Is Blu-ray Sony's trump card for future exclusive games?

[Cidien]

Originally Posted by reiella

Argument by authority by proxy, nice.

Pretty much. I just realized, why argue. I havn't argued on boards about anything like this in a long time. Dunno why I let people irritate me so much lately. You could show someone with documented evidence how you're 100% right on the internet and still not convince anyone of anything.

[Proteus]

Well, when it comes to the Cell Ascended usually has his ducks in a pretty tight row.

I'm pretty certain that GeoW3 will hit PS3, as I already stated, but there is always that .01% and that just happens to be the 'Gears is a trilogy' fact. Might be odd to break up the trilogy between systems. Then again, I don't remember much story at all in GeoW!

[Cidien]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Well, when it comes to the Cell Ascended usually has his ducks in a pretty tight row.

I'm pretty certain that GeoW3 will hit PS3, as I already stated, but there is always that .01% and that just happens to be the 'Gears is a trilogy' fact. Might be odd to break up the trilogy between systems. Then again, I don't remember much story at all in GeoW!

It's there it just kinda sets up the second game from what they're saying.

And ya, I have played MGS4. About 4 times now. For me it's 6 mins installs after the first one. SO sorry I generalized it by saying 10 min installs instead of specifying exactly how much each install time is. Seriously. What's wrong with you.

[chnandler_bong]

Originally Posted by Cidien

It's there it just kinda sets up the second game from what they're saying.

And ya, I have played MGS4. About 4 times now. For me it's 6 mins installs after the first one. SO sorry I generalized it by saying 10 min installs instead of specifying exactly how much each install time is. Seriously. What's wrong with you.

Good lord, less red meat and stupid comments please.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by Cidien

You could show someone with documented evidence how you're 100% right on the internet and still not convince anyone of anything.

You are using the same argument HD DVD users did. "All releases on both are equal, therefore it's not possible for you to have a better version."

I'm not going to say Metal Gear Solid 4: Twin Snakes edition couldn't be done on 360. But the engine as is is said to use 8 threads, which is impossible on 360, so the engine would have to be tweaked, period.

[reiella]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

You are using the same argument HD DVD users did. "All releases on both are equal, therefore it's not possible for you to have a better version."

I'm not going to say Metal Gear Solid 4: Twin Snakes edition couldn't be done on 360. But the engine as is is said to use 8 threads, which is impossible on 360, so the engine would have to be tweaked, period.

Erm. Not quite.

You can have more than a single thread running on a single processor at a time. It's really closer to virtualizing, but the PC had been doing that for quite some time until the recent outbreaks of multi-core for home PCs.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by Cidien

Pretty much. I just realized, why argue. I havn't argued on boards about anything like this in a long time. Dunno why I let people irritate me so much lately. You could show someone with documented evidence how you're 100% right on the internet and still not convince anyone of anything.

It kind of tough to have a debate with someone with you have to "limit" yourself to truth, aye?

Let's take a look at the only approach that could prove me wrong, shall we? You would have to prove that the X360 drive is faster (much faster) than the PS3's drive. You can't logically do that, because the PS3's drive is faster at transferring large amounts of data. The BD drive a faster over 60% of the dual layer DVDs the X360 would use for most games (vs. using a BD for the same amount of information). Therefore, your argument would fail. I think you realized this and made your back out statement...your...get out of jail free card.

Originally Posted by reiella

Erm. Not quite.

You can have more than a single thread running on a single processor at a time. It's really closer to virtualizing, but the PC had been doing that for quite some time until the recent outbreaks of multi-core for home PCs.

X360 can handle 2 threads per core (2 of the same instruction sets can not be run on the same core at the same time). Of course, 2 threads on 2 processors (1 thread per core) is faster than 2 threads on 1 processor.

[Terjyn]

You didn't mention the most important part of that, which is the 360 has 3 cores. 3x2 = 6 maximum threads.

6 < 8. Some how the threads would have to be combined, and if you've ever attempted to do it, that isn't easy, so it's generally easier to just re-write.

[reiella]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

X360 can handle 2 threads per core (2 of the same instruction sets can not be run on the same core at the same time). Of course, 2 threads on 2 processors (1 thread per core) is faster than 2 threads on 1 processor.

I think you're misunderstanding what a threaded application actually means, and further what hyperthreading is.

If not, I apologize for suggesting so, but just realize that because an application has multiple threads doesn't mean all threads must run simultaneously. Further, the order of operation cannot be assured, hence why threadsafe programming is alot more of a headache than non-threadsafe programming. A single CPU is capable of having as many threads running on it as it's operating system permits.

Originally Posted by Terjyn

You didn't mention the most important part of that, which is the 360 has 3 cores. 3x2 = 6 maximum threads.

6 < 8. Some how the threads would have to be combined, and if you've ever attempted to do it, that isn't easy, so it's generally easier to just re-write.

Makes me wonder if you have done threaded programming myself to be honest . But neither here nor there [and again, that was really a low-blow and a logical falacy on my part, so my apologies]. Consider the reasons EA said they were using the PS3 for lead platform instead of the 360. Pretty much the exact opposite of your reasoning.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by reiella

I think you're misunderstanding what a threaded application actually means, and further what hyperthreading is.

If not, I apologize for suggesting so, but just realize that because an application has multiple threads doesn't mean all threads must run simultaneously. Further, the order of operation cannot be assured, hence why threadsafe programming is alot more of a headache than non-threadsafe programming. A single CPU is capable of having as many threads running on it as it's operating system permits.

No worries. This I understand. But, if you have 100% or near 100% processor usage (as I believe Kojima claimed at one point), all available processors are running something simultaneously. That would mean 7 processors (6 SPEs plus 1 PPE) are running at or near max (at near linear performance increases per additional SPE used). Knowing what we know about the SPE/SPU performance on certain tasks when compared to similiar clocked OOOe processors. That would make it impossible to be done in it's curent form on the X360 (only having 3 in-order cores and shared cache).

[reiella]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

No worries. This I understand. But, if you have 100% or near 100% processor usage (as I believe Kojima claimed at one point), all available processors are running something simultaneously. That would mean 7 processors (6 SPEs plus 1 PPE) are running at or near max (at near linear performance increases per additional SPE used). Knowing what we know about the SPE/SPU performance on certain tasks when compared to similiar clocked OOOe processors. That would make it impossible to be done in it's curent form on the X360 (only having 3 in-order cores and shared cache).

And I can 'agree' with that argument .

It does largely depend on the design approach and where the burst points are [and of course, your tolerance for reducing the minimum fps]. New techniques and tricks as consoles mature can result in more efficent utilization of processing power. I'm not in a position to know or say if it 'can' or cannot be done specifically on this title, but I have no reason to doubt the developers comments as to the viability of such a port.

[Excalibur-king]

I saw the videos of Bioshock for PS3 and the devs talked about how the PS3 was much better because of Blu-ray i mean.

25/50GB >>>>>>>>> 4.5gb simple fact.

microsoft screw up big time with the dvd is making all games on ther system be really short, mass effect only 12 hours, gears of war 4 hours,ninja gaiden 2 5 hours ect. also those multiple disks games like lost oddeysey.

Sony made the perfect desicion with Blu-ray, Sony is just alot smarter then microsoft hehe.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by shaka

I saw the videos of Bioshock for PS3 and the devs talked about how the PS3 was much better because of Blu-ray i mean.

25/50GB >>>>>>>>> 4.5gb simple fact.

microsoft screw up big time with the dvd is making all games on ther system be really short, mass effect only 12 hours, gears of war 4 hours,ninja gaiden 2 5 hours ect. also those multiple disks games like lost oddeysey.

Sony made the perfect desicion with Blu-ray, Sony is just alot smarter then microsoft hehe.

Actually, most X360 games are on dual-layered DVDs. That means (with security software included) the X360 has about 7GB at it's disposal...not 4.5GB.

Let's just traffic in truths, if we can. Personally, I believe Sony just thinks a lot further ahead and accounts for more variables than MS.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by reiella

Makes me wonder if you have done threaded programming myself to be honest . But neither here nor there [and again, that was really a low-blow and a logical falacy on my part, so my apologies]. Consider the reasons EA said they were using the PS3 for lead platform instead of the 360. Pretty much the exact opposite of your reasoning.

Yes, I have done threaded programming, and I don't know what I said that makes you wonder.

What I said matches up perfectly with what you said. You can run 6 threads simultaneously on a 360. If you want to run more than 6 you have to combine them. Either you combine the threads into one thread, or you run them back to back (combine them on one core). Either way what I said applies. Neither way is simple. Both methods will be WAY slower than the PS3. Neither way would be acceptable to 360 owners, I'd feel sorry if they tried. All of this assumes that there aren't completely and utterly independent threads with plenty of free time, but I'm going to claim there aren't.

Sorry that I didn't include one word (simultaneously).

[reiella]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

Yes, I have done threaded programming, and I don't know what I said that makes you wonder.

What I said matches up perfectly with what you said. You can run 6 threads simultaneously on a 360. If you want to run more than 6 you have to combine them. Either you combine the threads into one thread, or you run them back to back (combine them on one core). Either way what I said applies.

If you could assure thread concurrence, why do you need to make programs threadsafe?

[Lucy Diamond]

Gears of War ALMOST made me buy an Xbox. I think that game would be insane in Blu.

[Mikeblu]

Originally Posted by Lucy Diamond

Gears of War ALMOST made me buy an Xbox. I think that game would be insane in Blu.

just buy a xbox mk 2 (PC)

[Psx0005]

Originally Posted by Mikeblu

just buy a xbox mk 2 (PC)

And look! You get to play Solitaire for free without having to purchase it from XBLA!!!!

[Mikeblu]

Originally Posted by Psx0005

And look! You get to play Solitaire for free without having to purchase it from XBLA!!!!

and you can play C&C properly

[mustang-gt-2002]

Originally Posted by Mikeblu

just buy a xbox mk 2 (PC)

Mikeblu you have a 16GB card in a PSP slim. how big can the PSP slim go. do you think it will be able to use a 32GB card.