The Shining (1980)

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by OgamiittoMcJ

Kubrick endorsed the cuts not the studio

Kubrick said that Europeans were more smart than Americans and would not need the additional stuff to get used to the background of the story.

The shorter and tighter European version seems to be the preferred version by most reviewers

Assumption?

[OgamiittoMcJ]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Assumption?

nope even Kubrick thought so
or he wouldn't have made any cuts

[Vidya]

Originally Posted by OgamiittoMcJ

Kubrick endorsed the cuts not the studio

Kubrick said that Europeans were more smart than Americans and would not need the additional stuff to get used to the background of the story.

The shorter and tighter European version seems to be the preferred version by most reviewers

Where are you getting this information?

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by OgamiittoMcJ

nope even Kubrick thought so
or he wouldn't have made any cuts

Uh huh.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Plenty of the overtones including abuse and alcoholism are still in the Euro cut, it's just not spelled out as it is in the US version.

Whenever I watch the US version, all the exposition and other minor scenes "ease" me in, while the Euro cut always has me feeling unsettled which I thinks makes for a better experience.

[Vidya]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Seriously? Them watching TV enhances the sense of isolation? The scene where Wendy is making dinner and watching the news, that is what is happening in the outside world enhances the sense of isolation?? As opposed to if they never had access to TV at all where the outside world might as well not exist??? Okay...

I feel that the television bits enhance the sense of isolation. There is not much for the Torrance family to do up there nor are there any other people to interact with. The feeling of boredom and isolation is palpable in these scenes.

I also like how the TV scenes sort of tie in with Danny's comment early in the movie about the Donner party. He mentions that he saw it on TV:
Danny: Don't worry, Mom. I know all about cannibalism. I saw it on TV.
Jack: See, it's okay. He saw it on the television.

The way Jack says, "He saw it on the televiosn", with that sinister smile of his, always gives me chills.

[MifuneFan]

The TV isn't plugged into anything, so really it's the house transmitting messages to them, and knowing that creates a bigger perception of them being cut off from the outside world

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by Vidya

This seems unlikely. I would guess that Warner Bros. had something to do with the cuts made. Probably due to the film having a less than stellar initial reception.

My understanding is that it was all Kubrick. He was heartbroken at the reception American audiences gave the film (if you think everyone thought it was a modern classic upon it's release, you'd be sorely mistaken). He was determined to make a better film out of the European cut. But the American cut was his first vision of the film (minus the ending he had cut the first week, of course).

[crazybeats]

The reason for the missing 2 minutes is Kubrick removed the scene with Wendy and Danny at the hospital just before the final credits. This scene has never been seen since the preview screenings but there's no doubt it exists in the Warner Bros archives along with many other film elements from Kubrick's movies aswell as the Kubrick family's own personal archives and it will never be released because it was Stanley's wish for it not to be released. Warner Bros even have the 18 minutes missing from 2001 in pristine condition in their vaults and have said it wont be released.



It's always nice to see behind the scenes footage. Vivian Kubrick shot 16 hours worth of footage from The Shining. The last I heard was that the sound tapes for much of it couldn't be found but no doubt she would have captured many alternate takes and deleted scenes. It's just a shame we wont be seeing much of it and with Jack Nicholson getting older it's absolutely shameful that Warner Bros never made a real effort on a release for this movie. I'm all for Kubrick's wishes but come on, one of the best horror films of all time. Get Jack Nicholson in for a commentary and interviews while we still have the legend here with us, get Shelley interviewed, get the original hospital ending put back in, get into those archives, get Vivian's 16 hours of footage and do a proper release for this movie. Do it right. The film deserves that.

[MifuneFan]

^Those 2 mins refer to when the film was 146 mins, and not the 142 vs 144 discussion.

[Vidya]

Does the UK blu-ray release retain the original Saul Bass WB logo at the start of the film? If I remember correctly, the US blu has the original logo replaced with the WB shield.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Vidya

Does the UK blu-ray release retain the original Saul Bass WB logo at the start of the film? If I remember correctly, the US blu has the original logo replaced with the WB shield.

No, unfortunately it's also the more modern WB logo with the sky in the background. I think Criterion's releases such as Badlands are the only ones where we have the pleasure of seeing that logo in HD because mainstream Warner clearly doesn't give a **** about such details.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

No, unfortunately it's also the more modern WB logo with the sky in the background. I think Criterion's releases such as Badlands are the only ones where we have the pleasure of seeing that logo in HD because mainstream Warner clearly doesn't give a **** about such details.

Off the top of my head I can say that WB's old Blu-ray of Enter the Dragon has it, also Magnum Force.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by OgamiittoMcJ

Kubrick endorsed the cuts not the studio

Kubrick said that Europeans were more smart than Americans and would not need the additional stuff to get used to the background of the story.

The shorter and tighter European version seems to be the preferred version by most reviewers

Actually he cut the Shelly Duvall stuff to because he hated working with her, and hated her performance.

The shorter cut was known to be HIS preferred version of the film, but I don't know about "most reviewers."

[Eye Candy]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

^Those 2 mins refer to when the film was 146 mins, and not the 142 vs 144 discussion.

Thank You

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by OgamiittoMcJ

Kubrick endorsed the cuts not the studio

Kubrick said that Europeans were more smart than Americans and would not need the additional stuff to get used to the background of the story.

The shorter and tighter European version seems to be the preferred version by most reviewers

America's got more patents than the rest of the world combined. That's mad creativity, innovation and intelligence. I hardly think that Kubrick thinks Europeans are smarter than Americans

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by OgamiittoMcJ

Kubrick said that Europeans were more smart than Americans and would not need the additional stuff to get used to the background of the story.

I've read this many times before on the internet, but before believing it, I'd like to know the source. So...do you have a source for this statement, please?

[Eny-]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

America's got more patents than the rest of the world combined. That's mad creativity, innovation and intelligence. I hardly think that Kubrick thinks Europeans are smarter than Americans

Although that's a stupid generalization and having more patents doesn't mean squat, truth is that the best "American" thinkers were Europeans that fled Europe. Specially this intellectual migration in the 30's, are responsible for the domination of American science in general after World War II. This lay the ground to further dominance.

These scientists many of who were Jewish, included physicists Niels Bohr, Albert Einstein, James Franck or Eugene Wigner. Or second generation Europeans, like Oppenheimer.

Also, if not for the two great wars that destroyed Europe, the US wouldn't become one of the World superpowers. Not only the US never had a war in their territory (not counting civil wars) but Europe had to pay large sums of money to the US for many years it's reconstruction.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by Eny-

Although that's a stupid generalization and having more patents doesn't mean squat, truth is that the best "American" thinkers were Europeans that fled Europe. This intellectual migration in the 30's, are responsible for the domination of American science in general after World War II. This lay the ground to further dominance.

These scientists many of who were Jewish, included physicists Niels Bohr, Albert Einstein, James Franck or Eugene Wigner. Or second generation Europeans, like Oppenheimer.

Also, if not for the two great wars that destroyed Europe, the US wouldn't become one of the World superpowers. Not only the US never had a war in their territory (not counting civil wars) but Europe had to pay large sums of money to the US for many years it's reconstruction.

All of America is people from other countries. That's why it's America.
But I'm specifically talking about in the 80's when Kubrick may or may not have said that.

To say the European version is shorter because European folk are smarter (or the Americans are dumber) is no different than saying the European version is shorter because the European folk can't sit through the longer version because their mouths hurt due to having worse teeth.

[Eny-]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

All of America is people from other countries. That's why it's America.
But I'm specifically talking about in the 80's when Kubrick may or may not have said that.

To say the European version is shorter because European folk are smarter (or the Americans are dumber) is no different than saying the European version is shorter because the European folk can't sit through the longer version because their mouths hurt due to having worse teeth.

Of course, I was referring to the patents bit.

The rest is stupid. I seriously doubt Kubrick ever said that. He might have excised more footage after the US release to make it more leaner. Just like the final scene he cut before release.