Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I remember leaving the theater in 1999 thinking Phantom Menace was amazing. Then, the slow, painful comedown from the hype and franchise worship of the next few months... Then the DVD came out and I was firmly in the "this is crap" camp. I see the same kind of thing going on with Jurassic World lately.

You can blame that on internet cynicism or being a sheep if you want, but I legitimately think it's just that love of a franchise covers up flaws for a while, then you slowly realize what you actually think.

Clones and Revenge I have come around to like MORE since my first viewing.

I think part of it is also that the finales of all the movies are pretty good-- Episode I's Duel of the Fates battle, Episode II when the clones show up and all hell breaks loose, etc. It left you with something positive, so it took a few viewings to realize that most of it was junk (IMO).

I do remember telling my friends at school that Episode I was "pretty good" and they should go see it. They felt the same way, and then later we all watched it again on VHS together and were laughing and commenting on how bad it was.

Personally I initially thought "Clones" was a much better movie when I first saw it, probably because there was more action and it didn't have little kid Anakin or much Jar Jar. I guess it felt a little more "Star Warsey". In retrospect I think the movie is almost if not equally bad as Episode I, though maybe not quite as overall dull and boring.

Revenge of the Sith is easily my favorite prequel, but even then the problems with the characterization and rushed plot-points of the finale wear at me a bit more and more each time I watch it. Generally I think it's a solid movie, Lucas directs it with a bit more energy and focus than the first two, but IMO it really starts to fall apart starting with that laughably corny scene with Mace Windu fighting Palpatine.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

EricJ and Nada in the same year. Thanks, mods...I know you don't enjoy doing it, but thanks.

Back on topic, is it true opening night IMAX showings are now going for $800 dollars? I've got marathon tix (non IMAX, all seven movies), and then a second showing of The Force Awakens in laser (non-IMAX) right after. I won't see SW7 in 3D IMAX until Saturday. Imagine buying a $16 ticket and then selling it for $800...

I hope every one of these people get stuck with the ticket. Anyone who buys it for $800 is an idiot. What's so important about seeing it the first night or even the first weekend. It's going to be the same movie that coming Monday and Tuesday. Even if it does spectacularly well, it's going to be playing on so many multiplex screens that I really don't think it's going to be hard to see after the first weekend. IMAX will be a bit harder, but after the first two weekends, I think they'll be plenty of seats available.

I might have mentioned this already, but the original Star Wars opened in May and I didn't see it until November or December because I saw it AFTER I saw Close Encounters and that opened in November.

[Geoff D]

Sith's got one of the greatest moments of any Star Wars film IMO: when Anakin and Padme are looking out across Coruscant, seemingly at each other, with that creepy music and Anakin shedding a tear as he realises what he must do to save his wife. I like Sith quite a lot but that bit in particular kills me every time, as does Obi-Wan's "I'm so sorry" to Padme, again with the music swelling up.

I think that's another reason why I dislike Clones so much, John Williams' score was absolutely destroyed by Lucas and Burtt (the former because he simply couldn't nail down his edit until the last possible second and the latter because he's a **** who only cares about his precious sound effects) but there's some terrific stuff throughout Sith and it raises the movie another notch or two.

That's what's gonna be so cool about Ep VII, JJ had Burtt on a tight leash on the Star Trek movies - y'know, you could actually hear Giacchino's wonderful scores - and I don't expect this one to be any different. Incidentally, I'd be very happy if Giacchino (an Oscar-winner himself) took over scoring duties for SW when Jazzy Johnny goes to that great orchestra pit in the sky.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Disney doesn't care about the box office for Marvel, Piixar or Star Wars. They care about the licensing profits for characters on merchandise.

IMO, that's a ridiculous statement. The corporation cares about all forms of revenue. I happen to work developing both rights management and product licensing software, so I'm very familiar with that business.

Let's say Star Wars does $800m worldwide. That makes rentals about $400 million. For Disney to take in $400 million in licensing, the licensees would have to sell $4 billion in product. I doubt that's happening. If it were, there wouldn't be so many toy and clothing companies in deep trouble.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sith's got one of the greatest moments of any Star Wars film IMO: when Anakin and Padme are looking out across Coruscant, seemingly at each other, with that creepy music and Anakin shedding a tear as he realises what he must do to save his wife. I like Sith quite a lot but that bit in particular kills me every time, as does Obi-Wan's "I'm so sorry" to Padme, again with the music swelling up.

I think that's another reason why I dislike Clones so much, John Williams' score was absolutely destroyed by Lucas and Burtt (the former because he simply couldn't nail down his edit until the last possible second and the latter because he's a **** who only cares about his precious sound effects) but there's some terrific stuff throughout Sith and it raises the movie another notch or two.

That's what's gonna be so cool about Ep VII, JJ had Burtt on a tight leash on the Star Trek movies - y'know, you could actually hear Giacchino's wonderful scores - and I don't expect this one to be any different. Incidentally, I'd be very happy if Giacchino (an Oscar-winner himself) took over scoring duties for SW when Jazzy Johnny goes to that great orchestra pit in the sky.

Personally I would like John Powell to take over but Giacchino will do fine. Alexandre Desplat is doing the score for Rogue One: A Star Wars Story.

[DisneyBlu]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Incidentally, I'd be very happy if Giacchino (an Oscar-winner himself) took over scoring duties for SW when Jazzy Johnny goes to that great orchestra pit in the sky.

Just the thought makes me sad. Williams is, in my opinion, the finest composer of all time. Not just movies, but ever. His work is magical. I love it.

But Giacchino has always been my "replacement" pick, too. That's why I was glad he got the Jurassic World gig -- he's as close as you can get to Williams. He's easily the best choice to 'take over' Star Wars, whether it be with Episode 10 or what have you.

I saw Star Wars in concert years ago and Williams' music played by a live orchestra in an arena was a great experience. It was accompanied by scenes from the films on giant screens, and it was really the best way to experience Williams' iconic scores. Hearing his iconic Star Wars theme boom to life on screen when The Force Awakens starts is going to be one of the best parts of the movie.

[sandman slim]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I remember leaving the theater in 1999 thinking Phantom Menace was amazing. Then, the slow, painful comedown from the hype and franchise worship of the next few months... Then the DVD came out and I was firmly in the "this is crap" camp. I see the same kind of thing going on with Jurassic World lately.

I actually like TPM. Jake Lloyd can't act, Jar Jar is annoying, but the movie is actually pretty good. The pod race was outstanding, any scenes with Darth Maul... I like it.

Don't get the hate for Jurassic World, either. Watched it three times this week.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by sandman slim

I actually like TPM. Jake Lloyd can't act, Jar Jar is annoying, but the movie is actually pretty good. The pod race was outstanding, any scenes with Darth Maul... I like it.

Don't get the hate for Jurassic World, either. Watched it three times this week.

I like Jurassic World well enough-- it was the fun entertaining sequel I thought the other ones weren't. That being said, I still thought it didn't even touch the original, and I was surprised at how successful it was. It didn't really have the suspense of the original at all, plus I had an issue with the over-use of cgi for all of the dinosaurs, which kind of annoyed me and pulled me out of the movie a bit.


As for TPM, I can't agree with you there-- even back when I first saw it and thought I "kinda liked it," I found the pod race sequence to quickly get boring and tedious. It goes on even longer in the DVD cut onward...

My overall feelings about TPM is it has some annoying characters and writing and is largely a very dull movie until the end. Attack of the Clones wasn't quite as boring and tedious per se, but the "bad" scenes and writing are far worse than anything in Phantom Menace. So they kind of balance out as equally bad movies in different ways IMO.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

IMO, that's a ridiculous statement. The corporation cares about all forms of revenue. I happen to work developing both rights management and product licensing software, so I'm very familiar with that business.

Let's say Star Wars does $800m worldwide. That makes rentals about $400 million. For Disney to take in $400 million in licensing, the licensees would have to sell $4 billion in product. I doubt that's happening. If it were, there wouldn't be so many toy and clothing companies in deep trouble.

Allow me to rephrase -- Disney's priority with ESPN, Marvel, LucasFilm, their own films, and Pixar is merchandise license profits.

[toddly6666]

If people hate Adam Driver because he seems like such a hipster, it's because he's played that character so well in Girls and that Ben Stiller film. He's a great actor and has played other roles. When he was in Lincoln I didnt think "there's that hipster", I thought that this was an actor with amazing presence that would get big someday.


Back to the prequel talk again eh? Entertaining but each prequel had some element that ruined the whole movie:

1. Phantom Menace
Awesomeness: Rick Olie, Liam Neeson, Darth Maul, Sebulba, Palpatine, pod racing
Ruining scenes: obvious green screen, Jake Loyd, Jar Jar, battle droids, video game cgi green screen Gungan vs Droids battle

2. Attack of the Clones
Awesomeness: Blade Runner opening scene, Jango Fett and son, Jango vs Obi Wan rain scene (the best scene out of all the prequels), Christopher Lee
Ruining scenes: Anakin and Padme courting and talking, obvious green screen Battle of Genosis with tons of jedis looking like awkward Cosplay folks, R2D2 flying

3. Revenge of the Sith
Awesomeness: Emperor scenes, the final hallway scene with Obi Wan, Yoda and Jimi Smitz (it looked like a scene from the OT)
Ruining scenes: Christopher Lee leaving the film too abrubtly, The awkwardly made Anakin/Mace/Emperor scene, the endless lava fight at climax, "what about Padme?....Noooooo!", video game green screen battle scenes


If only JJ Abrams had been booked to direct one prequel! He would have known how to use all these actors!

[matirocker]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

and [Ben Burt] because he's a **** who only cares about his precious sound effects

Wow.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by matirocker

Wow.

I know ~ right

[Richard Graham]

I hope Kylo Ren is all walking like a beast and chopping like a lumberjack.

Looking back, Darth Maul was kind of a prancer.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by matirocker

Wow.

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

I know ~ right

Have you not watched the documentary? He comes across as an *******. The person doing sound effects should never ALSO be in charge of the final sound mix. That's beyond a conflict of interests.

[Geoff D]

Yep. I know Burtt is a genius etc etc for all the sounds he came up which added just as much to Star Wars' indelible impact on pop culture as anything else in the movie, but as he got more power in the LFL hierarchy it seemed like ol' JW got more and more marginalised, it's pathetic how much the music gets dialled down in general in favour of the effects on his mixes for the Star Wars movies (not just the prequels but Burtt's home video mixes for the OT too).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DisneyBlu

Just the thought makes me sad. Williams is, in my opinion, the finest composer of all time. Not just movies, but ever. His work is magical. I love it.

But Giacchino has always been my "replacement" pick, too. That's why I was glad he got the Jurassic World gig -- he's as close as you can get to Williams. He's easily the best choice to 'take over' Star Wars, whether it be with Episode 10 or what have you.

I saw Star Wars in concert years ago and Williams' music played by a live orchestra in an arena was a great experience. It was accompanied by scenes from the films on giant screens, and it was really the best way to experience Williams' iconic scores. Hearing his iconic Star Wars theme boom to life on screen when The Force Awakens starts is going to be one of the best parts of the movie.

It'll be a sad day when he goes, for sure, but it'll be another excuse to listen to all the wonderful stuff he did over the years.

I saw one of those Star Wars concerts too, it was amazing having thousands of people there all soaking up that incredible music, 'twas hosted by Tony Daniels too.

[Col. Zombie]

Originally Posted by Richard Graham

I hope Kylo Ren is all walking like a beast and chopping like a lumberjack.

Looking back, Darth Maul was kind of a prancer.

I think that'd be cool. Also, the more I think about the possibility that Luke has turned to

[Show spoiler]the dark-side, and that he and Ren are working together

, the more I like it.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by sandman slim

Don't get the hate for Jurassic World, either. Watched it three times this week.

It's an enjoyable romp, if you can ignore the cheese. I'm not really saying it's bad, just that the OMG JURASSIC PARK IS BACK vibe got it a lot of money and a pass on quality appraisals, but in time people will calm down and evaluate it more rationally. It happens with all these franchise comebacks, as well as other super hyped movies like Avatar.

Even Phantom Menace, as flawed as I think it is, is a ten times better movie than real sci-fi schlock like Galaxy of Terror, Contamination or Breeders, shit I have bought because I am an idiot sci-fi nut. So it's all relative anyway. I complained about a lot in Jurassic World after seeing it in the theater, got a lot of people calling me a "hater" and other stupid internet terms, but I was first in line for the blu-ray last week. Gradient enjoyment scales!

tl;dr Jurassic World and the SW prequels were more disappointing than "bad."

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

It's an enjoyable romp, if you can ignore the cheese. I'm not really saying it's bad, just that the OMG JURASSIC PARK IS BACK vibe got it a lot of money and a pass on quality appraisals, but in time people will calm down and evaluate it more rationally. It happens with all these franchise comebacks, as well as other super hyped movies like Avatar.

Even Phantom Menace, as flawed as I think it is, is a ten times better movie than real sci-fi schlock like Galaxy of Terror, Contamination or Breeders, shit I have bought because I am an idiot sci-fi nut. So it's all relative anyway. I complained about a lot in Jurassic World after seeing it in the theater, got a lot of people calling me a "hater" and other stupid internet terms, but I was first in line for the blu-ray last week. Gradient enjoyment scales!

tl;dr Jurassic World and the SW prequels were more disappointing than "bad."

Yeah, than can happen sometimes-- I think in the case of JW I was pretty level-headed and thought it wasn't the great comeback I was hoping for, but it easily bested the other two sequels IMO, especially JP III which I thought was a 90-minute waste of time.

Although I'll contend your assessment of the prequels a bit-- I do think they were bad movies, at least the first two. Yes they're better than some b-movie schlock films from a production standpoint, but from a writing and acting point of view I think they're down there. Some of the love scenes in Attack of the Clones are so terrible that I pretty much can only compare them with the caliber of a Jr. High school play. A bad one. It's well beyond most major movies that are released, even horrible ones.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Col. Zombie

I think that'd be cool. Also, the more I think about the possibility that Luke has turned to

[Show spoiler]the dark-side, and that he and Ren are working together

, the more I like it.

Well... They're not. Lol.


Jurassic World has cheese, sure, but so does the original. Jurassic Park just happens to have better characters for the most part. They have more complete arcs.

World has a far better finale though. That fight at the end was movie magic, and was enough for me to be perfectly happy with Trevorrow getting Episode 9.