LittleBigPlanet – Over 3 Million Community Levels!

[PA_Kid]

Originally Posted by air_max

why? is this not the same as picking up an extra shift so you can buy a new pair of jeans (or anything else)? the point i was making is that you aren't immune to minor purchases; you want something that doesn't cost much so you do something that doesn't take much time to pay for it. its simple economics.

Max, I think you mentioned this is part of your post, but lets make something very clear. The concerns that Proteus, Toefer, and I are expressing are NOT about whether we can or cannot afford the $2. The discussion is really about whether we feel the value and cost are in line.

I'm trying to think of a good example on a small scale, but can't. But lets say that suddenly 1 egg cost $2. Sure you could afford it, but does that make it a sensible purchase? If the egg sellers were making 200-300% ROI on the eggs, I think most people would say that is out of line.

Unfortunately, if we all buy the DLs, then that really is what the market will bear (regardless of crazy big margins). If we don't, well then we potentially harm the chances of seeing new DLs in the future. I'm just finding that with some of the microtransactions (not just LBP), companies seem to be looking at how high they can reasonably charge - not necessarily the costs, expected sales, and a reasonable markup. I personally didn't buy the Loco Roco set, but I can't imagine that whole set cost them a ton of money in design time - If even 50,000 people bought that one I'd bet they more than doubled their money on it.

I think the frustrating part is that if you broke down a lot of initial games into their DL piece costs and added it up, you'd be paying $100s to buy the game. That indicates to me that either a) the games are under-priced and taking consistent losses, b) the DL content sells at dramatically lower levels than the game (I mean 25% or less of regular sales) or c) the markup on the DL content per time/cost investment is dramatically out of line with the game markup.

It may very well be "b" - maybe the DL content sells at so much lower levels that the costs aren't being distributed to as many people - but my guess is that the costs were simply something the companies think they can get people to pay and are more than willing to rake in obscene profits on the DLC side.

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

Woohoo!

I completely eliminated any and all lag from my Winter Wonderland level.

I've got all the snow emitters connected to proximity triggers (with massive proximities) - so that they only are shooting off when the player is in that area of the level. I connected every single one - completely took away the lag. The level has been republished.

Cool - great solution! I'll check it out this weekend.

[air_max]

Originally Posted by PA_Kid

Unfortunately, if we all buy the DLs, then that really is what the market will bear (regardless of crazy big margins). If we don't, well then we potentially harm the chances of seeing new DLs in the future. I'm just finding that with some of the microtransactions (not just LBP), companies seem to be looking at how high they can reasonably charge - not necessarily the costs, expected sales, and a reasonable markup. I personally didn't buy the Loco Roco set, but I can't imagine that whole set cost them a ton of money in design time - If even 50,000 people bought that one I'd bet they more than doubled their money on it..

i see exactly what you are saying, and to be honest, what they are doing is totally fine with me. why? because in the long run, this is something that is going to support an industry which i enjoy the products they produce. they have found a way to make large profits on something that costs little to them, and little to the individual consumer (as long as they aren't costume obsessed and buy everything they release ).

and maybe this is the future of gaming. developers will release multiple DLC at low costs in order to generate more revenue for the game. we are probably going to see more and more of this because of all the potential revenue. since this is pretty much a new phenomena, its hard to figure out a place to budget for this. instead of putting away $60 for each game, should we put away $70 to account for future DLC we will purchase? maybe we will have to.

i guess what i was simply saying is that it is silly to complain about a $1 price difference in something you want. to me, its like going to a store to buy a sweater that you feel is worth $30, and they are charging $31. if you want the sweater, there is no reason you should not buy it for the extra dollar. and if this is something that will nickel and dime you to death, it is perfectly reasonable to put a little extra time into something to generate funds for yourself to offset the $1 price difference. and if you feel like $31 for the sweater, or $2 for the costume, is too much, then the answer is simply don't buy it. anything else would be silly as well. but the fact that many people do buy it but still complain about the price (which many people have on this board alone) says to me that it is a fair price but you just don't want to pay one more dollar for it. and what i mean by fair is that you are willing to pay what they are asking. it may upset you because you want something else, but its still fair. id love to see video games be $40, but $60 is fair because that is what people are willing to pay.

EDIT: plowmanjoe:

id totally be up for getting those 4 player prizes. there is another level i think, cant remember off the top of my head, that has a spot where you need 4 players. my psn id is in my sig. ill be playing later tonight for sure.

[AikonEnt]

I have no intention of ever buying the costumes. For me they add noting to the game, yes they are cute and funny for a short time but for me your spending 99.9% of the time looking at what to do in the levels not what sackboy is wearing. Mine's had the Kratos costume on since I first played the game and don't really feel the need to change it, if the game had no costumes whatsoever I wouldn't think any less of it. Now if they released some more tools and things to play with when creating my own levels I'd be more interested. I'd like them to release materials that will change shape if not enclosed, i.e. liquids, sand, gravel etc.

[toef]

Originally Posted by air_max

i guess what i was simply saying is that it is silly to complain about a $1 price difference in something you want. to me, its like going to a store to buy a sweater that you feel is worth $30, and they are charging $31. if you want the sweater, there is no reason you should not buy it for the extra dollar. and if this is something that will nickel and dime you to death, it is perfectly reasonable to put a little extra time into something to generate funds for yourself to offset the $1 price difference. and if you feel like $31 for the sweater, or $2 for the costume, is too much, then the answer is simply don't buy it. anything else would be silly as well. but the fact that many people do buy it but still complain about the price (which many people have on this board alone) says to me that it is a fair price but you just don't want to pay one more dollar for it. and what i mean by fair is that you are willing to pay what they are asking. it may upset you because you want something else, but its still fair. id love to see video games be $40, but $60 is fair because that is what people are willing to pay.

It's not though, because it's relative. It's not a dollar that is the big deal, it's that it costs twice as much as it should. So instead of the $30 sweater being $31, imagine it being $60.

[air_max]

Originally Posted by toefer

It's not though, because it's relative. It's not a dollar that is the big deal, it's that it costs twice as much as it should. So instead of the $30 sweater being $31, imagine it being $60.

but the difference is the same.

its fine. theres no need to continue this discussion. bottom line is, if you think $2 is too much for a costume, then just don't buy it.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by AikonEnt

Now if they released some more tools and things to play with when creating my own levels I'd be more interested. I'd like them to release materials that will change shape if not enclosed, i.e. liquids, sand, gravel etc.

That would be cool - but I don't think LBP is capable of complex things like liquids - the physics involved are fairly complex - but it sure would be fun to play with.

[PA_Kid]

Originally Posted by air_max

and maybe this is the future of gaming. developers will release multiple DLC at low costs in order to generate more revenue for the game. we are probably going to see more and more of this because of all the potential revenue. since this is pretty much a new phenomena, its hard to figure out a place to budget for this. instead of putting away $60 for each game, should we put away $70 to account for future DLC we will purchase? maybe we will have to.

I agree, I think we're at the start of a paradigm shift. That can be a scary time.

i guess what i was simply saying is that it is silly to complain about a $1 price difference in something you want. to me, its like going to a store to buy a sweater that you feel is worth $30, and they are charging $31. if you want the sweater, there is no reason you should not buy it for the extra dollar. and if this is something that will nickel and dime you to death, it is perfectly reasonable to put a little extra time into something to generate funds for yourself to offset the $1 price difference. and if you feel like $31 for the sweater, or $2 for the costume, is too much, then the answer is simply don't buy it. anything else would be silly as well. but the fact that many people do buy it but still complain about the price (which many people have on this board alone) says to me that it is a fair price but you just don't want to pay one more dollar for it. and what i mean by fair is that you are willing to pay what they are asking. it may upset you because you want something else, but its still fair. id love to see video games be $40, but $60 is fair because that is what people are willing to pay.

Yeah, I don't mean this to be nasty, but it seems like you're still not getting the point. It's not as much an issue in other industries since competition can keep things in line. I used to prefer going to Benigans over Friday because in my opinion, the food quality was similar, but Benigans was a little cheaper. It doesn't mean I have an issue with spending money on good food or that I need to work a 2nd job or save more to go out to dinner. But I personally hate going to a fancy restaurant and spending a ton of money, only to find out that I could have gotten just as good food at local joint down the street for half the price.

You're right, if I wanted the sweater, $31 wouldn't phase me - the value is still about the same. But I wouldn't pay $60 or $100 for a similar sweater just because it's from Gap or A&F or something - to me the value isn't there.

I think comic books are a similar example - prices keep rising with a current possibility of regular books hitting 3.99 per issue soon. A lot of people have an issue with that not because they can't afford the book, but they are struggling to see why the publishers really need to move from 2.99 to 3.99. And the scary reality is that voting with their wallet could end up stopping the books completely, not lower the price.

I doubt I'll every buy every LBP costume - I will grab ones I like. I just think that they could use to bump up the value in the purchase - as Proteus mentioned, even just a few stickers added in would do it for me.


Here's a crazy idea - you know what I'd love to see added as DLC? A tool that lets you indicate specific costume items in your personal inventory, that if the players come in wearing those, they can get a bonus. Maybe jump a little higher, run a little faster, or stop a little quicker. Maybe treat one material like it's another (penguins on glass? ).

Now the ability to encourage players to all dress up as animals on a Jungle themed level? Now that would add some real value for me.

Edit:
I see your point Max, but I think you are oversimplifying one thing:

but the fact that many people do buy it but still complain about the price (which many people have on this board alone) says to me that it is a fair price but you just don't want to pay one more dollar for it. and what i mean by fair is that you are willing to pay what they are asking. it may upset you because you want something else, but its still fair. id love to see video games be $40, but $60 is fair because that is what people are willing to pay.

By that logic Gas is at a fair price no matter what it is set at - because people will always buy it.

Now if MM let some independent developers sell costumes for LBP at whatever price they want, you're point would be valid. A "fair" price and a "price the market will bear" are not always the same thing - especially when there aren't competing options.

(I'll let this die now)

[AikonEnt]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

That would be cool - but I don't think LBP is capable of complex things like liquids - the physics involved are fairly complex - but it sure would be fun to play with.

Maybe they'll add it to LBP2 There must be things they thought of while making LBP that they're keeping for the next, or didn't have time to fully develop for the first one.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by AikonEnt

Maybe they'll add it to LBP2 There must be things they thought of while making LBP that they're keeping for the next, or didn't have time to fully develop for the first one.

I still think they missed a big part by leaving out things like Power ups, Invincibility, Fireballs, Shields, Superjump, etc.

Running, jumping and swinging along with puzzle elements are fun - but it sure would have been fun to spice it up just that little extra bit.

[AikonEnt]

Well isn't that just peachy. I've just been on LBP and one of my levels has gone, then I get the message 'level bombs, bikes, jump, points has been moderated'. WTF I'll give a brief description of the level (because it is brief) and would be interested to see if anyone has any ideas as to why the level has been 'moderated'.

Right you start off and have to use a jetpack to collect timed explosives to blow through 3 walls, you then jump on some bikes, ride down a big ramp and jump off the end, fall for a bit and land in some points. Then go to the finish. That's it. There's no text bubbles, stickers or anything.

So, anybody have any ideas?

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by AikonEnt

Well isn't that just peachy. I've just been on LBP and one of my levels has gone, then I get the message 'level bombs, bikes, jump, points has been moderated'. WTF I'll give a brief description of the level (because it is brief) and would be interested to see if anyone has any ideas as to why the level has been 'moderated'.

Right you start off and have to use a jetpack to collect timed explosives to blow through 3 walls, you then jump on some bikes, ride down a big ramp and jump off the end, fall for a bit and land in some points. Then go to the finish. That's it. There's no text bubbles, stickers or anything.

So, anybody have any ideas?

I think someone once said that if even one person "tags" it as being offensive or whatever, that it is taken down till one of there people can view and be the morale police and decide if it's acceptable for "families".

I'm beginning to think that people are just being @sses and doing stuff like going around and reporting people's levels and marking levels as "rubbish" etc. It happens in every game that is online - a few ruin it for the masses.

However, the only thing I can think of that might get you moderated is the word "bomb" in your title. Hey, these are sensitive times we live in, who knows any more.

[AikonEnt]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

I think someone once said that if even one person "tags" it as being offensive or whatever, that it is taken down till one of there people can view and be the morale police and decide if it's acceptable for "families".

I'm beginning to think that people are just being @sses and doing stuff like going around and reporting people's levels and marking levels as "rubbish" etc. It happens in every game that is online - a few ruin it for the masses.

However, the only thing I can think of that might get you moderated is the word "bomb" in your title. Hey, these are sensitive times we live in, who knows any more.

I suppose you could be right, if read incorrectly the title could refer to instructions for terrorists! Now you've said about comments I'm leaning towards that, someone probably left a message saying 'hearted, please heart back', and because I haven't (I'm not on there 24/7) they've taken offence at it. Usually I will do it because I have done that message myself (hey, we all want trophies ).

[CYMBOL]

Anyone been able to do much with the PSEye?

They really need to do that rumored update where you can make stickers from photos off your hard drive, cause the PSEye is ABSOLUTELY useless.

The pictures are fuzzy and superlow-res.

Also, why can't I have my personalized stickers look nice. I put them on card board or white wood and they come out all washed out. Even the ones taken from within the game. Before you place it, it looks great - as soon as you stick it on a surface, it looks like cr@p.

They need to include a transperency level tool for your sticker. But most of all they to get rid of the PSEye being used as a low res scanner - cause it just ain't working.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by PA_Kid

Max, I think you mentioned this is part of your post, but lets make something very clear. The concerns that Proteus, Toefer, and I are expressing are NOT about whether we can or cannot afford the $2. The discussion is really about whether we feel the value and cost are in line.

I'm trying to think of a good example on a small scale, but can't. But lets say that suddenly 1 egg cost $2. Sure you could afford it, but does that make it a sensible purchase? If the egg sellers were making 200-300% ROI on the eggs, I think most people would say that is out of line.

Unfortunately, if we all buy the DLs, then that really is what the market will bear (regardless of crazy big margins). If we don't, well then we potentially harm the chances of seeing new DLs in the future. I'm just finding that with some of the microtransactions (not just LBP), companies seem to be looking at how high they can reasonably charge - not necessarily the costs, expected sales, and a reasonable markup. I personally didn't buy the Loco Roco set, but I can't imagine that whole set cost them a ton of money in design time - If even 50,000 people bought that one I'd bet they more than doubled their money on it.

I think the frustrating part is that if you broke down a lot of initial games into their DL piece costs and added it up, you'd be paying $100s to buy the game. That indicates to me that either a) the games are under-priced and taking consistent losses, b) the DL content sells at dramatically lower levels than the game (I mean 25% or less of regular sales) or c) the markup on the DL content per time/cost investment is dramatically out of line with the game markup.

It may very well be "b" - maybe the DL content sells at so much lower levels that the costs aren't being distributed to as many people - but my guess is that the costs were simply something the companies think they can get people to pay and are more than willing to rake in obscene profits on the DLC side.



Cool - great solution! I'll check it out this weekend.

I agree with everything you said. DLC is the enemy!!!

[netguy503]

You dont need 4 players to get the dragon costume- only 3- I've done it a BUNCH of times.It might make it a little bit of an extra jump for one player, but it's VERY doable.

[BorrowedTime]

CYMBOL,

How did you change the colour of the dissolve at the beginning of your level? I looked for a hidden tweak, like on the poison gas, but that didn't work.

BTW, this morning I had the top score on Winter Wonderland.

[owa]

Originally Posted by CYMBOL

I completely eliminated any and all lag from my Winter Wonderland level.

Nice level. Just got through playing it. Did you have to create the bear by scratch or is that a provided prop by the game?

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by BorrowedTime

CYMBOL,

How did you change the colour of the dissolve at the beginning of your level? I looked for a hidden tweak, like on the poison gas, but that didn't work.

BTW, this morning I had the top score on Winter Wonderland.

Yeah, I saw that. You must have found all the prize bubbles, (most people seem to be missing the first one), and you must have went through the Jack Frost race pretty quick. I don't try and get the top scores on my levels - I just play them to make sure they work, so, you're score is will remain at the top unless someone else is quicker than you. (I don't think I've ever beat Jack Frost on the first try - did you?)

As for the dissolve (there is no "tweak") - To achieve it, I used the black rubber at the beginning - but had to alter the camera angle so there was no residual light - once the camera angle becomes normal (straight on), you see hints of light. Then, I used a massive gradiant white sticker (those color stickers that give a gradual colorization). I flipped the gradual white sticker so that it grew more solid at you headed right to left.

Hope that makes sense - and helps you achieve whatever you're trying to do.

Also, I play Littlebigverse, but I got stuck on the ship. It docked and I could not find a way off the ship to complete the level. (Also, it took me a while to figure out how to open the doors - - I'm sure it was clear to everyone but me).

Also, I really liked the flight through space, but I would suggest using dark matter to hang the stars, instead of strings; however, that's a more personal taste of design. It would be time consuming to redo, but I think the effect would be cooler - again, that's just the way "I would do it" and isn't right or wrong.

Also, the first time I played through, I got stuck right at the beginning. I pulled the manhole cover off and somehow I jumped in and got stuck with the cover. I couldn't move and had to restart the level. Pretty funny.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by owa

Nice level. Just got through playing it. Did you have to create the bear by scratch or is that a provided prop by the game?

Are you talking about my deer?

Yeah, the deer was my own design (guess is shows. )
Everything in Winter Wonderland was mine. All the mechanisms (spinning electrical lights), characters, etc. I really try and stay away from using the items provided from the story mode. It won't be any fun if everyone has the same characters and machines - so, as much as it is a pain and time constraint, I'd rather create my own bad guys for people to jump on than just copy and paste in the one's that everyone uses.

Edit: I did use several items in "The Garden at Midnight" (my first level) while learning how to create stuff - but after playing several other user made levels - I quickly realized my level would just be another variation if I used too many. So, I tried using them in different ways (like the jump from waterwheel to waterwheel in the nighttime sky).

[BillCable]

Quick question - any tips for searching for levels? Can you search by author? I'm getting page after page of matches for "Winter Wonderland" but can't find Cymbol's.