Suspiria (1977) (Remastered)

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by mar3o

People can twist and distort the evidence all they want, but the fact is, those Synapse colors do not look garish. The Synapse images show colors that don't even exist in the Italian. Like the shot of the feet with the pinkish/magenta light that stands out from the red in the rest of the shot. In the Italian it all just blends in. Do you honestly think Synapse created colors that aren't there? Because in their restoration, those colors are separated, but in the Italian, they blend together. It's obvious a separate pinkish light was used to highlight the feet, but in the Italian you can't even see the colors apart.

Same for the shot of the wall that is mostly blue in the Italian, but clearly half the wall is actually green in the Syanpse. Again, do you think they purposely split the wall into two different colors? If not, then obviously those color differences existed already, but the Italian just doesn't bring out the different colors as well so many of the colors blend together. It's obvious that wall was illuminated with 2 different colors. So why doesn't the Italian disc show that?

Originally Posted by death_nerve

That particular image was the exact point where I stopped entertaining the idea of the Italian disc being more accurate than the Synapse version or any of the previous releases. The wall is green and blue in that shot because of the giant green and blue stained glass window on the opposite side of the room. If you have the Anchor Bay/Blue Underground DVD go to "The Bat" chapter and start paying close attention right after she takes care of the pest. Suzy is smoking in the dark and they've lit the window behind her to project the cascading rainfall and part of the green and blue design onto the walls.

In two of the Synapse comparison shots (#7 & #2) the Italian version just has solid green throughout. Even with the difference in color, there should still be two distinct colors on the wall in screencap #2 matching the colors of the window in screencap #7.

Originally Posted by 30hertzrumble

The green in the Italian version is off the charts. I don't know how anyone can look at these particular images and suggest the Synapse color and contrast isn't a vast improvement.

LMFAO at "pink feet." Based on the way Argento lit SUSPIRIA you could pick out just about any image and say "her face is blue! that's not natural, you guys! WTF is Synapse doing?!?!"

I can't wait for this release.

Originally Posted by sjconstable

I have my laptop hooked up to my plasma so I don't need to buy the disc to see it look just the same. Enjoy your disc and stop trying to convince everyone it's better than the Synapse, are you trying to justify your purchase to yourself?

Posts like these are what I am talking about. Chrismac87 made some very long posts about why the Italian is wrong based on those handful of screenshots as well. Some are very reasoned and intelligent, such as his, but many of them are knee-jerk. The one you quoted was not in any way trying to convince anyone the Italian was better than the Synapse. But yeah, reading these kinds of things all day do take a toll :P So I probably do.

[sjconstable]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

Posts like these are what I am talking about. Chrismac87 made some very long posts about why the Italian is wrong based on those handful of screenshots as well. Some are very reasoned and intelligent, such as his, but many of them are knee-jerk. The one you quoted was not in any way trying to convince anyone the Italian was better than the Synapse. But yeah, reading these kinds of things all day do take a toll :P So I probably do.

Similarly I was quoting that guy's post because I've noticed he keeps posting the same thing every day and it's a bit irritating. I don't understand why he wants people to pick up the Italian disc if they prefer the colours of the Synapse, I don't see what he would gain from it. Does he receive royalties?

[Cbeck]

Originally Posted by sjconstable

I have my laptop hooked up to my plasma so I don't need to buy the disc to see it look just the same. Enjoy your disc and stop trying to convince everyone it's better than the Synapse, are you trying to justify your purchase to yourself?

No, I don't need to justify anything. If I didn't like it I would say so and sell it. I had the UK disc at one time which I sold.

I was responding to a post with information. I thought that was what a forum is about.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by sjconstable

Similarly I was quoting that guy's post because I've noticed he keeps posting the same thing every day and it's a bit irritating. I don't understand why he wants people to pick up the Italian disc if they prefer the colours of the Synapse, I don't see what he would gain from it. Does he receive royalties?

Eh, fair enough, I've not noticed that guy before. My opinion is if you think the Synapse caps look better, then you shouldn't pick the Italian up. I only did cause I'm a Suspiria fanboy, it was cheap, and it looked like a huge upgrade over the DVD and it had been a long time since I watched it. If it was a 60 Euro German edition, I wouldn't have even thought about it based on the screenshot difference being so pronounced toward the Synapse.

It's just if you're going to repeatedly complain about the (very cheap) Italian, you should pick it up so you can properly justify your complaints.

[Cbeck]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

He's not trying to convince anyone the Italian disc is better than the Synapse, he's trying to get all these people freaking out about how bad a disc is without having watched it themselves that they're not right for dismissing it based on a handful of screenshots from a biased source. If you think the synapse caps look better, great, I'm right with you. If you are trying to mount a lengthy argument about how the (NOT EVEN OUT) synapse disc is better and how the italian disc sucks without having watched it yourself, enough already. Wait for the Synapse and be happy with it, stop trying to criticize something you haven't seen based on a shred of evidence from the company that IS trying to convince you their upcoming disc is better. If you're not going to watch the damn thing, why is it so important to you that you must come up with huge arguments against it? You're not giving it a chance, and thus why do you care?

Thank you.

I would like to see comparisons from another source. The shots don't match what I am seeing on my display.

[andyk69]

Originally Posted by sjconstable

I have my laptop hooked up to my plasma so I don't need to buy the disc to see it look just the same. Enjoy your disc and stop trying to convince everyone it's better than the Synapse, are you trying to justify your purchase to yourself?

'
Oh dear...
"better than Synapse"

Synapse Suspiria is not out yet, helloooooo?

and I don't think he is trying to convice anybody, he is giving his perspective about an scene color scheme that is being discused...

really

[Braktastic]

Originally Posted by Cbeck

I would like to see comparisons from another source. The shots don't match what I am seeing on my display.

My display was recently calibrated, so I'm very interested to compare those scenes on the Italian disc to Synapse's screenshots of them when it arrives.

[death_nerve]

Originally Posted by Mahadeva

Could you tell me the timecode of that scene?

It should be from 1:21:31 to 1:23:21. Your video clips have been very helpful, so thank you for taking the time to upload them.

I'm not really invested in the Synapse vs TLEFilms pissing match. My main issue is that the purpose of the TLEFilms restoration was to create a new master for the rights holders because the negative of Suspiria is in really bad shape. This version of Suspiria is potentially going to be considered the correct version of the film from here on out. This sudden notion that it's unfair to criticize the quality of a release based on screencaps is ridiculous. If you think that Synapse posted doctored caps why not post some of your own?

[Mpmarks1975]

This is like a does God exist debate, if you believe you wont be swayed, if you dont probably the same regardless of the evidence. To repost what Torsten posted on the 8th responding to the negative being restored "No. Not the (Eastman) Negative. The Technicolor (IB Tech) Dye Transfer Master Positive. The "pop" many are used to came with video transfers in the past that evidently did not use or have access to reference materials to cross reference with the actual makers work on the signed-off Technicolor film "master", so the Dye Transfer MP. Thus, these video transfers became interpretantions. Which is fine, and also that people buy it because they prefer it. Our job, however, as I tried to outline before, was (on behalf of the film's owner) was a different one: to strictly restore and preserve the original work based on these signed off references that were very well preserved and matched both the palette used at the time and Luciano Tovoli's explanations on his intent in every way". For me I'll have both versions, but until something more substantial comes along to distpute what he has explained i'll be more inclined to believe this version looks like how it was filmed (but not fully represented on the Italian blu).

[JohnCarpenterLives]

Mods! MOOOOOODS! Clean this up!

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by cakefactory

Posts like these are what I am talking about. Chrismac87 made some very long posts about why the Italian is wrong based on those handful of screenshots as well. Some are very reasoned and intelligent, such as his, but many of them are knee-jerk. The one you quoted was not in any way trying to convince anyone the Italian was better than the Synapse. But yeah, reading these kinds of things all day do take a toll :P So I probably do.

This is a blu-ray discussion forum. As such, many of us are passionate about quality, especially for this film obviously since we are all here because we are fans of the film. People have differing opinions, and many of us feel strongly about them.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterLives

Mods! MOOOOOODS! Clean this up!

Why? I see people having a discussion, which is what this site is for, no?

I'm not a mod so I'm not trying to tell them their jobs, but unless people are using profanity or personal insults, why should they come in and start deleting posts? Because some of us are taking a side others don't like?

[Mpmarks1975]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterLives

Mods! MOOOOOODS! Clean this up!

Clean what up exactly?

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by mar3o

This is a blu-ray discussion forum. As such, many of us are passionate about quality, especially for this film obviously since we are all here because we are fans of the film. People have differing opinions, and many of us feel strongly about them.

I have no problem with the concept of it, and when both the discs are actually out and people have watched at least one of them and/or looked at the MUCH more objective caps-a-holic comparisons I'll get it and have no complaint whatsoever about the ensuing arguments. But, at this point people working off purely the handful of biased captures reminds me vaguely of that story about the blind men examining the elephant.

Speaking of caps-a-holic, I just looked at the comparison of the IT blu-ray to the AB DVD, and it really doesn't seem much different in most of those caps apart from the first one, where the AB is considerably darker, the chandelier breaking where the AB looks more like some kind of high-contrast icy thing (which I sorta prefer), the one of the green-lit room at night where the AB is a lot darker, and the one of the guy against the sky, where he does look a bit more green on the IT. I guess cause they weren't cherry-picking particular scenes like Synapse did? Or is it that the AB also doesn't match the Synapse shots? I guess I'd have to pull the accompanying AB shots to those Synapse ones.

[sjconstable]

Originally Posted by Mpmarks1975

Clean what up exactly?

His own post would be the prime contender

[Mpmarks1975]

Originally Posted by sjconstable

His own post would be the prime contender

For what exactly? I responded to the previous post by quoting someone who has worked on one of the restorations, ive no clue if everyone has trawled through the minefield of posts in this thread.

[cakefactory]

Originally Posted by Mpmarks1975

For what exactly? I responded to the previous post by quoting someone who has worked on one of the restorations, ive no clue if everyone has trawled through the minefield of posts in this thread.

The lack of nested quotes really makes communication muddled. He meant the "mods MOOODSSSS" post, not yours.

[Geoff D]

Watched the Italian disc earlier, what a batshit insane film - in the best possible way! I'm not a fan of gore and claret for the hell of it, I've always prized atmosphere and intent over the gooey stuff and this film delivers in spades. I'm not a complete stranger to Goblin's work thanks to my love of Dawn of the Dead and the music for this one is still bouncing around in my head, that 5.1 mix is gloriously OTT. And yes, it's a hoot to see Udo Kier blatantly reading his lines off a cue card.

As for the Blu, the colours just pop off the screen, primaries in particular, and detail is excellent. I thought the blacks looked just a little bit undercooked here and there but what do I know? The titles (at both the testa e coda) looked far too clean and stable to be the original opticals, according to the tech card at the end they were recomposited for this restoration.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Watched the Italian disc earlier, what a batshit insane film - in the best possible way! I'm not a fan of gore and claret for the hell of it, I've always prized atmosphere and intent over the gooey stuff and this film delivers in spades. I'm not a complete stranger to Goblin's work thanks to my love of Dawn of the Dead and the music for this one is still bouncing around in my head, that 5.1 mix is gloriously OTT. And yes, it's a hoot to see Udo Kier blatantly reading his lines off a cue card.

As for the Blu, the colours just pop off the screen, primaries in particular, and detail is excellent. I thought the blacks looked just a little bit undercooked here and there but what do I know? The titles (at both the testa e coda) looked far too clean and stable to be the original opticals, according to the tech card at the end they were recomposited for this restoration.

Great, now it's time for Inferno!

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

Great, now it's time for Inferno!

Was about to post that