Suspiria (1977) (Remastered)

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by WilsonBros

Let's not forget one particular actor who couldn't speak English having his lines fed to him by a shadowy figure crouching behind him outside the conference centre, reciting them parrot-fashion.

[sjconstable]

Originally Posted by Rockercub

The Italians didn't even record the audio from shooting.

They did, it's just not usually what we hear in the final product and was instead used as a guide for them in post-production.

[shaysaysHAHA]

I really don't understand how two different restorations, both completed by some of the best film restorers in the industry, can look so different. And there's no clear indication which is correct. I'm leaning towards the Synpase just because it looks closer to the Anchor Bay DVD which was approved by the director of photography. The Synapse looks much closer to how I grew up watching Suspiria. The fact that Synapse hasn't shared their evidence for why their colors look the way they do and Torsten has gives me pause though.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by shaysaysHAHA

I really don't understand how two different restorations, both completed by some of the best film restorers in the industry, can look so different. And there's no clear indication which is correct. I'm leaning towards the Synpase just because it looks closer to the Anchor Bay DVD which was approved by the director of photography. The Synapse looks much closer to how I grew up watching Suspiria. The fact that Synapse hadn't shared their evidence for why their colors look the way they do and Torsten has gives me pause though.

The restoration used for the Italian blu-ray was based on quotes from him, too, so who knows. Based on the situation with some other films that had two radically different restorations both approved, I dunno how much their seal of approval matters. :P

[Mpmarks1975]

Originally Posted by shaysaysHAHA

I really don't understand how two different restorations, both completed by some of the best film restorers in the industry, can look so different. And there's no clear indication which is correct. I'm leaning towards the Synpase just because it looks closer to the Anchor Bay DVD which was approved by the director of photography. The Synapse looks much closer to how I grew up watching Suspiria. The fact that Synapse hadn't shared their evidence for why their colors look the way they do and Torsten has gives me pause though.

Directors, DOP, etc really cant be trusted to get these things right. If its a supervised by... transfer expect a debate!

[junyab]

I can't wait until the Synapse disc is out so we finally end these heated PQ arguments and begin the "why is the Synapse disc so damn expensive compared to the Italian release!?!?!" debates.

[kem71]

Originally Posted by junyab

I can't wait until the Synapse disc is out so we finally end these heated PQ arguments and begin the "why is the Synapse disc so damn expensive compared to the Italian release!?!?!" debates.

So true. And I'm also really looking forward to the multiple "I hate steelbooks, is Synapse going to release a standard Blu-ray?"

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by kem71

So true. And I'm also really looking forward to the multiple "I hate steelbooks, is Synapse going to release a standard Blu-ray?"

And then "how dare they remove the Italian language track on the standard!!"

[kem71]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

And then "how dare they remove the Italian language track on the standard!!"

Oh yeah, can't forget that!
I have a feeling that when the Synapse Blu-ray comes out it's going to be The Most Scrutinized Blu-ray Ever. Personally, I'm really looking forward to this release myself, I think it's going to be worth the wait!

[tommynorcal]

I'm gonna bring this up again because I have a sincere question about how it relates to the reference being used for the colors:

"It is often assumed that, to achieve the rich color palette, the film was shot using the outdated three-strip Technicolor process. This is not true. No film made after the mid-'50s was shot using this method. This film was instead shot on normal Eastmancolor Kodak stock, then printed using the three-strip Technicolor process, utilizing one of the last remaining three-strip machines. This issue has been confused somewhat by the fact that, on the 25th anniversary documentary featured in the three-disc DVD set, a discussion of the printing process by cinematographer Luciano Tovoli was followed by a diagram showing a three-strip camera."

Does the reference being used for the Italian/German release take this into account? I have literally no idea how the process of restoring the colors goes so I'm strictly speaking out of curiosity. Not debating, as I'm getting both and enjoying them both.

[Life Without Death]

Originally Posted by starman15317

Stupid question, but are most of Argento's film meant to be watched in English or Italian? I've only seen Suspiria so far.

I almost always prefer the Italian. I have yet to watch Suspiria in Italian though oddly enough. Giallos/Italian horror, in general, tend to play better in Italian in my opinion. The best example I can think of is Deep Red where the Italian track is far superior, but some dislike it. You could always watch both since Suspiria is a movie worth watching multiple times.

[Mpmarks1975]

Torsten Kaiser posted initially in the smaller Italian thread, and 2-3 weeks ago in this one. He explained how his
restoration came about, and the fact he worked off the answer print and other reference points for accuracy. He goes into the technicalities better than i could para-phrase. My personal view is what most of us think it should look like with those really vivid garish colors may have been brought about by years of tinkering on home formats, more specifically early 2000s and beyond. This is only my non technical view.

[tommynorcal]

Ok cool, I guess the answer print is the first print after coloring is done and the three strip process was performed during that printing. That helps me understand this much better.

[zbinks]

Originally Posted by tommynorcal

I'm gonna bring this up again because I have a sincere question about how it relates to the reference being used for the colors:

"It is often assumed that, to achieve the rich color palette, the film was shot using the outdated three-strip Technicolor process. This is not true. No film made after the mid-'50s was shot using this method. This film was instead shot on normal Eastmancolor Kodak stock, then printed using the three-strip Technicolor process, utilizing one of the last remaining three-strip machines. This issue has been confused somewhat by the fact that, on the 25th anniversary documentary featured in the three-disc DVD set, a discussion of the printing process by cinematographer Luciano Tovoli was followed by a diagram showing a three-strip camera."

Does the reference being used for the Italian/German release take this into account? I have literally no idea how the process of restoring the colors goes so I'm strictly speaking out of curiosity. Not debating, as I'm getting both and enjoying them both.

Originally Posted by tommynorcal

Ok cool, I guess the answer print is the first print after coloring is done and the three strip process was performed during that printing. That helps me understand this much better.

Replace three-strip Technicolor or three-strip with IB (Imbition) Technicolor Dye Transfer.

Originally Posted by Torsten Kaiser TLE

Two other things: SUSPIRIA ist not 3-strip Technicolor, a process dicontinued in the late 50s. SUSPIRIA's original Negative, the Intermediate Positive and the Intermediate Negative elements are ALL Eastman. The reference Master Positive and the regular Prints that these reference MP elements were made for (as strict guideline) was Technicolor Dye Transfer, as single layer process, where the metal-based IB Tech dyes were literally printed on the emulsion side. And: The colors would never register on a Technicolor element in this way, Eastman / IB Tech Dye Transfer or - especially - in the 3-strip "chain" that actually refers to the pre-print materials (OCN/IP/IN) anyway.

[painiac]

Originally Posted by starman15317

Stupid question, but are most of Argento's film meant to be watched in English or Italian? I've only seen Suspiria so far.

i watched pretty much everything in English, especially considering the proliferation of dubtitles.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by WilsonBros

Let's not forget one particular actor who couldn't speak English having his lines fed to him by a shadowy figure crouching behind him outside the conference centre, reciting them parrot-fashion.

I still love the old dude in the village in Temple of Doom, he's not just reciting the lines he's being fed but he's also emulating the hand movements of the guy who's speaking them, something Spielberg I think his name is?

[Braktastic]

Once it became clear that there's really no wrong way to watch an these types of Italian horror films, I defaulted to English primarily because it easier to watch dialogue that's in sync with the majority of the actors lips.

[cakefactory]

I have never watched this movie in Italian, I think the first time I even watched ANY of it was when I watched a few scenes on the new blu-ray just to hear what the sound mix was like on the Italian track (and it was bizarre and terrible with gigantic booms of footsteps overpowering the music). I might check it out on the Synapse since they'll probably have a better sounding one, but I'm sure I'll go back to the English version as Miss Tanner's voice/dialogue is the highlight of the movie. Even just missing out on her delighted ONE AND TWO AND THREE AND FOUR!! would be too great a price to pay!

[whysleep]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

I might check it out on the Synapse since they'll probably have a better sounding one, but I'm sure I'll go back to the English version as Miss Tanner's voice/dialogue is the highlight of the movie. Even just missing out on her delighted ONE AND TWO AND THREE AND FOUR!! would be too great a price to pay!

It's been a while since I last saw it, but I think Alida Valli also dubs herself in the Italian version.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

Even just missing out on her delighted ONE AND TWO AND THREE AND FOUR!! would be too great a price to pay!

Alida Valli's frozen death-rictus grin is the most terrifying (recurring!) image in the entire film.