Still not convinced

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

I bought a HDR set by mistake can I join you?

Welcome, dvdmike. Coffee and doughnuts are by the side door. This is a safe space.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Um...I reckon was one of the first in the UK to actually own a 4K TV back in July 2013. While my steam-driven SDR set has been taken over by you brash HDR hot-rodders with your go-faster paint jobs I'd say that I'm as entitled as anyone to at least "hang out" in here and let my feelings be known, perhaps even more so because I'm more "day one" than most people up in here so I've watched with fascination as the UHD "story" has unfolded since.

Am I now behind the times with HDR and UHD Blu? You betcha. But give it a month or so - until the actual players get, y'know, released over here* - and I can at least rectify the latter part of those gaps in my knowledge. Hell, when I get the Panny player I can then indulge my own sense of smug superiority over the people who don't own one, then I'll really be a true member of the UHD forum section!

* Sure, importing the US player is fine for those chronic updater types who've got a wodge burning a hole in their pockets and who simply MUST have it now, but I'm not jumping through those hoops just for a bloody Samsung. YMMV.

Not referring to you. You at least have an open mind.

Even without hdr. A true resolution Increase with WCG and increased bit rate will provide a better picture presentation.

But to say blu ray "isnt inferior" is rediculous. Yes it's still good, but it's now inferior just like DVD is to blu ray though at different magnitudes.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ray0414

But to say blu ray "isnt inferior" is rediculous. Yes it's still good, but it's now inferior just like DVD is to blu ray though at different magnitudes.

UHD always has the potential to be superior but, in practice, there will be (and already are!) UHD discs that are not superior in all ways to their Blu-ray counterparts.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

UHD always has the potential to be superior but, in practice, there will be (and already are!) UHD discs that are not superior in all ways to their Blu-ray counterparts.

Now you're falling into the trap of nitpicking launch titles.

I'm talking big picture and as a whole.

So out of all the 25 or so launch titles, cam you name which ones are better quality on the blu ray counterpart? Sorry I mean as a whole, not 1 that is better in 1 area out of 10 areas.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Now you're falling into the trap of nitpicking launch titles.

I'm not nitpicking launch titles; I'm noting the unhealthy trend of applying HDR grades where they don't belong.

Mad Max: Fury Road is an example of a release in which the Blu-ray release is more accurately colored (and, thus, better) than the UHD release.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I'm not nitpicking launch titles; I'm noting the unhealthy trend of applying HDR grades where they don't belong.

Mad Max: Fury Road is an example of a release in which the Blu-ray release is more accurately colored (and, thus, better) than the UHD release.

I look forward to seeing how The Karate Kid (remake) looks on UHD. The regular bluray was stunning. One of the best discs I have seen projected.

[Adrian Wright]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

accurately colored (and, thus, better) than the UHD release.

And where is the conclusive proof from the film-maker that the UHD release is in-accurately coloured when compared to the standard res BD? If you could point me in the direction of the article, that would be great

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

And where is the conclusive proof from the film-maker that the UHD release is in-accurately coloured when compared to the standard res BD? If you could point me in the direction of the article, that would be great

It doesn't come from the filmmaker or any given single article (though there is likely an article in a trade somewhere, describing release formatting for the movie), but the parallel facts that the theatrical DCP was not HDR-graded and the UHD release is.

[Adrian Wright]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It doesn't come from the filmmaker or any given single article (though there is likely an article in a trade somewhere, describing release formatting for the movie), but the parallel facts that the theatrical DCP was not HDR-graded and the UHD release is.

So the naysayers with the pitchforks scream inaccuracy, though they do not know what they are comparing this to? I would say form your own opinion once you seen this in your own home with your own equipment. There are that many variables with regards to displays, settings on displays settings on the player etc that who knows what is right?

If it looks good to me, that is all that matters. After all, it is me that is watching it

[saprano]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Not referring to you. You at least have an open mind.

Even without hdr. A true resolution Increase with WCG and increased bit rate will provide a better picture presentation.

But to say blu ray "isnt inferior" is rediculous. Yes it's still good, but it's now inferior just like DVD is to blu ray though at different magnitudes.

You want it to be inferior to please yourself. It's not wrong to say one thing is good in its own right while at the same time another is technically better. This isn't DVD to blu no matter what you say.


And i've always praised the benefits of better color, compression, and higher bitrate without the need for HDR or even 4K resolution. I've been doing that WAY before you joined this forum. Of course you and certain others don't notice that because that's a positive coming from me and that's goes against the nonsense you believe i'm doing.

You seriously need to check yourself. I can't have a normal conversation without you or the other guy jumping in and complaining about my post for a BS reason.

Please, the both of you put me on ignore and don't ever respond to my post again. If you continue to do so i'm going to start reporting you both. Everything i say you guys cry about it and turn it into an argument. How old are you?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

So the naysayers with the pitchforks scream inaccuracy, though they do not know what they are comparing this to?

No, the naysayers with the pitchforks scream inaccuracy precisely because they do know what they are comparing this to.

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

There are that many variables with regards to displays, settings on displays settings on the player etc that who knows what is right?

You don't necessarily have to know exactly what is right to know that the UHD, necessarily, is not right.

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

If it looks good to me, that is all that matters. After all, it is me that is watching it

Well, of course, it's your experience and your money- do what you prefer with both.

Personally, I watch movies because I'm interested in the expressions the filmmakers want to make to me. I don't want a third-party interfering with their ability to present that expression to me, so I don't care that it (anecdotally) looks "good" to me; I care that it accurately presents the filmmakers' art to me. After all, if we're going to re-write what the movie is saying, why are we even bothering to watch it in the first place?

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It doesn't come from the filmmaker or any given single article (though there is likely an article in a trade somewhere, describing release formatting for the movie), but the parallel facts that the theatrical DCP was not HDR-graded and the UHD release is.

Very few of the UHD BD were HDR graded for theatrical showings, and those that were mostly played in non-HDR screens anyway. So this whole concept of accuracy to the theatrical showings opens up a can of worms. And besides that you have a lack of calibration standards on UHD BD and not only that on some UHD TVs as well, which will show slightly different colors and contrast depending on a calibrator's personal preference.

Personally I try to adjust my TV to where the colors look as close to the BD as possible but I am not going to freak out if an explosion is going to have a different shade than the BD. That explosion on the UHD is probably more accurate anyway because it shows the greater color spectrum that's not possible on the BD and is already there on film/digital. I want what's more accurate to the source and more of it too. Don't want to be limited to what was shown in the theater because of its own color/contrast limitations. I rarely go to the theater anyway. But I respect your opinion though. But IMO if the filmmakers are OK with the regrade than so am I. I haven't heard anything to the contrary regarding Mad Max or any other UHD title for that matter.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Adrian Wright

So the naysayers with the pitchforks scream inaccuracy, though they do not know what they are comparing this to? I would say form your own opinion once you seen this in your own home with your own equipment. There are that many variables with regards to displays, settings on displays settings on the player etc that who knows what is right?

If it looks good to me, that is all that matters. After all, it is me that is watching it

And some people think Vivid modes on their cheap LEDs looks good to them and that's all that matters.

Blu-rays are mastered to Rec 709. There is the high definition video standard by which to watch them; your display should be calibrated to rec 709 if you want to watch how the filmmaker intended the content to be watched. This is how you watch accurate color, black level, etc. There is a little room/leeway with gamma, but there is a real, practiced standard we've had for over a decade now.

There are NO standards AT ALL for calibrating HDR. And as such, this is causing other factors of the image to not be accurate. This is a fact. Again, at least with the Blu-ray, I can see what is intended. And who knows how they are even mastering these UHD discs! I am having real doubts about things I have seen and heard (including from some insiders).

UHD BD is starting to smell more and more like a marketing scheme in many ways as some cynics said it would be long ago. I thought they were full of BS, but they might just be on to something.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Very few of the UHD BD were HDR graded for theatrical showings, and those that were mostly played in non-HDR screens anyway. So this whole concept of accuracy to the theatrical showings opens up a can of worms. And besides that you have a lack of calibration standards on UHD BD and not only that on some UHD TVs as well, which will show slightly different colors and contrast depending on a calibrator's personal preference.

Personally I try to adjust my TV to where the colors look as close to the BD as possible but I am not going to freak out if an explosion is going to have a different shade than the BD. That explosion on the UHD is probably more accurate anyway because it shows the greater color spectrum that's not possible on the BD and is already there on film/digital. I want what's more accurate to the source and more of it too. Don't want to be limited to what was shown in the theater because of its own color/contrast limitations. I rarely go to the theater anyway. But I respect your opinion though. But IMO if the filmmakers are OK with the regrade than so am I. I haven't heard anything to the contrary regarding Mad Max or any other UHD title for that matter.

Unless your display is capable of 100% DCI-P3 and calibrated to such (or really rec 2020 for UHD BD), you are not anywhere near see more accurate colors on the UHD BD. Don't try and fool yourself. Showing more color means nothing...I can watch Blu-rays in DCI with "more color" but that doesn't mean anything really because it's wrong.

If you like the format better or think it looks better, fine, but UHD BD and calibration/accuracy should not be in the same sentence today. Let's see if that changes at some point.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Unless your display is capable of 100% DCI-P3 and calibrated to such, you are not anywhere near see more accurate colors on the UHD BD.

Don't fool yourself. If you like the format better or think it looks better, fine, but UHD BD and calibration/accuracy should not be in the same sentence today. Let's see if that changes at some point.

I sorry you are wrong. Saying my colors are way off when you haven't even seen it is a stupid thing to say. Why do people who haven't seen this stuff at home for themselves proclaim themselves to be such experts on everyone else's equipment and on the UHD BD format as well?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

I sorry you are wrong. Saying my colors are way off when you haven't even seen it is a stupid thing to say. Why do people who haven't seen this stuff for themselves proclaim themselves to be such experts on everyone else's equipment?

What you are saying is stupid. I don't have to see anything.

Calibration is about a standard.

Has your display been calibrated for rec 2020? Yes or No?

And if so, do you understand your colors are off anyway because it CANNOT BE CALIBRATED FOR HDR. lol

Let's stop with the rationalizing about accuracy and calibration, please.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Showing more color means nothing...I can watch Blu-rays in DCI with "more color" but that doesn't mean anything really because it's wrong.

You seem to be clueless about HDR. Most areas have the same colors and contrast (depending on the movie). The main difference is in the lighting. If you think I'm watching blown out colors then you're wrong. Very wrong.

[HeavyHitter]

Bottom line:

As of today, a properly calibrated display to rec 709 with Blu-ray is a more accurate way to watch the movie than it is with UHD BD. Again, it's because of standards. There are no standards for UHD and HDR. It is impossible to see how the disc is meant to be - and again, how they even mastered these discs is a huge question as we are seeing how some of the Lionsgate titles have incorrect black levels. It's ridiculous really.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

You seem to be clueless about HDR. Most areas have the same colors and contrast (depending on the movie). The main difference is in the lighting. If you think I'm watching blown out colors then you're wrong. Very wrong.

No, you are.

And you evaded my question and made my point.

Your set-up is not calibrated and you are not watching UHD BD according to any standard.

Thank you.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

What you are saying is stupid. I don't have to see anything.

That seems to be the prevailing sentiment among the non-owners who think they know it all. No point in me continuing to reason with closed minds (and eyes).