Avengers: Infinity War (2018)

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

I personally can't picture Daredevil and Jessica Jones on the screen with Cap and Iron Man. The tone of the movies and shows are so different. Granted it can be changed to make anything work, but i personally just can't picture it. To me I'd feel like taking Vic from the Shield and putting him in Bones. Both are cop shows, but the tone is vastly different from each other.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

You don't see how leaning on television shows a small portion of the audience watched harms the movies? You don't see how the movies not standing on their own as a series harms them overall and their legacy? You don't see how someone who watches the movies but not the shows might be turned off by Coulson popping in, without much story or explanation given the time limits, and tossing off some joke? "Watch our terrible Agents show on ABC for the full story kids!"

Of course it harms the movies.

I know in comics it is super normal to have tons of tie-ins and cross-overs you might (or might not) have read, but these are films. It's different. Shit, man, I don't even like that I have to know who Iron Man is to watch Cap 3.

Who says it has to lean on the shows? A brief cameo or scene isn't leaning. Here's the thing, whether you like it or not, this is a connected universe. You continually talk about how maybe this franchise isn't for you, because they don't stand on their own as films anyway because you have to watch multiple film series to keep up. You even brought it up here. There's little difference between someone who doesn't watch the Thor films or the DareDevil series. Some people don't watch parts of the MCU, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. You're acting like a small cameo would completely derail the movies, but it wouldn't. For those who are watching the Netflix shows, it would be a nice nod, while not taking anything away from the film. Again, this is being treated as a grand finale of sorts for the MCU, so I think all the heroes of the MCU should be used, in some capacity. This series is acting like a live action comic, with crosses into other films, and characters from movies into the shows. It's happened before, and eventually the characters from the shows will get to be on the big screen. This is the perfect place to do it without harming the film or the show, and acknowledging this expanded universe has grown that much.

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

I personally can't picture Daredevil and Jessica Jones on the screen with Cap and Iron Man. The tone of the movies and shows are so different. Granted it can be changed to make anything work, but i personally just can't picture it. To me I'd feel like taking Vic from the Shield and putting him in Bones. Both are cop shows, but the tone is vastly different from each other.

They don't have to be on screen together though. A scene of theme during the big battle protecting New York would be enough that wouldn't take away from anything. Knowing that there's other heroes standing against Thanos and his army and protecting civilians would be enough without it being jarring for the tone. They'll be The Defenders by that point, so they'll already have worked together. It's an easy inclusion that doesn't take away much.

Originally Posted by Zorkel567

While I would love to see both groups appear in Avengers: Infinity War, it's funny you say that nobody cares about SHIELD yet they do care about Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Going off the recent reveal of Jessica Jones' ratings, each episode averaged around 4.5 million throughout the first month of the show's release. Agents of SHIELD usually averages around 4 million or so per episode live. Take it account it's usually large jumps with DVR playback factored in, and people that watch it through Netflix, and Agents of SHIELD has a good deal more viewers than Jessica Jones.

Those recent numbers don't show anything, because they weren't true. NBC came under fire by Netflix for fabricating the information.

[Dalekbuster523Bluray]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

oh no. A 12 year old watched something for a fifteen year old! However will that child handle the three year difference!

If a 12 year old has complete access to their parents Netflix account, they can already watch things far darker and disturbing than the marvel shows. In fact, they've probably already watched them.

Yeah, that's right. Make fun of a serious issue. Those certificates are there for a reason.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

Yeah, that's right. Make fun of a serious issue. Those certificates are there for a reason.

And many times the ratings mean jack, at least over here in the states. There's no rhyme or reason to the way movies get their ratings, it's really a big joke. Until the ratings are significantly overhauled, it'll continue that way.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

Yeah, that's right. Make fun of a serious issue. Those certificates are there for a reason.

Go ahead and deflect any answer you might have of legitimate criticism of parenting why don't you. I think that's a FAR more serious issue.

[Foggy]

I watched Commando when I was six and I came out pretty ok, I think teens will be able to handle something like Daredevil and Jessica Jones. If anything, it makes for something great to move on to after the Avengers, after watching the more family friendly fare, how about something more thematically darker and more mature? Sounds like a great continuation.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Foggy

I watched Commando when I was six and I came out pretty ok, I think teens will be able to handle something like Daredevil and Jessica Jones. If anything, it makes for something great to move on to after the Avengers, after watching the more family friendly fare, how about something more thematically darker and more mature? Sounds like a great continuation.

Indeed. Dalek acts like parents can't monitor their own children too. If a kid has access to the Internet, Daredevil is the least of their concerns as far as mature content.

This discussion has been had elsewhere. Not all children are equal, and some can handle far more suggestive content than others. it's up to the parents to decide if their kid can handle it. A small scene where daredevil is there for twenty seconds isn't going to make a child become a devil worshipper.

[Zorkel567]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Those recent numbers don't show anything, because they weren't true. NBC came under fire by Netflix for fabricating the information.

Of course Netflix would deny they're true; they've been adamant about not revealing their viewing numbers. Unless they come and outright say the actual numbers, it's the best estimate of viewing to go off of. As it is, NBC sampled it similarly to how actual television ratings are sampled. Use a small group of homes, base it off their viewing habits, and use that as a way to measure for a much larger group of viewers. If regular ratings are calculated that way, I don't see why Netflix's can't be either.

[Dalekbuster523Bluray]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

Indeed. Dalek acts like parents can't monitor their own children too. If a kid has access to the Internet, Daredevil is the least of their concerns as far as mature content.

This discussion has been had elsewhere. Not all children are equal, and some can handle far more suggestive content than others. it's up to the parents to decide if their kid can handle it. A small scene where daredevil is there for twenty seconds isn't going to make a child become a devil worshipper.

It's this attitude that's the reason why there's so much law-breaking. If parents didn't let their kids watch 15 and 18 rated films or similarly play 15 and 18 rated games I strongly believe crime would be less of a problem.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by Foggy

I watched Commando when I was six and I came out pretty ok, I think teens will be able to handle something like Daredevil and Jessica Jones. If anything, it makes for something great to move on to after the Avengers, after watching the more family friendly fare, how about something more thematically darker and more mature? Sounds like a great continuation.

I watched Die Hard when i was that young too. Oh the memories.

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

It's this attitude that's the reason why there's so much law-breaking. If parents didn't let their kids watch 15 and 18 rated films or similarly play 15 and 18 rated games I strongly believe crime

Good to see Jack Thompson is still keeping busy these days.

[Elbie]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

It's this attitude that's the reason why there's so much law-breaking. If parents didn't let their kids watch 15 and 18 rated films or similarly play 15 and 18 rated games I strongly believe crime would be less of a problem.

I watched Juice when it came out (I was 7) and I've never been arrested, shot anyone, or murdered anyone! I also listened to rappers like 2Pac, Bone, and Scarface and turned out just fine running my small business. I guess my Mommy just raised me right. YAYYYY!

[Rodney-2187]

I don't think attempting to shelter children from the world is doing them any favors. Maybe try talking to them.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

It's this attitude that's the reason why there's so much law-breaking. If parents didn't let their kids watch 15 and 18 rated films or similarly play 15 and 18 rated games I strongly believe crime would be less of a problem.

What about all the crimes committed before movies and games?

[Dalekbuster523Bluray]

Originally Posted by mwynn

What about all the crimes committed before movies and games?

Same as kids playing or watching 15 or 18 rated movies, TV shows or games: bad parenting by people who should know better.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Who says it has to lean on the shows? A brief cameo or scene isn't leaning. Here's the thing, whether you like it or not, this is a connected universe. You continually talk about how maybe this franchise isn't for you, because they don't stand on their own as films anyway because you have to watch multiple film series to keep up. You even brought it up here. There's little difference between someone who doesn't watch the Thor films or the DareDevil series. Some people don't watch parts of the MCU, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. You're acting like a small cameo would completely derail the movies, but it wouldn't. For those who are watching the Netflix shows, it would be a nice nod, while not taking anything away from the film. Again, this is being treated as a grand finale of sorts for the MCU, so I think all the heroes of the MCU should be used, in some capacity. This series is acting like a live action comic, with crosses into other films, and characters from movies into the shows. It's happened before, and eventually the characters from the shows will get to be on the big screen. This is the perfect place to do it without harming the film or the show, and acknowledging this expanded universe has grown that much.

None of this really addresses what I said, it's smoke and mirrors. The crux of my point is that movies and television shows are completely different mediums. One should not lean on the other. It is a completely different thing to reference Thor or Guardians of the Galaxy than it is to reference some ABC show. A tooooooon of people seeing the Avengers movies have never watched these shows, whereas I doubt that many never saw Thor, even if they waited for a cheap rental. Different mediums should stand on their own, basically.

Considering the Marvel creative teams and executives have said pretty much the EXACT same thing in interviews, I don't think I'm being weird here.

P.S. I never say "this franchise isn't for me." Not sure where you got that. I wouldn't be in here talking about it if I didn't like the franchise.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

Originally Posted by Dalekbuster523Bluray

It's this attitude that's the reason why there's so much law-breaking. If parents didn't let their kids watch 15 and 18 rated films or similarly play 15 and 18 rated games I strongly believe crime would be less of a problem.

Movies and games do nothing to encourage violence. If anything they are a release not a cause. Look up all cases where a movie, game, or cd is linked to a violent crime and you would see that the person already had issues. A regular well adjusted child can watch Daredevil and not want to beat another kid with a stick.

[Zorkel567]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

None of this really addresses what I said, it's smoke and mirrors. The crux of my point is that movies and television shows are completely different mediums. One should not lean on the other. It is a completely different thing to reference Thor or Guardians of the Galaxy than it is to reference some ABC show. A tooooooon of people seeing the Avengers movies have never watched these shows, whereas I doubt that many never saw Thor, even if they waited for a cheap rental. Different mediums should stand on their own, basically.

Considering the Marvel creative teams and executives have said pretty much the EXACT same thing in interviews, I don't think I'm being weird here.

P.S. I never say "this franchise isn't for me." Not sure where you got that. I wouldn't be in here talking about it if I didn't like the franchise.

They may be in different mediums, but they're all one universe. It makes sense for characters to crossover. And no, just because a TV character appears in a film doesn't mean that the films suddenly become impossible to follow. For instance, Sif appeared in two episodes of Agents of SHIELD, and for those who hadn't seen the Thor films, the show was still perfectly understandable. Same for appearances by Jasper Sitwell, Maria Hill, and Nick Fury. So if they were to have TV characters appear in the films, whether Netflix, or ABC, or both, it IS possible to do so in a manner that doesn't require locking out all viewers who have never seen either Agents of SHIELD or Daredevil, or Jessica Jones, or Luke Cage, or Iron Fist or the Defenders. And including appearances by them could interest viewers enough that they may go and seek out those shows, which would be a win for Marvel and Disney.

If an entire Avengers movie was built upon the events of an Agents of SHIELD storyline, then that could lead to a 'lock-out' of viewers. But having them appear doesn't feel any different that the original intention of having Captain Marvel appear already suited up in Avengers: Age of Ultron without a detailed bac-story or introduction in the films. It wouldn't have caused a lock-out for those who don't know her from the comics

Plus, Kevin Feige has stated that TV characters WILL eventually appear in the films, sooner or later. Avengers: Infinity War feels like the perfect time to start.

Will The Marvel television characters or storylines ever appear in the Marvel movies?

Kevin Feige: I think its inevitable as we’re plotting the movies going forward and they’re plotting the shows. The schedules do not always quite match up to make that possible. Its easier for them, because they are more nimble and faster to produce things, which is one of the reasons you see the repercussions of Winter Soldier or Age of Ultron in the shows. But going forward as there continues to be more shows and casting such great actors as they have, particularly with Daredevil, that may occur. But a lot of it is, by the time we start doing a movie they might be midway through (filming) a season and by the time the movie comes out they’ll be done with their second season and starting a third season. So finding timing on that isn’t always easy.

Would they keep the casting from a Marvel television show if the character appears in a movie?

Kevin Feige: Probably, it’d probably be a cool thing to do. (laughs) But that particular scenario has not come up yet.

http://www.slashfilm.com/kevin-feige...-event-part-2/

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Zorkel567

They may be in different mediums, but they're all one universe.

Which I fundamentally dislike, which is why we disagree and a lot of people here assume I don't like the movies (which is silly). I am glad you guys like this stuff, but I think connecting movies to TV shows is utterly stupid, and there's a reason they him-haw around about it in interviews and have never actually done it.

P.S. I like how you turned his "probably eventually" into "WILL."

P.P.S. The Russos and Whedon have all said it won't happen, and they write the Avengers movies, so... we shall see.

[Zorkel567]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Which I fundamentally dislike, which is why we disagree and a lot of people here assume I don't like the movies (which is silly). I am glad you guys like this stuff, but I think connecting movies to TV shows is utterly stupid, and there's a reason they him-haw around about it in interviews and have never actually done it.

P.S. I like how you turned his "probably eventually" into "WILL."

P.P.S. The Russos and Whedon have all said it won't happen, and they write the Avengers movies, so... we shall see.

Whedon can say whatever he wants, but he's no longer involved so it's not up to him. And Feige's the main power behind Marvel. The Russos can say what they want or what they think, but if Feige decides to include them, then it'll happen. Other directors have already left because they didn't want to make their movies become beholden to the shared universe.

Feige said it's that he thinks it's an inevitability. Inevitability means will, and if Fiege thinks it'll happen, it will. He thought a Black Panther movie would happen, he thought a Doctor Strange movie would happen, etc. He seems to make things happen.

They've never actually done it because the television shows are a recent move. Daredevil isn't even a year old yet, and Jessica Jones is only a couple months old, so it wouldn't make sense for either to appear in films until they've been established, and not just forced into one. Agents of SHIELD have been around longer, but they had to make sure the series would survive first and foremost, and it was most likely scripted too early for them to do much. Agent Carter's set in the past so there's not much they can do there, outside of having her appear in both Ant-Man and Avengers: Age of Ultron post-Agent Carter Season 1.