black" is pretty good, and their Rosewood and Rosewood Signatures are renown for their lush sound.

As for phonostages, I personally lust after the $6000 Audio Research Corp (ARC) PH 7, but their PH 5 is almost as good for about one-third the price. Sutherland's battery powered Ph.D is excellent, and the new(ish) Sutherland Ph3D is also very good. The Sutherlands are about $3k and $1k respectively. Unless you want to go absolutley nuts, any of these three phono stages will give you breathtaking results.

Phew, that's a lot of options! I hope this helps.


I second RUR's recommendation for Martin Logan speakers. I'm in the process of planning my next upgrade and in addition to replacing my preamp to power amps interconnect and speaker cables, I'll be replacing my speakers. A pair of Martin Logan Vantages or Spires is at the top of my shortlist--which might go further up ML's range should finances permit. (I'll also be checking out other options, but ML's are at the top of the list for now.)

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

Dedicated equipment racks are a guarenteed thing! I would probably wall-mount the TT. Your suggestion about seperate racks for your mono-blocks is an interesting one and not something I considered.

I recommend separate (low) racks for monoblocks for two reasons: 1. to get the amps off of the floor, and 2. to place them near your speakers.

I'd love to see some pics of your set-up! Or anyone else with a 2-Channel setup for that matter.

Hint noted! :-) I'll see what I can do...

While I have you richteer, a friend of mine has an Oracle Delphi (I don't know the model and/or the arm/cartridge he's using) and it looks sweet. Sounds absolutely amazing as well. What are your thoughts on Oracle?

Oracle are another company I recommend--and they're Canadian! :-) The Oracle Delphi is very nice, and matches SME's tonearms very well too. Very worth you investigating!