Schindler's List (1993) (20th Anniversary Limited Edition)

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

You can present genocide on TV, but as for body parts...FEAR THE BOOBIES!

How did they get around the nude workers forced to jog in front of officers? The scene where they are culling the old and weak like butchers at a cattle auction? Were they allowed to show that because there was no sex involved?

Yup. Exactly that.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

You can present genocide on TV, but as for body parts...FEAR THE BOOBIES!

How did they get around the nude workers forced to jog in front of officers? The scene where they are culling the old and weak like butchers at a cattle auction? Were they allowed to show that because there was no sex involved?

Yep, although there was one congressman who complained about even that nudity:

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilre...ler-on-tv.html

Luckily the rest of the sane world, including the head of the FCC, pointed out to him that if he found Holocaust-related nudity to be sexual, then the problem was in his warped mind.

Meanwhile, when I saw it on German TV, it was completely uncut. They have no issue with showing tame sex scenes like the two in this film on network television.

[psperson]

Originally Posted by Midnight Rambler

No flipping with Blu-rays.

And you probably won't have to deal with a movie split in to separate discs either, unless you're a LOTR fan ...

Or a Ten Commandments fan.

Or a Ben Hur fan.

Some traditions die hard.

Still, there are some films that were spread over two discs in DVD that appear to be on one disc (and so, per the above, on one side of one disc) in Blu-ray.

[psperson]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The prison scene is on my DVD. And Blu-Ray.

The scene where he is put into prison is in both.

But, on the DVD (well, the version I have if there were more than one), the next scene starts with the other prisoner saying something like "And what's your story?".

On the VHS, this prisoner first told why he was there. That is what was lost on the DVD. If you doubt this, rev up your DVD and tell us why the other prisoner was there.

There are other films which lost material moving from VHS to DVD, most memorably, the Zeffirelli The Taming of the Shrew, where the missing line really matters because the next line (preserved on the DVD) is a response to it, and so is left hanging in the air on the DVD.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by psperson

The scene where he is put into prison is in both.

But, on the DVD (well, the version I have if there were more than one), the next scene starts with the other prisoner saying something like "And what's your story?".

On the VHS, this prisoner first told why he was there. That is what was lost on the DVD. If you doubt this, rev up your DVD and tell us why the other prisoner was there.

There are other films which lost material moving from VHS to DVD, most memorably, the Zeffirelli The Taming of the Shrew, where the missing line really matters because the next line (preserved on the DVD) is a response to it, and so is left hanging in the air on the DVD.

Are you certain this change was made? It's the first I've ever heard about it. I saw the film 5 or 6 times in theaters, watched the VHS a few times, and never noticed anything missing on DVD.

Unfortunately I sold my VHS when I bought my DVD, so I can't compare them.

However the scene as it stands now is:

[Show spoiler]SOLDIER
What about you?

SCHINDLER
I violated the Race and Resettlement Act. Though I doubt anyone can point out the actual provision to me. I kissed a Jewish girl.

SOLDIER
Did your prick fall off?

The soldier laughs hysterically, Schindler laughs nervously.

Here is a video of that scene, presumably sourced from the DVD or the Blu-Ray:

http://www.anyclip.com/movies/schind...ing-schindler/

I don't remember it ever being any longer. In fact in the shooting script that can be found online, only Schindler's line is there, the soldier's two lines were presumably written closer to filming.

Do you still have your VHS? Can you check to see if this additional line from the soldier is there? I'm very curious.

Thanks!

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by psperson

Or a Ten Commandments fan.

Or a Ben Hur fan.

Some traditions die hard.

Still, there are some films that were spread over two discs in DVD that appear to be on one disc (and so, per the above, on one side of one disc) in Blu-ray.

Not so much tradition as doing justice to films that are nearly four hours long. I would rather switch discs than see beautiful restorations like Ben-Hur or The Ten Commandments hampered by compression.

[psperson]

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

Not so much tradition as doing justice to films that are nearly four hours long. I would rather switch discs than see beautiful restorations like Ben-Hur or The Ten Commandments hampered by compression.

Your preferences are certainly valid for you (and others who agree with you), and nothing I say here should be seen as attacking them, but your belief that quality would be degraded (except in some technical sense having nothing to do with how the film looks) is untestable (since no single-disc version exists) and is sometimes (but not necessarily here) based on an unfounded belief that the studios are acting in the purchaser's best interest.

They aren't. If they could make more money selling fish wrapped in yesterday's newspaper they would be doing that instead.

I, OTOH, would prefer them to be on one side of one disc (one disc for each film, of course).

I would even settle for an SD version on a single-layer BD, which should have more than enough space for the very sharp version I owned once on VHS and for the just-as-sharp version I own on DVD. It was digitally mastered, and was one of the very few VHS tapes that DVD could improve on mainly in the quality of the sound, at least once I switched to component video. Component video, as opposed to using an RFI converter and coax cable, greatly improved the video of most DVDs, compared to the VHS versions, as well.

Or they could use a dual-layer BD and relax the SD compression considerably.

But no, these films have always been presented in two parts, and they always will be, no matter what some customers may want.

I don't know about players, but BDs with up to four layers are (were, the last time I checked) defined. But even if four-layer BDs become common, I believe that these films will continue to be spread over two four-layer discs, because that is how it is done.

As I said, tradition.

[psperson]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Are you certain this change was made? It's the first I've ever heard about it. I saw the film 5 or 6 times in theaters, watched the VHS a few times, and never noticed anything missing on DVD.

Unfortunately I sold my VHS when I bought my DVD, so I can't compare them.

However the scene as it stands now is:

[Show spoiler]SOLDIER
What about you?

SCHINDLER
I violated the Race and Resettlement Act. Though I doubt anyone can point out the actual provision to me. I kissed a Jewish girl.

SOLDIER
Did your prick fall off?

The soldier laughs hysterically, Schindler laughs nervously.

Here is a video of that scene, presumably sourced from the DVD or the Blu-Ray:

http://www.anyclip.com/movies/schind...ing-schindler/

I don't remember it ever being any longer. In fact in the shooting script that can be found online, only Schindler's line is there, the soldier's two lines were presumably written closer to filming.

Do you still have your VHS? Can you check to see if this additional line from the soldier is there? I'm very curious.

Thanks!

I remember the scene clearly.

I do not remember what the soldier said.

I, too, have long-since sold my VHS copy.

However, I would suggest that this leaves the soldier's question hanging in the air, part of a prior conversation we were not (are no longer) party to.

If anyone still has the VHS, it should be at the end of the first tape.

The original question was, is this the alleged additional scene shown in Europe? Neither confirmation nor denial nor a description of the alleged additional material has appeared.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by psperson

I remember the scene clearly.

I do not remember what the soldier said.

I, too, have long-since sold my VHS copy.

However, I would suggest that this leaves the soldier's question hanging in the air, part of a prior conversation we were not (are no longer) party to.

If anyone still has the VHS, it should be at the end of the first tape.

The original question was, is this the alleged additional scene shown in Europe? Neither confirmation nor denial nor a description of the alleged additional material has appeared.

I think that's the intention though with the soldier's question. We're meant to assume they've been talking a while, but we cut in only when it gets to a point where they're talking about something relevant.

One thing I clearly remember from the VHS, however, was that the film was divided a couple of minutes earlier than it is on the DVD. While the jail scene is, indeed, at the end of side 1 on the DVD, it was actually at the beginning of part 2 on the VHS.

The first VHS ended with the scene of Schindler spraying water on the boxcars, and the second VHS opened with the car pulling up in front of his factory to arrest him, so the scene we're talking about would be about a minute or two into the beginning of tape 2.

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by psperson

Your preferences are certainly valid for you (and others who agree with you), and nothing I say here should be seen as attacking them, but your belief that quality would be degraded (except in some technical sense having nothing to do with how the film looks) is untestable (since no single-disc version exists) and is sometimes (but not necessarily here) based on an unfounded belief that the studios are acting in the purchaser's best interest.

They aren't. If they could make more money selling fish wrapped in yesterday's newspaper they would be doing that instead.

I, OTOH, would prefer them to be on one side of one disc (one disc for each film, of course).

I would even settle for an SD version on a single-layer BD, which should have more than enough space for the very sharp version I owned once on VHS and for the just-as-sharp version I own on DVD. It was digitally mastered, and was one of the very few VHS tapes that DVD could improve on mainly in the quality of the sound, at least once I switched to component video. Component video, as opposed to using an RFI converter and coax cable, greatly improved the video of most DVDs, compared to the VHS versions, as well.

Or they could use a dual-layer BD and relax the SD compression considerably.

But no, these films have always been presented in two parts, and they always will be, no matter what some customers may want.

I don't know about players, but BDs with up to four layers are (were, the last time I checked) defined. But even if four-layer BDs become common, I believe that these films will continue to be spread over two four-layer discs, because that is how it is done.

As I said, tradition.

As I said, quality.

Nothing you've said here is valid. Sorry. If it were, you'd have to change the disc even for two-hour movies. The reason that films which are nearly four hours are routinely spread across two discs is to preserve the quality. Fact. That there would be a depreciation in quality to cram Ben-Hur onto a single disc is not some far-flung hypothesis. It is an inescapable technological fact. Would it still look very good? Yes. Would it be reference? No. Is it reference now? Yes. End of argument.

[psperson]

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

As I said, quality.

Nothing you've said here is valid. Sorry. If it were, you'd have to change the disc even for two-hour movies. The reason that films which are nearly four hours are routinely spread across two discs is to preserve the quality. Fact. That there would be a depreciation in quality to cram Ben-Hur onto a single disc is not some far-flung hypothesis. It is an inescapable technological fact. Would it still look very good? Yes. Would it be reference? No. Is it reference now? Yes. End of argument.

And everything I said was valid. Did you even look up the capacity of 4-layer BD disc? Do you understand that two 50GB discs contain 100GB of data, which will fit on a single disc with 100GB+ capacity without degradation?

Do you understand that BDs simply contain data, and that nothing physical requires that data to be HD? The player may insist on it, but that is because it is programmed that way -- or the manufacturer skimped on components.

You cannot know what it would look like until someone does it.

You can only babble on about technical specs.

The map is not the terrain.

However, I am giving up on my plans to add Blu-ray to my movie-watching system, so there is no need to continue this further. I understand your position quite well, having encountered it in discussions of these films on DVD. And I think I made mine clear. No agreement is possible, except to disagree.

Have a nice day.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by psperson

I remember the scene clearly.

I do not remember what the soldier said.

I, too, have long-since sold my VHS copy.

However, I would suggest that this leaves the soldier's question hanging in the air, part of a prior conversation we were not (are no longer) party to.

If anyone still has the VHS, it should be at the end of the first tape.

The original question was, is this the alleged additional scene shown in Europe? Neither confirmation nor denial nor a description of the alleged additional material has appeared.

I have the U.S. laserdisc, which released day and date with the U.S. VHS, and no...there is no additional dialog. What is on the U.S. Blu-Ray is exactly what was in American theaters in 1993.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I have the U.S. laserdisc, which released day and date with the U.S. VHS, and no...there is no additional dialog. What is on the U.S. Blu-Ray is exactly what was in American theaters in 1993.

Thanks for checking! I didn't think there was any extra material in that scene. I saw the film at least 5 or 6 times in theaters, so I would have noticed something missing on the DVD or BD. Perhaps the other poster just assumed there was once more to that scene, since the soldier's line is clearly midway through a conversation. However the shooting script shows that the scene as it appears in the finished film is actually longer than written. The soldier does not speak in the script, the scene just consists of Schindler's line. The soldier's two lines were presumably written close to filming or even added on set, to add some humor.

http://screenplayexplorer.com/wp-con...dlers-List.pdf

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by psperson

And everything I said was valid. Did you even look up the capacity of 4-layer BD disc? Do you understand that two 50GB discs contain 100GB of data, which will fit on a single disc with 100GB+ capacity without degradation?

Do you understand that BDs simply contain data, and that nothing physical requires that data to be HD? The player may insist on it, but that is because it is programmed that way -- or the manufacturer skimped on components.

You cannot know what it would look like until someone does it.

You can only babble on about technical specs.

The map is not the terrain.

However, I am giving up on my plans to add Blu-ray to my movie-watching system, so there is no need to continue this further. I understand your position quite well, having encountered it in discussions of these films on DVD. And I think I made mine clear. No agreement is possible, except to disagree.

Have a nice day.

4-layer discs would require completely new hardware. That's why they're not on the market.

Enjoy your awesome super-sharp VHS, I guess. I'll stick to BD...even if it means occasionally changing discs during the Intermission.

[schan1269]

And this person arguing about "BD quality and content" has a SD tube...

[Oblivion138]

That explains a lot.

For the record...

Ben-Hur (BD vs. DVD): http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ess=#vergleich

The Ten Commandments (BD vs. DVD): http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

Anyone who still wants to watch these films in SD is welcome to. Myself, I don't mind changing discs for the sake of the incredible quality offered by the BD editions.

[Imaginarion]

This is a digibook release, correct? Is there any R1 release of this movie in a standard Blu-ray case? I'm not a fan of digibook/digipaks.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Imaginarion

This is a digibook release, correct? Is there any R1 release of this movie in a standard Blu-ray case? I'm not a fan of digibook/digipaks.

Digibook only in the US. No standard release.

[JackKnightStarman]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Digibook only in the US. No standard release.

I bought this on release and it is not a digibook in America. It is a digipack. No book was ever included. It's size is that of a digibook though...

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by JackKnightStarman

I bought this on release and it is not a digibook in America. It is a digipack. No book was ever included. It's size is that of a digibook though...

Ah, I only meant it's not in a normal plastic case, it's in a larger cardboard package