Blade Runner 4K UHD (1982)

[Joshitaka]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

I just checked BB and it says that more won't be in stock until perhaps November.

Try using in store pick up. That's what I did. Blade Runner and the Professional.

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by Joshitaka

Try using in store pick up. That's what I did. Blade Runner and the Professional.

It's funny that you've mentioned Leon, because I ordered it about an hour ago from BB. Like Blade Runner, it wasn't available for in-store pickup at a location near me that I prefer and so I selected the delivery option; it should arrive next week. As for Blade Runner, I didn't order it because it won't be in stock any time soon.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Folks are right that this won't be Blade Runner's last dance on home video. There will be more to come, the question will be if the Final Cut gets a new 4K encode to go along with it and this being Warners, well, it's a long shot. But then Dolby Vision, if it transpires to be the HDR killer app over the coming years, might be enough of a selling point. Hell, gimme the 4K Final Cut with a competent encode (DV on a 100GB disc...drool) and the same janky audio and I could live with that. I could also work around the iffy video encoding if the sound was more respectful to the prior Final Cut mix (is this the Even Finaler Cut?). But the two together are so jarring it sets my teeth on edge.

Sorry to hear you didn't like the disc Geoff. Can't say I noticed any of the visual issues you're describing. We disagree on other grainy UHDs though so maybe it's simply a taste thing. You always talk about refining and resolving grain to the point it's barely visible sometimes, whereas I want to see that grainy goodness!

Gotta say mild sharpening isn't something I usually notice or mind too much (see: Shout's recent The Thing and Firestarter releases). Wouldn't surprise me if they used it a little for a 10 year old remaster, but I didn't notice it watching the UHD disc, which I thought looked stunning from start to finish. I definitely notice when sharpness isn't mild, but that's not the case here thankfully. Did not notice compression issues either, which I think I would? Macroblocking is one of the main reasons I still buy discs.

I do agree the new sound mix sounds too different though, said that myself before. I thought that was likely because I downmix to headphones, but maybe not.

[Frank@Chicago]

While watching the UHD, I noticed how some characters had 'Red Eye' effect.

It almost seemed like it was used as a tip-off as to who was a replicant.

I never noticed that before on older video releases...except maybe on the owl.

[JohnCarpenterFan]

Originally Posted by Frank@Chicago

While watching the UHD, I noticed how some characters had 'Red Eye' effect.

It almost seemed like it was used as a tip-off as to who was a replicant.

I never noticed that before on older video releases...except maybe on the owl.

It was. Pretty sure they've been in all releases dating back to the original theatrical release.

[Caleb C.]

Yep, it was filmed that way. From Cinematography for Blade Runner, page 2:

Colored lights were also occasionally used to create a special effect for the replicant's eyes: "One of the identifying characteristics of replicants is a strange glowing quality in their eyes," Cronenweth notes. "To achieve this effect, we'd use a two-way mirror — 50 percent transmission, 50 percent reflection — placed in front of the lens at a 45-degree angle. Then we'd project a light into the mirror so that it would be reflected into the eyes of the subject along the optical axis of the lens. We'd sometimes use very subtle gels to add color to the eyes. Often, we'd photograph a scene with and without this effect, so Ridley would have the option of when he'd use it."

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

Crazy, isn't it?

This is very interesting and everything from questions about how it's technically possible for me and others similarly situated to not be seeing this to speculations about possible "throttling" have crossed my mind. (It was Warner Bros. that sued many Amazon Marketplace sellers, bringing about the Marketplace restriction of DVD sales with MSRPs in excess of $24.99 to "approved" sellers.)

In the former regard, can you please look to see if an ASIN (Amazon Services Identification Number) is listed, perhaps under the "Product details" section (at the bottom of your second screenshot)? I'm wanting to see if the ASIN is the same or different from the product listing I'm seeing (with ASIN B073C1ZYW9).

I suppose it's because I'm not a Fresh customer yet that is the reason I'm not seeing this. But why wouldn't they program the search engine to return that listing as a hit when I search for "blade runner 4k uhd blu-ray"? If nothing else it could generate new Fresh customers.

What's troubling is that it appears that Amazon, almost certainly with the participation (collusion?) of Warner, have been basically representing that this release is not available via Amazon proper for a couple of weeks now when that is not the case.

[EinCB128]

If some expert posters are predicting there's going to be a more impressive 4K edition in a couple of years, I think I'm going to remain with my DVD Collector's Edition for a couple of more years!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Sorry to hear you didn't like the disc Geoff. Can't say I noticed any of the visual issues you're describing. We disagree on other grainy UHDs though so maybe it's simply a taste thing. You always talk about refining and resolving grain to the point it's barely visible sometimes, whereas I want to see that grainy goodness!

Gotta say mild sharpening isn't something I usually notice or mind too much (see: Shout's recent The Thing and Firestarter releases). Wouldn't surprise me if they used it a little for a 10 year old remaster, but I didn't notice it watching the UHD disc, which I thought looked stunning from start to finish. I definitely notice when sharpness isn't mild, but that's not the case here thankfully. Did not notice compression issues either, which I think I would? Macroblocking is one of the main reasons I still buy discs.

I do agree the new sound mix sounds too different though, said that myself before. I thought that was likely because I downmix to headphones, but maybe not.

If it was just regular grain I was seeing I wouldn't be saying anything, e.g. the CE3K thread. But when you get ugly blocks of pink and green noise gambol about on people's faces, that's something else. If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes...

As for the audio, I noted a few more changes: when Deck first arrives at Tyrell the sounds of the owl taking off, swooping across and landing are completely different. When Deck's on the Esper machine looking at the photo the very last zoom-in that he does on Zhora's face alters the classic camera shutter-style sound to something resembling a clacking typewriter - only it's just that one bit as the rest of the scene has the proper Esper sound effects. During this scene the sounds of all the noises whooshing outside have been brought way up too, I mean the scene starts out that way even on the FC 5.1 mix but as the camera moves in tighter and tighter on Deck's face the background noises are progressively dialed back, likely to indicate Deck's concentration just as the tighter camera angles are, but on the new mix the swooping and the wooshing just carries on at the same volume throughout the scene. Nuance? What nuance? Let's fill the sound field to the brim just because we can! Make surround sound great again!

Dug out my SPL meter too, the new mix played in 7.1 is a good 4-5dB hotter than the previous FC 5.1 mix. There's no dialnorm at work here, it really IS that much louder than the old mix as well as having all the alterations and complete readjustment of the interplay of DME in general. I've gotta say, if Scott had any hand in this at all then I know he's finally gone around the bend, not that Prometheus and Covenant weren't glaring indicators to begin with.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Caleb C.

Yep, it was filmed that way. From Cinematography for Blade Runner, page 2:

On the UHD I noticed something I'd never seen before: in one of the close-ups of Holden during the Leon interrogation you can just see this 'replicant' effect in one of his eyes. Given that they shot scenes with and without this lighting to give Ridley the choice of deciding who's what in post, it's not surprising that it was used on people other than Deck and the Reps.

Watched The Condensed Cut a.k.a. the 'Deleted and Alternate Scene' last night. I spit on metaphysics, sir!

[NotASpeckOfCereal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

On the UHD I noticed something I'd never seen before: in one of the close-ups of Holden during the Leon interrogation you can just see this 'replicant' effect in one of his eyes.

I've noticed it with Deckard (as most of us have), but not with Holden -- I'll look for that next time. But if Deckard's a replicant, it wouldn't be a surprise to find that Holden is too.

"Model #7, standard Blade Runner issue, cleans up their own, incept date ..."

Maybe we'll find out more about that next week when BR2049 comes out.

Chris
.

[gates70]

So the masses have been saying how beautiful the PQ and AQ is on this release for a while, and now that 2 people here are saying otherwise, people are changing their story ? Ok then....

[Jason One]

Originally Posted by gates70

So the masses have been saying how beautiful the PQ and AQ is on this release for a while, and now that 2 people here are saying otherwise, people are changing their story ? Ok then....

Or, it demonstrates how oblivious those masses can be to changes and problems with a release. Sometimes it just takes one person to call them out.

I thought the audio seemed a little "off" on my first viewing, but I thought it might be specific to the 2.0 setup I'm temporarily using. It's good to know it's not just me.

One moment that sounded strange to me was Deckard yelling "Move! Get out of the way!" when he's chasing Zhora. Did they add a bunch of reverb there? I'll have to compare it to the old mix.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Jason One

Or, it demonstrates how oblivious those masses can be to changes and problems with a release. Sometimes it just takes one person to call them out.

I thought the audio seemed a little "off" on my first viewing, but I thought it might be specific to the 2.0 setup I'm temporarily using. It's good to know it's not just me.

One moment that sounded strange to me was Deckard yelling "Move! Get out of the way!" when he's chasing Zhora. Did they add a bunch of reverb there? I'll have to compare it to the old mix.

Yes, if you listen to the new mix in stereo or faux 5.1 surround (thru a soundbar or whatever) then that bit can sound super echoey.

[Vangeli]

Watched this again last night with the family (2049 prep!) at a higher volume for maximum fun and I noticed the audio echoed a lot more than I remember, especially in the rear channels. That made some of it very difficult to understand.

Still, I enjoyed the heck out of it.

[Geoff D]

This is not a mix that downsizes particularly well.

[Ebab]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes, if you listen to the new mix in stereo or faux 5.1 surround (thru a soundbar or whatever) then that bit can sound super echoey.

I remember that phrase always had had a bit of emphasis by way of echo. "Super echoey" (and I trust your judgement) sounds worrisome to me though, as are other notions of over-emphasis on sound effects (like the, admittedly, important rain, which still should not dominate a scene).

I remember the restauration of "Vertigo" that had just too much emphasis on the new foley work, with every last rustle of a newspaper startling you, and way too much spatial definition on every step from Miss Novak's heels walking across the museum hall. You really can overdo that. But here, another effect seems to come into place.

Unless I've missed the memo, one of the objectives for sound mix had always been compatibility with smaller setups, be it 7.1, 5.1, 2.0 (headphones!) or a plain old 1.0 device, such as your phone (and be it only for a clip).

If "Atmos mix" means "only tolerable in an Atmos playback setup", some paradigm has changed. Industry practice was that mixers always checked the fold-down(s).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ebab

I remember that phrase always had had a bit of emphasis by way of echo. "Super echoey" (and I trust your judgement) sounds worrisome to me though, as are other notions of over-emphasis on sound effects (like the, admittedly, important rain, which still should not dominate a scene).

I remember the restauration of "Vertigo" that had just too much emphasis on the new foley work, with every last rustle of a newspaper startling you, and way too much spatial definition on every step from Miss Novak's heels walking across the museum hall. You really can overdo that. But here, another effect seems to come into place.

Unless I've missed the memo, one of the objectives for sound mix had always been compatibility with smaller setups, be it 7.1, 5.1, 2.0 (headphones!) or a plain old 1.0 device, such as your phone (and be it only for a clip).

If "Atmos mix" means "only tolerable in an Atmos playback setup", some paradigm has changed. Industry practice was that mixers always checked the fold-down(s).

Yes, usually this is the case, that the downmix should fold down properly. Dolby's lossless formats are actually built around this concept, that TrueHD 7.1 consists of a 2.0 stereo original, 3.1 bolt-on to make a full 5.1 track, and another 2.0 bolt-on on top of that to create a full 7.1 soundtrack. This track is used as the 'bed' of Dolby Atmos, with the relevant object-based metadata from the Atmos mix riding atop the 7.1 bitstream.

But while this is a wonderful system in practice it's rare to find a TrueHD-enabled AVR setup that's less than 5.1 these days, and most TVs and cheaper soundbar options don't decode TrueHD at all so when the player gets the EDID back from the latter kinds of equipment it defaults to the 640Kb/s Dolby Digital 5.1 embed so you're at the mercy of a completely separate mix and not the TrueHD fold down.

[Laserdisk]

I'm hearing what you are hearing and I have 5.1.2 atmos

[Geoff D]

Sure, someone else on AVF with Atmos (no idea what config) also noted that the rears were way too loud and the dialogue too quiet.

But I watched the 4K again last night and made a few tweaks to the audio. I listened to the 7.1 DTHD at 9dB below my normal volume level and boosted the dialogue by 4dB (speakers were all level matched prior to this) and it sounded SOOOOOO much better belanced. I mean, the new effects are still the new effects (dat opening scene ) but a lot of the things I've moaned about as being way too loud (rain, thunder, fan blades) were now just right and didn't drastically dominate the sound field at the expense of the dialogue. I still got some kick-ass bass, lovely music and terrific surround sound effects (even in 7.1 the Police spinner that lifts off in the "arresting you, that's what I'm doing" scene seems to actually rise away above my head) and the whole thing sounded so much better integrated, for want of a better word.