Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[TheOneWithThePrize]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

Yeah but look at the UK region free release of The Blob 1988 and the original. From what I've read the 1988 release has some bad transfer issues while TT's is stellar

There is as yet no UK release of the 1988 The Blob, you're probably thinking of the Australian release.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

I wouldn't be for it. Making things even more limited for people? They may struggle to sell 1500 of a certain title, but then again some of those 1500 releases may sell out quickly and if they stick by the limited edition, no re-releases thing then more people would lose out and then we'd be back to square one with the whole thing of people feeling obligated to buy right now for fear of losing out. What kind of way is that to engender good customer relations? Maybe we should let this company die and allow the other companies that don't stick by such a restrictive model step in and take over. Just because the studios themselves are not interested doesn't mean that companies like Shout or Kino aren't doing an awesome job of putting out great releases using the more traditional sales model.

Honestly, most consumers could care less about these titles. Which is why the market is dwindling. Catalog titles are a collectors market these days. Unless it is a sure fire title that mass consumers still want to own on disc, they are not selling.

So, it is to the point of being grateful for the 1,500 units pressed or not have the title at all. Having limitless quantities does not mean more units are being sold. Kino, Shout and Olive probably have a core group of titles doing extremely well. But a majority of them I would imagine have not come close to selling 1,500 or 3,000 units.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

Yeah but look at the UK region free release of The Blob 1988 and the original. From what I've read the 1988 release has some bad transfer issues while TT's is stellar and Criterion has a definitive release of the original. I know TT's 1988 Blob is sold out but for me it would be worth it to buy at a higher price on amazon to have a better transfer. That's where cheapness comes into play with a lot of consumers who would rather have a cheaper release than a quality one which hurts blu ray. I know there's other UK region free editions that are quality but its the bigger picture too with other boutique labels.

I think Umbrella from Australia put out the same transfer of the Blob that TT did. I didn't notice it, but I do remember at the time that there were people on here saying that the TT disc had some kind of compression issues here and there (possibly similar to the ones found on the Fright Night re-issue that TT put out).

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by TheOneWithThePrize

There is as yet no UK release of the 1988 The Blob, you're probably thinking of the Australian release.

Yeah you're right that's the one I was referring too.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

I think Umbrella from Australia put out the same transfer of the Blob that TT did. I didn't notice it, but I do remember at the time that there were people on here saying that the TT disc had some kind of compression issues here and there (possibly similar to the ones found on the Fright Night re-issue that TT put out).

The posts I read stated that the Umbrella release had issues that weren't on the TT release such as macroblocking. I've watched the TT release quite a few times and haven't noticed any compression issues whatsoever. The Fright Night 30th anniversary TT edition does have some slight macroblocking though unfortunately.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

The posts I read stated that the Umbrella release had issues that weren't on the TT release such as macroblocking. I've watched the TT release quite a few times and haven't noticed any compression issues whatsoever. The Fright Night 30th anniversary TT edition does have some slight macroblocking though unfortunately.

Yeah I own the TT The Blob and didn't notice any macroblocking, but I'm pretty sure that was what people were bringing up on here shortly after it was released.

edit: actually looking through Twilight Time the blob thread now I don't see any complaints about macroblocking, just vague comments about PQ quality.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Yeah I own the TT The Blob and didn't notice any macroblocking, but I'm pretty sure that was what people were bringing up on here shortly after it was released.

edit: actually looking through Twilight Time the blob thread now I don't see any complaints about macroblocking, just vague comments about PQ quality.

Yeah frankly I think TT's The Blob looks just as great as a 4K transfer. The review on this site for the Australian release states its the same transfer as TT's but with compression artifacts and crush which were definitely not on TT's transfer. What's odd is that the transfer score for the Australian release got a half a point higher score than TT's with those issues.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

Honestly, most consumers could care less about these titles. Which is why the market is dwindling. Catalog titles are a collectors market these days. Unless it is a sure fire title that mass consumers still want to own on disc, they are not selling.

So, it is to the point of being grateful for the 1,500 units pressed or not have the title at all. Having limitless quantities does not mean more units are being sold. Kino, Shout and Olive probably have a core group of titles doing extremely well. But a majority of them I would imagine have not come close to selling 1,500 or 3,000 units.

There are lots of Twilight Time titles that have sold out after they've been put on sale, so there's interest in titles like Swamp Water, at the right price. The only justification for Twilight Time wanting to drop down to 1500 units is because it's less money that they have to pay up front and it drives up demand again so that they sell more titles at full price. It's a very self-serving proposition on their part IMO.

The other labels don't purchase titles the same way that Twilight Time does, so some titles selling poorly probably don't impact them as much as it would Twilight Time. It all boils down to the folly of their business model which I'm sure made sense when looking at it from the perspective of physical media being dead and buried by now.

[klauswhereareyou]

Not much they've put out in the last year has really grabbed my attention, but I'd be all for them putting out Sam Fuller's The Crimson Kimono and Underworld USA, two titles that I think they could get their hands on (Sony owned) if they wanted to.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

There are lots of Twilight Time titles that have sold out after they've been put on sale, so there's interest in titles like Swamp Water, at the right price. The only justification for Twilight Time wanting to drop down to 1500 units is because it's less money that they have to pay up front and it drives up demand again so that they sell more titles at full price. It's a very self-serving proposition on their part IMO.

The other labels don't purchase titles the same way that Twilight Time does, so some titles selling poorly probably don't impact them as much as it would Twilight Time. It all boils down to the folly of their business model which I'm sure made sense when looking at it from the perspective of physical media being dead and buried by now.

It is not being self-serving. It is being realistic. The other labels do not take money from their own pockets like Twilight Time does. They have a bigger budget and financial backing. They also can take a loss without going bankrupt. It's not greed, they are probably just barely making a profit on what they sell and probably put the profits back into the business.

1,500 units is where the market is for most of these titles. There is no huge market for disc anymore. This is it, we are nearing the end.

[deltatauhobbit]

The consistent sales have definitely put me in "wait and see" mode. They've recently released titles that probably would have moved much quicker closer to the start of their business (like The Mad Magician which has 3D and Three Stooges in 3D, or The Three Worlds of Gulliver which has Harryhausen magic) but are still available months from now and likely will be for awhile longer until the prices start to go down. Normally, I would have pre-ordered them ASAP, now, I'll wait until it gets to $20 or so unless there's a low quantity update.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by oildude

I watched Tony Rome last night for the first time and LOVED it. Wasting no time in getting going, Tony Rome packs more words and action into its 110 minute run-time than many films of its era.

Sean Connery Bond films excepted, this has to be one of the most non-PC 1960s films I have ever seen. A crime thriller sporting noir underpinnings, with Frank Sinatra as the titular private detective, TR mixes in elements of camp and sexual humor (including one scene where you could make a drinking game out of every time the p-word is used to describe a cat), lots of testosterone fueled dialogue, Sinatra casually butt-patting bikini-clad babes, boozing, a gambling addiction, we-don't-need-no-stinking-warrant break-ins, more boozing, drugs, strippers, lesbians, stolen gems, promiscuous redheads, some blazing gun action, a couple of beat-downs, hoods and thugs......and everyone smokes.

Throw in the time capsule setting of mid-1960s Miami, lots of classic cars, boats, suits, fedoras, a cameo by boxing legend Rocky Graziano, an energetic theme song sung by Nancy Sinatra, and what you get is a tasty brew that I could drink all day.

I can't wait to watch the second film Lady in Cement, especially since it also stars Raquel Welch. The more I watch Sinatra, the more I am sold on him as one of my favorite actors. He chose his projects well, starring in some of the most critically acclaimed films at the top of my best movies list as well as hugely enjoyable action-oriented guy films that I can watch over and over again.

Moving on to Lady in Cement, the second feature in the fantastic Tony Rome double bill from Twilight Time, I am happy to report that, although a lesser entry than the first film, it is still another winner. Lady in Cement ramps up the wisecracks and is a bit on the silly side at times compared to Tony Rome, but sticks to the same basic tropes that made its predecessor such a blast to watch. The script isn't as tight and compelling and suffers from some absurd sequences. There is a more light-hearted comic tone, but you still get enough guns, knives, and fists to remind us we are watching Sinatra's tough-guy private eye unleash his own booze-and gambling-fueled brand of righteousness to cure the ills of Miami. Things don't always go Sinatra's way but one thing for sure is that nobody gets their ass beat with more style, shabby class, and wisecracks than Tony Rome.

It's still the 1960s and we still get lots of non-PC goodness. Why clutter up a plot with strong intelligent women when beach lounging babes, poolside heiresses, and strippers are so plentiful and so much more fun. The film kicks off with Sinatra in his tumbledown yacht treasure hunting off the south Florida coast looking for Spanish galleon wrecks from a $2 map. Instead of riches under the waves he finds a few annoying sharks and a naked blonde with her feet encased in cement. That gets the events rolling and from there Lady in Cement never slows down.

There are some good turns here from the supporting cast. Dan Blocker (immortalized for several generations of movie fans as Hoss from TV's Bonanza) plays a hulking small-time hood named Waldo Gronski, who with his quick temper and dim-witted charm is worth the price of admission alone. He has just gotten out of a two-year stint in the joint and hires Sinatra to find his missing stripper girlfriend. He has no money so he hands over his watch as a retainer. Later in the film, fans of a certain age will recognize Director Gordon Douglas' wink at his audience when Blocker is watching television and we hear the Bonanza theme song coming from the screen.

Raquel Welch provides plenty of eye-candy and big (really big) hair as a rich heiress named Kit. This is Raquel in her sexy prime where her hair style changes as frequently as her bikinis and evening wear. Richard Conti returns as the long suffering police lieutenant and Sinatra's friend and former partner.

The 1960s goodness abounds, with even more views of Miami than in the first film, more classic cars, nightclubs and strip joints, and an extended chase sequence through some Miami Beach hotels, complete with a cabana boy offering to set up tourists with all the hookers and blow they need to make their stay in Miami a memorable experience. Best of all are the little things that populate this time-capsule caught on celluloid.......hey, you know it's the 1960s when five bucks (a "fin") is enough money to tempt some stool pigeon to rat out a gangster.

The PQ is gloriously good and colorful; no complaints from this lover of vintage cinema. One thing missing in the sequel is the music that enlivened the first movie. I missed hearing Nancy Sinatra's spirited theme song and the action music that spiced up Tony Rome. This time the dominate theme is a kind of bad martini-lounge sound from Hugo Montenegro, which means jaunty organ riffs accompany many of the chases and beat-downs, sort of like the kind of parody music heard in elevators once upon a time that ear-worms its way into your brain. All in all, Lady in Cement is pretty good and worth your time. Ruder, cruder, and lewder than the first film, it contains many of the same magical ingredients, and while not as good, it just might be more fun.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

This is it, we are nearing the end.

If so, we're going out with a bang and not a whimper! The last few years have gifted us with an absolute deluge of titles.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

If so, we're going out with a bang and not a whimper! The last few years have gifted us with an absolute deluge of titles.

I do not think it will go away completely too soon. But I do think this is the last opportunity to purchase a majority of titles on disc.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

It is not being self-serving. It is being realistic. The other labels do not take money from their own pockets like Twilight Time does. They have a bigger budget and financial backing. They also can take a loss without going bankrupt. It's not greed, they are probably just barely making a profit on what they sell and probably put the profits back into the business.

1,500 units is where the market is for most of these titles. There is no huge market for disc anymore. This is it, we are nearing the end.

It's not that 1500 units is where the market is, it's that blu-ray prices of $10-$20 is where the market is. Plenty of their titles have sold all 3000 copies after going on sale. By halving their production runs from 3000 to 1500, they're going to subsequently drive up demand for their product and once again create an artificial value for their product. If they don't have the budget or the financial backing to do that, they should get out of the game and let companies who are able to do that step in. I'm confident that companies like Kino, Shout, Arrow or Powerhouse would thrive stepping in to fill the void.

[The Great Owl]

I'm still a sucker, and I still pre-order my wanted Twilight Time titles on day one when they come up on the website, even though most of the titles that I pre-order for full price end up going for sale later on.

I don't like to play Blu-rays like the stock market, and wait for the absolute lowest price over time, because I don't want to end up being one of the people who misses out when a title goes out of print or sells out.

I'm 99% sure that Peyton Place and Our Man in Havana won't sell out, but I pre-ordered anyway, because, for all I know, there may be millions of Peyton Place fans lurking about ready to buy before the end of the month.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

It's not that 1500 units is where the market is, it's that blu-ray prices of $10-$20 is where the market is. Plenty of their titles have sold all 3000 copies after going on sale. By halving their production runs from 3000 to 1500, they're going to subsequently drive up demand for their product and once again create an artificial value for their product. If they don't have the budget or the financial backing to do that, they should get out of the game and let companies who are able to do that step in. I'm confident that companies like Kino, Shout, Arrow or Powerhouse would thrive stepping in to fill the void.

Catalog titles are not flying off the shelf. It is the reason the studios are licensing them out instead of releasing themselves. Having a large quantity available is not going create stronger sales. We are not in that place anymore.

You are wrong when you say plenty of TT titles have sold out AFTER going on sale. In fact there are very few that have sold old quickly. Most of their titles have been available for a long period of time. Or at least enough time where collectors can wait to purchase them when are able to.

There is no reason to press thousands units of any catalog titles unless it is a specific title or genre that still sells. I'm not sure, but I would guess the 'other' labels are conservative with the number they press on certain titles. Otherwise they would lose money.

Re: TT. If they did not indicate they were limited editions, nobody would be the wiser. They based the qty on what they felt was accurate for 2011 when they began. It is now 2017 and they see that sales have been cut in half. Not for just them, but for everyone.

[painiac]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

Yeah but look at the Umbrella region free release of The Blob 1988 and the original. From what I've read the 1988 release has some bad transfer issues while TT's is stellar and Criterion has a definitive release of the original. I know TT's 1988 Blob is sold out but for me it would be worth it to buy at a higher price on amazon to have a better transfer. That's where cheapness comes into play with a lot of consumers who would rather have a cheaper release than a quality one which hurts blu ray. I know there's other UK region free editions that are quality but its the bigger picture too with other boutique labels.

it's not about being cheap so mach as not paying twice as much as i have to for a release that's the same quality with packaging i prefer.

[78deluxe]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

1,500 units is where the market is for most of these titles. There is no huge market for disc anymore. This is it, we are nearing the end.

It is a question of specific disc and price.

At the $30+ shipping level, yeah the majority are not going to sell quickly.

You drop these things down to $10 a pop and selling 1,500 in a reasonable amount of time isn't that difficult.

Some of the titles do have a market over 1,500 for sure and quite frankly they should be doing their best to get those titles given the price point they are charging.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

Catalog titles are not flying off the shelf. It is the reason the studios are licensing them out instead of releasing themselves. Having a large quantity available is not going create stronger sales. We are not in that place anymore.

You are wrong when you say plenty of TT titles have sold out AFTER going on sale. In fact there are very few that have sold old quickly. Most of their titles have been available for a long period of time. Or at least enough time where collectors can wait to purchase them when are able to.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. Very few of their titles sold out quickly at full price. But once they started offering sales, titles such as Rains of Rachipur, Swamp Water, Bonjour Tristesse sold out all 3000 copies. Hence, my assertion that there is a market for releases such as those but only at the right price. People will buy those titles at $10-$15, just not $30.

Originally Posted by Brad1963

There is no reason to press thousands units of any catalog titles unless it is a specific title or genre that still sells. I'm not sure, but I would guess the 'other' labels are conservative with the number they press on certain titles. Otherwise they would lose money.

Re: TT. If they did not indicate they were limited editions, nobody would be the wiser. They based the qty on what they felt was accurate for 2011 when they began. It is now 2017 and they see that sales have been cut in half. Not for just them, but for everyone.

Yeah, but they do. And they trumpet it quite loudly, playing on the fact that many people will panic buy if they think they're going to miss out. But more importantly, they play up the fact that if a title sells out, it's gone for good particularly as they have stated they will no longer offer encore editions. A Kino title may sell only 500 copies for all I know and that's fine. Nobody is the wiser. But some Kino titles may sell like hotcakes and if so, they print more copies and sell to meet that demand so that everyone who wants a copy can get one and without having to pay $30 for the privilege.

Hey, if Twilight Time feel that it's necessary to drop down to 1500 runs in order to sustain themselves, then that's fine. BUT, doing that AND playing up the whole "if it's sold out, it's gone for good" is NOT okay with me. There are too many other players on the scene proving that sort of business model is not necessary for them to keep feeding us that line.