Unforgiven 4K UHD (1992)

[LRSIII]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Mine says "shipping soon," but it's definitely shipping later than everything else I'm getting tomorrow. I would guess demand has outweighed supply, which seems to happen pretty often with UHDs.

Mine still says "pre-ordered," but also says "arriving tomorrow by 8 pm." I pre-ordered it from Amazon on October 12. If your status says "shipping soon," I'll bet you're ahead of me in the queue.

[timbobarry]

Amazon shipped mine out for delivery tomorrow. I did order it when Amazon first listed it near the end of last year.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by LRSIII

Mine still says "pre-ordered," but also says "arriving tomorrow by 8 pm." I pre-ordered it from Amazon on October 12. If your status says "shipping soon," I'll bet you're ahead of me in the queue.

I ordered March 24th.

[smackrabbit]

I'll chime in as I'm watching Unforgiven right now. I have to agree with most of what Robert Harris says. In many scenes, there is just lots of noise and tons of shadow crush. Some scenes look good, some are full of noise and look awful. Some look fine, but overall the image offers very little to improve upon the Blu-ray. The flim is fantastic, of course, but completely in need of a new transfer.

Which is sad, since I just finished watching Resident Evil: The Final Chapter which is a bad film, but the UHD disc is almost flawless. It's bland at the beginning but that's a visual choice. It's sharp, detailed, and uses HDR wonderfully.

I just replaced my display with a Sony A1E OLED that I calibrated so it's pretty much as good as you can get for an HDR display today.

[Geoff D]

OLED has proven issues with noise in near-black content so with all due respect I'll wait to see it for myself. This is why I mentioned that RAH's choice of an OLED for his next direct-view display may not have been the best choice as far as objective assessment is concerned.

And even if Unforgiven didn't have any issues like these I still wouldn't go comparing a 25-year-old Western shot on film to a modern-day sci-fi/horror romp shot on 5K RED.

[Khronikos]

It's worth noting the film has never looked great. I thought this was a new 4K scan. Is it not?

[Khronikos]

Originally Posted by HDvision

Yeah? Why is there no blanket green tint on the DCP then?.

You have no clue how things are done on the inside.

I'm not arguing that the original looked like this.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

OLED has proven issues with noise in near-black content so with all due respect I'll wait to see it for myself. This is why I mentioned that RAH's choice of an OLED for his next direct-view display may not have been the best choice as far as objective assessment is concerned.

And even if Unforgiven didn't have any issues like these I still wouldn't go comparing a 25-year-old Western shot on film to a modern-day sci-fi/horror romp shot on 5K RED.

While I'm on the subject, HDTVtest have reviewed the latest LG B7 and although they do note the improvement in near-black handling they also remark that the EOTF is still tracking well below the target luminance especially with 4000-nit content, so such HDR10 presentations may appear darker than they otherwise should be. Sony's tracking of the PQ EOTF appears to be improved on the A1 according to the AVF review, but it'll be interesting to see what the HDTVtest review of the A1 measures with the exact same testing methodology.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/oled5...1705074461.htm

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by jh901

movies are not intended to be viewed on 65" 16:9 diagonal postage stamps.

This is the most hilarious thing I've read in a long time. God bless you all and your personal movie theaters.

[jh901]

Originally Posted by smackrabbit

Which is sad, since I just finished watching Resident Evil: The Final Chapter which is a bad film, but the UHD disc is almost flawless.

So, why wasn't Unforgiven filmed with a Red Epic Dragon camera? Gotta blame the DP for going with 35mm film (back in 1992).

[jh901]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

This is the most hilarious thing I've read in a long time. God bless you all and your personal movie theaters.

We need more "smug" in social media. We need more logical fallacy as well.

Why not put some thought into something you presumably care about? For example, you can read page after page about newest tech acronym which is going deliver that super duper, extra special image that you've always dreamed of. Gotta buy a new panel and, oh yeah, a new disc spinner. And for sound, well, have we got news! More speakers. More acronyms. More processing. Buy this new AVR with the extra special acronym!

All the while, the real fix is something entirely different. Even if inconvenient. So go ahead and mock sincere members. It feels so good!

[Dreamliner330]

Anyone know if Best Buy will sell this tomorrow or where I can prove tomorrow is the release date?

[smackrabbit]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

While I'm on the subject, HDTVtest have reviewed the latest LG B7 and although they do note the improvement in near-black handling they also remark that the EOTF is still tracking well below the target luminance especially with 4000-nit content, so such HDR10 presentations may appear darker than they otherwise should be. Sony's tracking of the PQ EOTF appears to be improved on the A1 according to the AVF review, but it'll be interesting to see what the HDTVtest review of the A1 measures with the exact same testing methodology.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/oled5...1705074461.htm

I've actually been talking to Vincent all weekend about the A1E as we are both testing it right now. For reference, here is the HDTVTest data on the C7 for 4000 nits (which Unforgiven is mastered at):



And here is how the Sony A1E handles that:



As you can see the Sony handles that lower level tone mapping very differently than LG. The reason I picked the Sony over the LG is the superior tone mapping they use for HDR. Other titles have had no black crush on the Sony. Unforgiven just looks bad on UHD in many scenes. Some are fine, some look really bad with lots of detail missing.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

Anyone know if Best Buy will sell this tomorrow or where I can prove tomorrow is the release date?

We have it in store tomorrow but not many. My store only got 2 copies.

[TwistedAmnesia]

Originally Posted by jh901

We need more "smug" in social media. We need more logical fallacy as well.

Why not put some thought into something you presumably care about? For example, you can read page after page about newest tech acronym which is going deliver that super duper, extra special image that you've always dreamed of. Gotta buy a new panel and, oh yeah, a new disc spinner. And for sound, well, have we got news! More speakers. More acronyms. More processing. Buy this new AVR with the extra special acronym!

All the while, the real fix is something entirely different. Even if inconvenient. So go ahead and mock sincere members. It feels so good!

Excuse me, but I think your E-peen is showing

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by smackrabbit

The flim is fantastic, of course, but completely in need of a new transfer.

Uhh, this is the new transfer.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

While I'm on the subject, HDTVtest have reviewed the latest LG B7 and although they do note the improvement in near-black handling they also remark that the EOTF is still tracking well below the target luminance especially with 4000-nit content, so such HDR10 presentations may appear darker than they otherwise should be. Sony's tracking of the PQ EOTF appears to be improved on the A1 according to the AVF review, but it'll be interesting to see what the HDTVtest review of the A1 measures with the exact same testing methodology.

I am not knocking OLED or projection at all. If I could leverage that kind of money from the wife's icy grip I would own one. However it really does seem like HDR (or HDR 10 at least) was designed more around high-end LCDs. No near-black issues, much higher brightness. I think that's a factor in most pro-reviews and a lot of forum posts on the subject. That HomeTheaterForum thread on Unforgiven is just full of endless OLED circle-jerking, but they're all watching 4,000 nit masters on 600 nit displays with no dynamic metadata.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by smackrabbit

I've actually been talking to Vincent all weekend about the A1E as we are both testing it right now. For reference, here is the HDTVTest data on the C7 for 4000 nits (which Unforgiven is mastered at):

[Show spoiler]

And here is how the Sony A1E handles that:

As you can see the Sony handles that lower level tone mapping very differently than LG. The reason I picked the Sony over the LG is the superior tone mapping they use for HDR. Other titles have had no black crush on the Sony. Unforgiven just looks bad on UHD in many scenes. Some are fine, some look really bad with lots of detail missing.

Yeah, I saw the graph in the review I linked as well as the AVF one, the Sony does indeed appear to track the EOTF far closely than the LG until the natural brightness limits of the tech are reached, natch. I'd still like to see what HDTVtest's 1000/4000 methodology uncovers but it looks much better.

Still not convinced about near black performance though, for as improved as it undoubtedly is with previous torture tests (be interesting to see certain shots in La La Land UHD on the 2017 OLEDs) there may yet be content which trips it up because not every movie is gonna be mastered the same. I've got a ZD9 coming on Thursday and the UK Unforgiven won't be released for another week, but I'll be sure to chip in once I get it. If I see noise and strangled blacks then I'll say so, if I don't then I won't.

[vincentric]

Dynamic contrast on low (w/adjusted oled light, contrast and colors) to me massively improves the LG C6's subpar HDR10 processing but truth be told, if it weren't for its fantastic 3D image I probably would've sold the C6 by now for either a Sony Z9D or 930E.

Geoffy, enjoy the new telly. Yer gonna have to rewatch all your UHDs on that ZD9 beast.

[ncraft]

Ordered my copy from Amazon on March 10th. It still says shipping soon and arriving by 8:00pm tonight. Hopefully I'll get it by Friday but I'm not holding my breath.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by jh901

We need more "smug" in social media. We need more logical fallacy as well.



Why not put some thought into something you presumably care about? For example, you can read page after page about newest tech acronym which is going deliver that super duper, extra special image that you've always dreamed of. Gotta buy a new panel and, oh yeah, a new disc spinner. And for sound, well, have we got news! More speakers. More acronyms. More processing. Buy this new AVR with the extra special acronym!



All the while, the real fix is something entirely different. Even if inconvenient. So go ahead and mock sincere members. It feels so good!

Isn't it rather smug to refer to 65" displays as 'postage stamps', though? Pot calling the kettle black. Condescension to the max.

And that's what my initial response to you was about... a response to that specific comment. You then went on some sales pitch to tell me how much better projection is and if I had only tried it, then I'd see the light.

But I never was knocking projection, nor had I said watching movies at a much larger size was somehow silly. All I was saying is that 65" is still plenty big, especially when you want to compare it to being the size of a postage stamp.