GoodFellas 4K UHD (1990)

[Geoff D]

Sure, 1080p Blu-rays also come from those same negative restorations. But I'd argue that the process of converting down for 1080p - meaning either grain management or the simple effect of having 75% less spatial resolution - means that the shitload of unintended grain is rolled off to the point where it still appears to be thoroughly filmic but doesn't become an outright distraction. I could watch Arrow's restoration of To Live and Die in L.A. until the cows come home because I think it's beyond gorgeous, but I genuinely dread to think what it'd look like in HDR UHD.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And just to add: older movies remastered from the negative are put out as 4K DCPs (in SDR, natch) and no-one complains about the grain in the cinema but projection is a different beast to direct-view displays, and always has been.

Exactly, projection and TV screens are different worlds

[bruceames]

Yeah will be interesting to see how much "grain management" they use on those grainy catalog movies that make it to UHD. Sounds like on Goodfellas they didn't use much if any. It was that way will many of the early HD DVD/BD titles as well. Then Universal got different ideas and we know how that turned out. And I know Warner always gets a pass but I know they used a shitload of DNR on Wizard and GWTW. Don't see hardly any grain in those movies. I would like to see the detail that was scrubbed away but ignorance is bliss I guess.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Whaddaya know, Geoff's armchair powers are occasionally correct. For 35mm movies of a certain vintage you're just gonna get more grain rather than more detail when moving into 4K. The film fanatics won't want to hear that, but it's the truth.

I haven't picked up any version of GF in HD, so this will be a welcome purchase (the first time because it had lossy audio, the second because I knew it would come out in 4k eventually).

What a great film with so many cinematographically awesome moments and Joe Pesci is an absolute riot in this.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by bruceames

What do you want them to do with the grain, scrub it away? We're already seeing movies in higher resolution that were never "intended" to be seen that way. It's ironic that some people are ok with revealing more of the resolution in the source but not the additional dynamic range or wcg elements.

I still think forcing HDR on movies made before 2015 is not a good idea especially if they were shot on film.

About WCG, I don't know how much difference can it make alone, without HDR, as this UHD format implies that these two should always be used together.

4K content exists in two forms at home: SDR BT.709 or HDR BT.2020 (container for DCI-P3)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Yeah will be interesting to see how much "grain management" they use on those grainy catalog movies that make it to UHD. Sounds like on Goodfellas they didn't use much if any. It was that way will many of the early HD DVD/BD titles as well. Then Universal got different ideas and we know how that turned out.

True enough, but them jokers are still pulling all kinds of tricks (like with Oblivion, and apparently Bourne Identity uses the old 1080p telecine upscaled ) so they've always been in a class of their own when it comes to class-a **** ups.

But grain management is far, far, FAR more advanced than ye olde DNR from way back when, I'm reminded of that every single time I watch the Blu-ray of Aliens (which was processed by Lowry) as it's one of the most stunning Blus in my entire collection, it's incredibly detailed but it never loses the veneer of true film-like quality. Alas, not everyone has the money for a Lowry upgrade which is where buffoons like Universal come in

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

True enough, but them jokers are still pulling all kinds of tricks (like with Oblivion, and apparently Bourne Identity uses the old 1080p telecine upscaled ) so they've always been in a class of their own when it comes to class-a **** ups.

But grain management is far, far, FAR more advanced than ye olde DNR from way back when, I'm reminded of that every single time I watch the Blu-ray of Aliens (which was processed by Lowry) as it's one of the most stunning Blus in my entire collection, it's incredibly detailed but it never loses the veneer of true film-like quality. Alas, not everyone has the money for a Lowry upgrade which is where buffoons like Universal come in

It will be interesting to see what MGM will do to the classic films up through the Brosnan era of Bond and if they will take whatever Lowry did years ago and just slap them on UHD Blu-ray or if there will be an effort to re-do some of their early 4k work. Not all of the older titles even received 4k restorations as the money ran out on the project part way through, with GoldenEye getting shafted altogether.

[Geoff D]

I thought the plan (at the time) was always to do a select few Bonds in 4K simply because the newer films didn't require such a full-blown restoration, but anyway: yes, it'll be interesting to see if they go with those Lowry masters or not. HDR will surely be part of the equation and that kind of dynamic range may not be present on those original 4K restorations.

We know that MGM have redone the rest of the Bonds in 4K thanks to the 4K DCPs that are out there (plus the new transfer which was used for Spy Who Loved Me on Blu) so who knows, they well have redone them all.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I thought the plan (at the time) was always to do a select few Bonds in 4K simply because the newer films didn't require such a full-blown restoration, but anyway: yes, it'll be interesting to see if they go with those Lowry masters or not. HDR will surely be part of the equation and that kind of dynamic range may not be present on those original 4K restorations.

We know that MGM have redone the rest of the Bonds in 4K thanks to the 4K DCPs that are out there (plus the new transfer which was used for Spy Who Loved Me on Blu) so who knows, they well have redone them all.

Whatever happens to the MGM titles probably falls to Fox and their willingness to pony up some money to really treat their classic titles right. MGM is a weak little mouse, and no longer a roaring lion... they haven't been for quite some time... and other distribution partners have to do the heavy lifting for them.

The archival team did after all restore Robocop, The Terminator, and a few others in 4k.

[Geoff D]

Fox distribute MGM's stuff, nothing more. If MGM want to restore something then they have to do it on their own dime, it's not on Fox to pay for restoring someone else's movie. A lot of people assumed that MGM titles would quickly follow on UHD because of their tie-up with Fox but that's not been the case either.

[shesha]

I can only Imagine Skyfall in 4k with HDR.

[bbwiscfan]

Originally Posted by shesha

I can only Imagine Skyfall in 4k with HDR.

Don't tease.....

[DJJez]

Originally Posted by shesha

I can only Imagine Skyfall in 4k with HDR.

skyfall on blu ray looks glorious

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But grain management is far, far, FAR more advanced than ye olde DNR from way back when, I'm reminded of that every single time I watch the Blu-ray of Aliens (which was processed by Lowry) as it's one of the most stunning Blus in my entire collection, it's incredibly detailed but it never loses the veneer of true film-like quality. Alas, not everyone has the money for a Lowry upgrade which is where buffoons like Universal come in

I was thinking of Aliens as I read you guys debating grain, then you brought it up. If they can "grain manage" movies for UHD in the way Aliens was I would have no issue with that at all, and I say that as a grain lover.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by puddy77

He's using a Sony VPL-VW665ES.

But most home front projectors in their set-up don't have enough nits to take full advantage of the said benefits of HDR. This is definitely the case with the Sony 665. The $60,000 Sony 5000 might be different story give it's capable of more than twice the lumens.

[puddy77]

Since you guys were recently talking about the Bond films in 4k, Hulu just announced they are streaming them in 4k: https://www.hulu.com/press/posts/4k-...eaming-on-hulu

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Whaddaya know, Geoff's armchair powers are occasionally correct. For 35mm movies of a certain vintage you're just gonna get more grain rather than more detail when moving into 4K. The film fanatics won't want to hear that, but it's the truth.

Yep and given there is no HDR to deal with on BD, it's better from a purest standpoint. It sounds like the Blu-ray might be the best "all around" version when it comes to certain 35mm movies.

It's interesting as John S pointed this out a couple of years ago regarding detail potential.

[gates70]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

But most home front projectors in their set-up don't have enough nits to take full advantage of the said benefits of HDR. This is definitely the case with the Sony 665. The $60,000 Sony 5000 might be different story give it's capable of more than twice the lumens.

I don't know about all that but mine is bright enough and I thought I was going to cook my eyes out at times with the brightness while watching X-Men Apocalypse.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Yep and given there is no HDR to deal with on BD, it's better from a purest standpoint. It sounds like the Blu-ray might be the best "all around" version when it comes to certain 35mm movies.

It's interesting as John S pointed this out a couple of years ago regarding detail potential.

If Warner's Goodfellas is comparable to Sony's Ghostbusters (1984) and Fox's ID4, then the UHD will certainly be the best "all around" version. I guess the purist can take solace though by the fact that at the BD is certainly not contaminated with HDR.

Speaking of which, HDR is an option, not something that has to be "dealt with". Blu-ray's technical limitations are what has to be "dealt with".

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by bruceames

If Warner's Goodfellas is comparable to Sony's Ghostbusters (1984) and Fox's ID4, then the UHD will certainly be the best "all around" version. I guess the purist can take solace though by the fact that at the BD is certainly not contaminated with HDR.

Speaking of which, HDR is an option, not something that has to be "dealt with". Blu-ray's technical limitations are what has to be "dealt with".

I might be showing my age here ... my memories of 35mm theatrical prints (well, 70mm in the cases of Ghostbusters and Independence Day) are that in point of contrast those exhibitions fell well short of present-day HDR as seen on flat-panel TVs.

I know this has been rehashed ad nauseam on these forums but I can't help but think that "purism" may more properly lean to SDR than HDR for many classic films. (Not so however as respects the wider color of UHD BD.)

I figure I'll be able to get a better grip on all this once HDR 4K DLP PJs come in; maybe 2019-20ish for home use. Watching on a small backlit or pixel-emissive display can't deliver "theatrical purist" results no matter what.