Jurassic World (2015)

[MechaGodzilla]

The best contribution to this whole discussion I've seen anywhere yet:

Everybody seems to be forgetting that the film will also include a strong, independent female lead who (probably) isn't a love interest:

[Show spoiler]

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by chip75

I think Black Widow and the other females in the MARVEL movies (and most movies in general) would fall under "The Male Gaze" theory, The Avengers is written by a man and filmed by a man. Black Widow is predominately viewed from a male perspective and she there as an object for the viewer and the male members in the movie itself. She's eroticized by the cinematographer, the director and the viewers (both in the audience and the in the movie itself), I'm surprised Joss Whedon made such a comment. His back-catalogue is full of females eroticized for his audience's pleasure and the pleasure of the characters in the films and shows themselves. He may down play it in screenplays, but it's certainly there.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that scene cut or altered in the final movie, it's not great, but it may play better in context.

What sexism and feminism are defined as depends on the person you ask. Every man or woman has a nuanced view of those things. I am sure Whedon balks at the male gaze stuff, considering his work, but is all about women being depicted as strong and independent, which he basically made his name on. He has his own views on what is or is not sexist, and many might agree or disagree. And that's okay, but I don't think he should use such dramatic language.

That's why a lot of rants/blogs/tweets/etc. on these issues are annoying. They take nuanced, subjective arguments and use dramatic labels like "sexist!" to get attention. People even call women sexist against women when it suits their drama arguments, it's all kind of silly at some point, even if we do still have a sexism problem in America (and we do).

Anyway... the clip is poorly written and leans on annoying tropes about BOTH gender roles, and thus is crap, but whether it is "sexist" or not depends on your language usage and subjective opinion about where the line is between sexism and cliched writing.

[Riddhi2011]

What is this -

1.90 : 1 (IMAX version)
2.35 : 1

2.35:1? really?? My god, why?? I hope IMDB listing is wrong!

Nowhere, on the page is the original ratio (2.00:1) even mentioned!. I think they got it wrong.

link - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0369610/...ef_=tt_dt_spec

[motorheadache95]

Considering the first trailer had the line-- "Depends on what kind of dinosaur they cooked up in that lab" I'm not surprised to see accusations of cliche or hackneyed writing. I didn't watch the new clip though, and I don't have any particular desire to or discuss if it's sexist or not. I've already filled my quota for the year on these arguments from that freaking Batgirl cover fiasco.

I seriously doubt the movie will measure up with the original Spielberg film. I just hope it's not as bad as the other two sequels.

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by chip75

I think Black Widow and the other females in the MARVEL movies (and most movies in general) would fall under "The Male Gaze" theory, The Avengers is written by a man and filmed by a man. Black Widow is predominately viewed from a male perspective and she there as an object for the viewer and the male members in the movie itself. She's eroticized by the cinematographer, the director and the viewers (both in the audience and the in the movie itself), I'm surprised Joss Whedon made such a comment. His back-catalogue is full of females eroticized for his audience's pleasure and the pleasure of the characters in the films and shows themselves. He may down play it in screenplays, but it's certainly there.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that scene cut or altered in the final movie, it's not great, but it may play better in context.

That just reminds me of how much of a hypocrite Whedon is. Black Widow is tied up, man handled, and nearly raped at the beginning of the Avengers, but Whedon thinks having her fight out of it (in a wardrobe that has her boobs bouncing everywhere of course) empowers females.

The guy is a kook.

Originally Posted by Spooked

Wait... I'm supposed to believe that she's the Operations Manager? (Though that might explain why the dinosaurs escape...)

Now this sounds sexist

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by bluearth

That just reminds me of how much of a hypocrite Whedon is. Black Widow is tied up, man handled, and nearly raped at the beginning of the Avengers, but Whedon thinks having her fight out of it (in a wardrobe that has her boobs bouncing everywhere of course) empowers females.

The guy is a kook.



Now this sounds sexist

What part of that scene implies she's nearly raped?

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by bluearth

That just reminds me of how much of a hypocrite Whedon is. Black Widow is tied up, man handled, and nearly raped at the beginning of the Avengers, but Whedon thinks having her fight out of it (in a wardrobe that has her boobs bouncing everywhere of course) empowers females.

The guy is a kook.



Now this sounds sexist

Yes, your version, where she spends an entire film wearing a burka and reading the Bible while in the library would be MUCH better.

Thank you for that.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Yes, your version, where she spends an entire film wearing a burka and reading the Bible while in the library would be MUCH better.

Thank you for that.

How many people wear a burka and read the Bible?

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

How many people wear a burka and read the Bible?

Well, that makes as much as sense as what was being proposed in the post to which I was responding.

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by Foggy

What part of that scene implies she's nearly raped?

Shes tied up and punched in the face by a man with a closed fist -

At best its borderline BDSM

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Yes, your version, where she spends an entire film wearing a burka and reading the Bible while in the library would be MUCH better.

Thank you for that.

I just wish directors werent so ham handed with violence, sexuality, and language.

Anyways, everytime I watch the new clip Im breaking out laughing. Chris Pratt is the real deal.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by bluearth

Shes tied up and punched in the face by a man with a closed fist -

At best its borderline BDSM

Tying someone up against her (or his) will and punching her in the face IS NOT BDSM! That's assault and potentially torture. Anyone who thinks that THAT is BDSM has, well, never been around anyone who is familiar with the subject.

I just wish directors werent so ham handed with violence, sexuality, and language.

Anyways, everytime I watch the new clip Im breaking out laughing. Chris Pratt is the real deal.

The comic book movies I have seen, whether DC or Marvel, are NOTHING compared to what happens in the books themselves.

For instance, there's a story where Captain Marvel (the female one, from Marvel) is being held and questioned and has her arm utterly smashed by a hammer. Now, there's nothing you're going to see in the movies. And don't even get me started on what happens to Wonder Woman in the comics, or on what she does to others.

[ManBeast]

Originally Posted by Riddhi2011

What is this -

1.90 : 1 (IMAX version)
2.35 : 1

2.35:1? really?? My god, why?? I hope IMDB listing is wrong!

Nowhere, on the page is the original ratio (2.00:1) even mentioned!. I think they got it wrong.

link - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0369610/...ef_=tt_dt_spec

That's what made me think it was unreliable. It did list the aspect ratio as 2:00:1 originally.

[Foggy]

Originally Posted by bluearth

Shes tied up and punched in the face by a man with a closed fist -

At best its borderline BDSM.

Yes, because they both seemed to get so much sexual pleasure out of it.

It a play on a typical spy convention, where it ends up she had the upper hand all along. There is nothing sexual in the scene, the costume sets up the fact that she's been caught trying to infiltrate a criminal origination at a party.You're mining into nothing. Her boobs do not bounce everywhere, heck she's not even framed in a particularly voyeuristic fashion within the scene. I'm certain the comic book family friendly film doesn't have an opening scene with a woman threatened with rape.

But hey, what do I know, you were the one to rate it as one of the greatest films ever made, maybe that's the stuff you really dig?

[Zivouhr]

On topic:
Jurassic World looks interesting, though I'm hoping we get some new story concepts too. From the trailers, it definitely has the same story line of "build a dinopark, the carnivores escape, panic and hide." Not sure how else they could do it if they're going with the Theme Park concept.

It might be cool if we had some dinosaurs that were on the hero's side for a change. Maybe get a Triceratops to fight with them against the new carnivore.

[Leonidas King]

I thought I had accidentally visited the Age of Ultron thread.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

It might be cool if we had some dinosaurs that were on the hero's side for a change. Maybe get a Triceratops to fight with them against the new carnivore.

Didn't the trailer show Chris Pratt working with raptors or some other silly thing?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

Didn't the trailer show Chris Pratt working with raptors or some other silly thing?

It shows Chris riding his motorcycle amongst a group of raptors, there's been inference that he has some influence over them, but not total control, due his work in the park.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

On topic:
Jurassic World looks interesting, though I'm hoping we get some new story concepts too. From the trailers, it definitely has the same story line of "build a dinopark, the carnivores escape, panic and hide." Not sure how else they could do it if they're going with the Theme Park concept.

It might be cool if we had some dinosaurs that were on the hero's side for a change. Maybe get a Triceratops to fight with them against the new carnivore.

In many ways it will be a repeat of the first, and the second and third, movies. Inevitably a Jurassic Park movie will always be a bit "I've seen this before" because it will always end with people running from dinosaurs. I don't see this as a problem, because all franchises and genres have certain established story conventions they don't stray from. You can't go into a Mad Max or Fast and Furious movie expecting to not see any car chases and stuff like that, like you can't expect a western to skip cowboys with guns, or a Hobbit or Lord of the Rings movie where the heroes don't have endless encounters with Orcs. Certain genres, certain stories, are expected to deliver certain things, and when it comes to Jurassic Park that's the "dinosaurs chase and kill people" element.

There are pretty strong hints that the human characters will pit some dinosaurs against each other. It's believed both the raptors and the T. rex will fight the Indominus rex, the hybrid that's basically going to serve as the villain of the story.

Originally Posted by Leonidas_King

I thought I had accidentally visited the Age of Ultron thread.

So true, even the feminist debate is something that belongs more in the superhero threads on this forum.

Originally Posted by GC Riot

Didn't the trailer show Chris Pratt working with raptors or some other silly thing?

Not in the way people train dogs and other domesticated animals like that, it's more like what people in real life do with animals like tigers, lions, bears, etc. It's possible, if you raise them from birth, to form a sort of bond with them. But it's very risky, and there are several examples of it going very wrong. Colin Trevorrow, the director, has talked about this and explained it's based on that kind of thing more than it's a "owner and pet" type of relationship.

Personally I don't think it's silly at all, because it's a concept taken straight out of our own reality and it's one of those things that helps remind us these are animals and not mindless, bloodthirsty beasts. Something I think the first two movies did pretty well but the third one seemed to forget.

[Falaskan]

I'm not expecting this to rise above or even parallel the first movie, tho I was hoping it would. Surely it will be the best in the effects department, but it has more of a tone like the 3rd flop than anything.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

I'm not expecting this to rise above or even parallel the first movie, tho I was hoping it would. Surely it will be the best in the effects department, but it has more of a tone like the 3rd flop than anything.

Anyone expecting this to be as good or better than the first film are setting themselves up for disappointment. I think those kinds of expectations are unfair when the original is as good as it is, and are a major reason why a lot of sequels get a rep as being much worse than they actually are, because they are judged against originals that were so good. Held to impossible standards, basically.

I'm trying to be realistic and am expecting something mediocre at worst, decent or pretty good at best. I'll be shocked if it's actually awful or amazing. I hope for a fun movie, but I'll judge it on its own terms, I won't view it as a failure just because it's inferior to the original. As long as it's on par with or maybe slightly better than The Lost World I'll be happy.