Unforgiven (1992) (Remastered)

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by HuggyBear73

Hometheaterforum's review said the 4K UHD ain't that much better than the 4K blu-ray. He even goes on to say that the blu-ray looks so good that Warner Bros. shouldn't have even bothered putting out a 4K UHD of UNFORGIVEN. Just another reason why I'm not upgrading to 4K UHD.

He's wrong, and a big reason he's wrong is he's using a projector which doesn't really handle HDR correctly. Also even if Unforgiven was somehow worse than the BD that doesn't mean all the other UHDs are too. As someone who owns 50 of them I can tell you that most movies, on the right display, are dramatically improved.

But tell yourself whatever you have to I guess.

[HuggyBear73]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

He's wrong, and a big reason he's wrong is he's using a projector which doesn't really handle HDR correctly. Also even if Unforgiven was somehow worse than the BD that doesn't mean all the other UHDs are too. As someone who owns 50 of them I can tell you that most movies, on the right display, are dramatically improved.

But tell yourself whatever you have to I guess.

Also, Logan Toxic on youtube said it aint much better than the blu-ray.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by HuggyBear73

Also, Logan Toxic on youtube said it aint much better than the blu-ray.

Well if Logan Toxic says so, it MUST be true!

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Warner's 4K remasters have been so great that I really wish they would've been the ones that remastered Heat instead of Fox (which I'm pretty sure is the company that "remastered" Heat).

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Just did a comparison between the previous release and the new one and it's no contest that the new one wins. The previous release is plagued with what looks to be EE and bad compression. The new one is cleaned up, gorgeously detailed and filmic.

[Member-167298]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

Just did a comparison between the previous release and the new one and it's no contest that the new one wins. The previous release is plagued with what looks to be EE and bad compression. The new one is cleaned up, gorgeously detailed and filmic.

Well, sounds like it is time for me to finally (I know, I know) check out Unforgiven!

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

He's wrong, and a big reason he's wrong is he's using a projector which doesn't really handle HDR correctly. Also even if Unforgiven was somehow worse than the BD that doesn't mean all the other UHDs are too. As someone who owns 50 of them I can tell you that most movies, on the right display, are dramatically improved.

But tell yourself whatever you have to I guess.

There are people on these forums who live to see UHD die. Not gonna bother speculating on the reasons. Just gotta accept it and move on. No point talking to a wall.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

There are people on these forums who live to see UHD die. Not gonna bother speculating on the reasons. Just gotta accept it and move on. No point talking to a wall.

I don't think it's that so much. I think it's more of this sudden opinion that blu ray sucks now (atleast as how I've perceived it), like it's a blu ray vs. DVD situation, that UHD is out which isn't the case at all. There's a lot of factors that go into it like having to buy a new player and TV and replacing blu ray collections with UHD releases now which is very costly right now atleast. It's strange that they just put the blu ray and UHD together instead of selling them separately which made it much more expensive for those who just want the blu ray.

I'm not against UHD at all but I still find blu ray to be a fantastic format even if UHD is an improvement to a degree.

[infiniteCR]

People should just go try UHD out and decide for themselves. A nice side effect is that upgrading your equipment makes bluray look even better. Getting a calibrated OLED made my bluray collection feel like it had changed formats. The difference in quality from upgrading my equipment was a bigger change than when I was comparing the two formats if I am honest with myself.


This release pulling the shenanigan where they force you to buy something is uncool though. I am sure lots of people would be upset if they were forced to buy the 3D version of a movie just to get the regular bluray. I don't like how the bluray 'later in the year' hasn't been announced more properly.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

People should just go try UHD out and decide for themselves. A nice side effect is that upgrading your equipment makes bluray look even better. Getting a calibrated OLED made my bluray collection feel like it had changed formats. The difference in quality from upgrading my equipment was a bigger change than when I was comparing the two formats if I am honest with myself.


This release pulling the shenanigan where they force you to buy something is uncool though. I am sure lots of people would be upset if they were forced to buy the 3D version of a movie just to get the regular bluray. I don't like how the bluray 'later in the year' hasn't been announced more properly.

I can't even calibrate my television properly.

I lack the skills and the motivation to put the time in.

[kidglov3s]

When people are talking about calibration they're generally meaning pay someone hundreds of dollars to come to your home with special equipment, (or buying the very expensive equipment and learning to do it yourself). You can use references and eyeball it but that wouldn't be calibrating to spec without all the shit. I don't keep up with things on a day-to-day basis but I was not aware that that could even be done at home 100% to spec with DCI-P3 and Rec 2020 yet (for UHD), as it can be done with Rec 709 (for HD).

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

I can't even calibrate my television properly.

I lack the skills and the motivation to put the time in.

Not sure if you're serious but I'm the same way. I was watching Phenomena last night and decided to play around with the settings a bit (I thought the picture looked too dark set at "Movie"). A lot of people swear 'Dynamic" should be the last setting anyone should choose but I thought the film looked best in the Dynamic mode. What do I know And these are just the "easy" settings - I try to avoid messing around with things like brightness, hues or sharpness at all costs . I've actually thought of hiring one of those ISF guys to calibrate my set professionally but even that seems like a daunting task.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by cine74

Not sure if you're serious but I'm the same way. I was watching Phenomena last night and decided to play around with the settings a bit (I thought the picture looked too dark set at "Movie"). A lot of people swear 'Dynamic" should be the last setting anyone should choose but I thought the film looked best in the Dynamic mode. What do I know And these are just the "easy" settings - I try to avoid messing around with things like brightness, hues or sharpness at all costs . I've actually thought of hiring one of those ISF guys to calibrate my set professionally but even that seems like a daunting task.

I'm not joking at all.

I don't even have a nice television...just a little 32 inch, 720p Panasonic.

So I figure, why even bother?

How much better can it really look than the settings it came with?

I turned the brightness down a bit, but that's about it.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

I don't think it's that so much. I think it's more of this sudden opinion that blu ray sucks now (atleast as how I've perceived it), like it's a blu ray vs. DVD situation, that UHD is out which isn't the case at all. There's a lot of factors that go into it like having to buy a new player and TV and replacing blu ray collections with UHD releases now which is very costly right now atleast. It's strange that they just put the blu ray and UHD together instead of selling them separately which made it much more expensive for those who just want the blu ray.

I'm not against UHD at all but I still find blu ray to be a fantastic format even if UHD is an improvement to a degree.

I don't think anyone's saying Blu-ray sucks (if they are, I don't agree with that), but if there's a UHD of a film available, I think that becomes the default way to watch it. There are some UHDs that don't look amazing but other than maybe Suicide Squad I think all the ones I've seen (around 40+) offer at least a marginal (and usually substantial) improvement over the BD. And I'm not even using a top-of-the-line setup. I understand wanting to wait things out until Dolby Vision becomes more pervasive or prices come down, but the people who say things like "2K DIs are trash" or "UHD doesn't offer any improvement" are just spreading disinformation and wanting/hoping for the format to die.

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

I don't think anyone's saying Blu-ray sucks (if they are, I don't agree with that), but if there's a UHD of a film available, I think that becomes the default way to watch it. There are some UHDs that don't look amazing but other than maybe Suicide Squad I think all the ones I've seen (around 40+) offer at least a marginal (and usually substantial) improvement over the BD. And I'm not even using a top-of-the-line setup. I understand wanting to wait things out until Dolby Vision becomes more pervasive or prices come down, but the people who say things like "2K DIs are trash" or "UHD doesn't offer any improvement" are just spreading disinformation and wanting/hoping for the format to die.

Yeah you bring up good points. I personally haven't been able to do a proper comparison between the 2 formats so I can't say how much more improved UHD is. I've read a good amount of posts from members of both sides who say it is an improvement and others who say its not that much to do the full overhaul on upgrading to not even really telling a difference so it just makes the consensus very mixed. I just bought a new TV too so I definitely have no desire to upgrade anytime soon.

I do read a lot of posts from members though along the lines of no UHD no sale. That's how I get my impression that people think blu ray is no good anymore.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

Yeah you bring up good points. I personally haven't been able to do a proper comparison between the 2 formats so I can't say how much more improved UHD is. I've read a good amount of posts from members of both sides who say it is an improvement and others who say its not that much to do the full overhaul on upgrading to not even really telling a difference so it just makes the consensus very mixed. I just bought a new TV too so I definitely have no desire to upgrade anytime soon.

I do read a lot of posts from members though along the lines of no UHD no sale. That's how I get my impression that people think blu ray is no good anymore.

Yeah and that's not a philosophy I agree with. Frankly UHD is never gonna be a format that we should assume every movie is due for release on. Obviously it's disappointing when some genuinely excellent and visually incredible movies don't get UHDs (looking at you, Nocturnal Animals and Moonlight), but then again there's a good argument to make that there wouldn't be much of a market for those on UHD anyway. I still bought both those BDs lol, at the end of the day they're excellent movies and BD is still a damn fine way to watch them. (And on the off chance they do get UHDs down the road, I'll upgrade them.)

People who say "no UHD, no sale" for Disney titles have a point, though.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

I don't think it's that so much. I think it's more of this sudden opinion that blu ray sucks now (atleast as how I've perceived it), like it's a blu ray vs. DVD situation, that UHD is out which isn't the case at all.

This is pretty much where I'm coming from.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by MassiveMovieBuff

I don't think it's that so much. I think it's more of this sudden opinion that blu ray sucks now (atleast as how I've perceived it), like it's a blu ray vs. DVD situation, that UHD is out which isn't the case at all.

I've noticed that there are definitely some snobby people here who claim that UHD is a "drastic" improvement over normal blu ray, and if you don't believe that it is, then your equipment is not good enough. Even if you tell them that you've been to various electronics stores many times to watch UHD demos that are meant to make the technology look as appealing as possible on super expensive equipment that at least some of must be properly calibrated. And if you still aren't of the opinion that it is a "drastic" difference over ordinary HD, they're still like "There's gotta be something wrong with the equipment".

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

I've noticed that there are definitely some snobby people here who claim that UHD is a "drastic" improvement over normal blu ray, and if you don't believe that it is, then your equipment is not good enough. Even if you tell them that you've been to various electronics stores many times to watch UHD demos that are meant to make the technology look as appealing as possible on super expensive equipment that at least some of must be properly calibrated. And if you still aren't of the opinion that it is a "drastic" difference over ordinary HD, they're still like "There's gotta be something wrong with the equipment".

Yeah, it's frustrating. I made the concession above that my own equipment is not good enough to display HDR correctly, but the fact remains that I have seen it on displays in store as well. I've seen what the advocates are talking about. I've seen the deeper blacks, the brilliant highlights, the wider spectrum of colors, etc. But I just don't agree that it makes Blu-ray "flat" or "unwatchable" or whatever else they want to say.

I suppose you can get used to the advances that UHD offers, and then you'll want more of that. But why can't I choose just to be happy with Blu-ray? It's a great format that looks stunning on my set. I also get frustrated with the DVD comparisons. That's false equivalency. DVDs did not looks this good on my HD set when I got it. I upgraded to BD because of the shortcomings of DVD, not because I needed "the very, very best".

I presume the time will come when HDR becomes widespread - when it's used in broadcasts, phones, tablets, computers, etc. But when will that be? Will UHD Blu-ray even still be around by then? Or will streaming/digital downloads have taken over? I don't particularly want that, but why should I invest in something now that I neither feel the desire for, nor can guarantee will even be around by the time HDR becomes a typical part of home media (if it does). And, of course, even if I did, I don't have the equipment to take full advantage of it.

I don't have anything against people who are fully into UHD Blu-ray. I really don't. I just wish I'd stop hearing how behind the times I am for "only" supporting Blu-ray and how I need to "see the light". It's just nonsense.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Yeah, it's frustrating. I made the concession above that my own equipment is not good enough to display HDR correctly, but the fact remains that I have seen it on displays in store as well. I've seen what the advocates are talking about. I've seen the deeper blacks, the brilliant highlights, the wider spectrum of colors, etc. But I just don't agree that it makes Blu-ray "flat" or "unwatchable" or whatever else they want to say.

It is a "once you get used to it..." thing, for sure. What I mean by "flat" isn't that blus look bad really, it's that when you adjust to the deeper, richer look of HDR it's hard not to look at blu-rays and think "this would look better with HDR." It's something you can't help.

In the Mummy Returns for example, there's a scene with the mummy in a warehouse with fire all around. On the UHD it looks so rich and lifelike, the creature lit only by flames and darkness in the nooks and crannies. On BD the whole image is bright, the fire looks flat and like it's not really illuminating the scene, which makes it look unnatural. Little things like that become hard to ignore the more you get used to it.

I don't have anything against people who are fully into UHD Blu-ray. I really don't. I just wish I'd stop hearing how behind the times I am for "only" supporting Blu-ray and how I need to "see the light". It's just nonsense.

It's likely a combo of excited adopters wanting to push the format and people who don't want to feel like they're left behind or looked back on. I get it, we all have to struggle to articulate well. I don't think blu-rays are bad, I own 1400+ of them. However just like DVD and BD, it's true there's a better format on the block, and people are gonna be excited about it. Especially when a homerun comes out like the Mummy trilogy. Unforgiven is more a subtle upgrade.