LPCM for movies isn't so new after all...

[Krazy]

Doing a little research on movie audio formats, LPCM audio on Blu-Ray is actually a revival of sorts of the defunct Cinema Digital Sound system which was the first digital sound system for movies (predating the current DD/DTS/SDDS). Unfortunately CDS was plagued with reliability problems back then and was discontinued But thanks to Blu-Ray, we can now enjoy the "return" of something that was ahead of it's time

[Mr. Joshua]

That is cool to know. It's kinda like my Bose Acoustic Wave System. It's an all in one unit. Years ago they used to make these cabinet turntable systems with the speakers built in. The top of the cabinet would open up to reveal the turntable. That's just like the Bose Acoustic Wave System of today. The top opens to reveal the CD player. And the speakers are built in... Way cool...

Technology kinda finds it way back to an improved prior form. I love technology, it means so much to me... LOL Chip is singing in the background... Sweet, Awesome, Heck Yeah!!!

[dobyblue]

2 channel PCM was found on Laserdisc and is also quite common on DVD-Video on music concerts.

I have several live concerts on DVD with 5.1 Dolby Digital and 2.0 16/48 or 24/48 tracks.

You will never have the immersive surround experience from an all-in-one unit as you will with properly places speakers.

[frenchglen]

The DVD-Video spec allows for 24-bit/96KHz stereo PCM. It also allows for DTS 96/24, which is a lossy yet high resolution "in-between" 5.1 format. But of course, DVD could not fit them on movie discs with the video taking up too much room. Apparently the Italian version of Tomb Raider has DTS 96/24, but that's about it!

There are some music discs (like Bjork's albums) with DTS 96/24, and also DAD discs, or HDAD (with a DVD-Audio track on the other side) which have stereo PCM, but it never succeeded in the market. Until people can be proven wrong with blu-ray, they will still believe that CD sound is "perfect".

Blu-ray (and uh...yes...also, um...HD...uh...DVD) is the first format to fit high quality video AND audio. About time.

[dobyblue]

Peter Gabriel's "Play : The Videos" has a DTS 96/24 track on it.

The reason you won't see two channel 24/96 PCM is because it takes up 4.6 Mbps. That's too much for DVD.

AFAIK there's no PCM on DVD-V above 24/48 2.0

There are several great 24/96 releases including Blue Men Group, Simple Minds, Queen, etc.

They're good, but they don't come close to SACD's fidelity in my opinion.

[Krazy]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

2 channel PCM was found on Laserdisc and is also quite common on DVD-Video on music concerts.

I have several live concerts on DVD with 5.1 Dolby Digital and 2.0 16/48 or 24/48 tracks.

You will never have the immersive surround experience from an all-in-one unit as you will with properly places speakers.

True, I should have said "Multichannel LPCM" to clear things up a bit Either way, I say the demise of CDS set audio quality back by over a decade as Dolby Digital with thier paltry (and harsh shounding, IMO) 320Kbps (vs. the 5Mbps of CDS) became the most common digital format for theatrical presentation

[Sir Terrence]

Originally Posted by Krazy

Doing a little research on movie audio formats, LPCM audio on Blu-Ray is actually a revival of sorts of the defunct Cinema Digital Sound system which was the first digital sound system for movies (predating the current DD/DTS/SDDS). Unfortunately CDS was plagued with reliability problems back then and was discontinued But thanks to Blu-Ray, we can now enjoy the "return" of something that was ahead of it's time

Well close and in the ball park but not quite what blu-ray offers. You are correct, CDS did use PCM. However it was confined to 16/44.1khz, and not the variable sample and bit rate we currently have. There is a possibility you could see concert video's with 24/96khz 5.1 PCM tracks, but CDS could never support it while it was around.

CDS also didn't support a very robust error correction system as well. This is why it didn't do so well in the field, and without a analog backup eventually discontinued being used. The one good thing about CDS is that it made Dolby speed up its DD codec developement, or we probably would not have seen it as soon as 1992. Dolby did not want CDS to get any traction before it released its lossy codec to the film industry. I am sure it would have never had widespread use if CDS had a more robust error correction system, and analog backup within the system.

[frenchglen]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Peter Gabriel's "Play : The Videos" has a DTS 96/24 track on it.

The reason you won't see two channel 24/96 PCM is because it takes up 4.6 Mbps. That's too much for DVD.

AFAIK there's no PCM on DVD-V above 24/48 2.0

There are several great 24/96 releases including Blue Men Group, Simple Minds, Queen, etc.

They're good, but they don't come close to SACD's fidelity in my opinion.

At Classic Records, www.classicrecs.com, you will find these "DAD and "HDAD" discs. Look at their catalog and you will find dozens of these discs. HDAD, or "Hybrid Digital Audio Disc" is essentially a dvd-audio on one side, and high res-stereo on the dvd-video side. DAD is just a one-sided dvd-video.

The DVD-V spec can allow for 24-bit/96KHz stereo PCM. It falls within the spec's maximum bit-rate. It's only coaxial/toslink that can't handle it (it maxes out at 1.5mbps). All you need is either analog out (on ALL DVD players), or much more desirably, hdmi out. There's nothing stopping an audio track of 4.6Mbps on the DVD-V layer, as long as it theoretically fits within the total limit. The spec has a theoretical limit of 9.8Mbps for video and total limit of 10.8Mbps, but practical rates are usually around 7.4Mbps.

I have bought one of these HDADs and the DVD-Video side worked in my old Sony DVD player using analog outs. But really, there's not much point at all with these HDADs, if you like 24-bit audio you probably have a DVD-Audio and SACD player anyway. Still, it's interesting and takes advantage of one of the mysterious capabilities of DVD-Video, even if somewhat pointless.

I suppose then the other reason why DVD can't handle DTS 96/24 for mainstream movies is the bit-rate limitations as well as the limited space. And I wouldn't compare DTS 96/24 to SACD any day! Now comparing it to CD - that's more interesting. I think despite it lossyness, the 24-bit core shines throughout.

[groovyone]

My 10 year old receiver supports PCM, but only seems to support the 2 channel variety. I was excited to see it could handle it, but then disappointed it was not the 5.1.