Fantasia / Fantasia 2000 (1940-1999) (Special Edition)

[Akibiyori]

Originally Posted by Bandit Tajomaru

Funny how these people that are offered by a Black cartoon character don't have a problem letting their kids watch rap videos and Family Guy which contain far worse ethnic stereotypes.

"These people" don't really exist, they're just a phenomenon imagined by people who spend too much time on and put too much stock in the internet world with its amplified commentary and opinions so they can feel important and true by complaining about "SJWs" (when this rears its head, it's a sure sign to disregard that poster's intelligence) and today's "PC" Hell, all while pointing out the existence of Family Guy, which wouldn't have existed in those entirely theoretical, ignoring history, supposedly less "PC" times (there has always, always been political correctness - for example, just look at how old Hollywood spent decades tailoring their films to avoid offending Southern sensibilities, which was a far more damaging culture than anything we have today .)

Anyway, I'd prefer these films to remain untouched but Disney made their choice and are sticking to it. There are countless things out there more important to worry about.

[Ernest Rister]

It's never going to happen. Want to see it? Go to YouTube. Move on.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by Bandit Tajomaru

Funny how these people that are offered by a Black cartoon character don't have a problem letting their kids watch rap videos and Family Guy which contain far worse ethnic stereotypes.

True, today's rap "music" have far more offensive imagery against Whites than old Disney cartoons ever had against Blacks or other races.

[Bandit Tajomaru]

Originally Posted by Class316

True, today's rap "music" have far more offensive imagery against Whites than old Disney cartoons ever had against Blacks or other races.

Hell, rap has more offensive imagery against Blacks than it does against any other race.

[Treadwell]

Originally Posted by Vidya

It's incomplete, yes? Then it isn't uncut.

Cut means footage removed, resulting in a jump, a shorter running time. From the days when physical film was literally cut with a razor blade. One frame or a thousand frames, cut out, discarded, and the remaining two ends then reattached to eliminate the gap.

Footage was not removed. Therefore uncut. Footage was messed with. Not removed.

But I agree with Class316 that "original" is not the best of terms either.

Semantics aside, we all agree that there were alterations that the cover copy is less than forthright about.

[ditcin]

The characters that have been cut are black centaurs with zebra bodies. Really, what's the problem. With people born here in the U.S. for generations still linking themselves to Africa it's ridiculous.
The other reason some of those shots have been cut is that in on shot those same characters are shown attending to "white" woman centaurs. They appear to be servant-like.
Still don't see the problem. The centaurs have a very "roman-like" air and the real Romans did have slaves (both white & black).
So what. Really, must we re-write history to appease? These real-like things happened thousands of years ago. Meanwhile we're talking about an animated mythological segment.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Akibiyori

"These people" don't really exist, they're just a phenomenon imagined by people who spend too much time on and put too much stock in the internet world with its amplified commentary and opinions so they can feel important and true by complaining about "SJWs" (when this rears its head, it's a sure sign to disregard that poster's intelligence) and today's "PC" Hell, all while pointing out the existence of Family Guy, which wouldn't have existed in those entirely theoretical, ignoring history, supposedly less "PC" times (there has always, always been political correctness - for example, just look at how old Hollywood spent decades tailoring their films to avoid offending Southern sensibilities, which was a far more damaging culture than anything we have today .)

Anyway, I'd prefer these films to remain untouched but Disney made their choice and are sticking to it. There are countless things out there more important to worry about.

You hit the nail on the head. It frustrates me when people rail against the PC culture of today and lament that free speech is dying, as if the "old days" allowed complete freedom to say and do whatever you wanted.

As you point out, political correctness has always existed, it's just what is politically correct changes over time. When these racial caricatures were created and popular, they could get away with that because the culture was different, different societal norms (not always for the better, if you ask me). But while cartoons that mocked the appearance and intelligence of black people were accepted, interracial romance was controversial. That's kind of backwards, isn't it?

Additionally, you couldn't get away with graphic depictions of sex, violence or swearing. Homosexuality was not talked about, except sometimes in extremely vague, fleeting references. Late 20th century subcultures like punks, goths, etc. would probably have been beaten to death on the streets if they had existed and dressed like that openly several decades earlier. Basically, there was a lot less freedom of speech and expression, contrary to what some may think.

Now, as for censorship and all that, I generally think historical works of fiction/art should be preserved as originally created. But it's also up to the owner(s) of the work to do with it as they please, and if Disney want to edit one of their films and withhold another from release, then that's their right and I accept that. I can understand the frustration, I mean, it frustrated me that Lucas refused to release the original Star Wars films in their pre-special edition form (which I'm confident will change soon with Disney in charge), and it frustrates me that Michael Mann refuses to let anyone do anything with The Keep.

With something like this, if I were in Disney's position, I personally would probably make the new version the default and include the original, uncut version as a special feature. That way I'd think most should be pleased. Of course, some would complain that the original cut was included at all, and some would complain they had to click a button twice to access it, but I think that'd be an exceedingly small minority.

[Ernest Rister]

if I were in Disney's position, I personally would probably make the new version the default and include the original, uncut version as a special feature. That way I'd think most should be pleased.

I wouldn't. Giant unnecessary media/social media distraction, hurting the brand and present and future projects in modern society. "Most" don't even know about Sunflower, it's a trivial curio, hasn't been part of the various versions of the film in something like half a century. There's no upside in re-introducing it, it's pointless.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I wouldn't. Giant unnecessary media/social media distraction, hurting the brand and present and future projects in modern society. "Most" don't even know about Sunflower, it's a trivial curio, hasn't been part of the various versions of the film in something like half a century. There's no upside in re-introducing it, it's pointless.

And that's fair, I can understand that position too.

[OneWayFilms]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

And that's fair, I can understand that position too.

But leaving it as it is means THEY WIN! It's really more for the principal now. If people are offended by it, then let Disney offer TWO versions, the PC version and the UNCUT version.

Why not?

Other companies are offering the theatrical version AND an edited CLEANED up version of select films for people who don't want to hear offensive language or see nudity.

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by OneWayFilms

But leaving it as it is means THEY WIN! It's really more for the principal now. If people are offended by it, then let Disney offer TWO versions, the PC version and the UNCUT version.

Why not?

Other companies are offering the theatrical version AND an edited CLEANED up version of select films for people who don't want to hear offensive language or see nudity.

We can't even get Disney to give us uncensored Pecos Bill, which I'll take before Sunflower. At least the Pastoral isn't butchered to hell and back.

[Class316]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

We can't even get Disney to give us uncensored Pecos Bill, which I'll take before Sunflower. At least the Pastoral isn't butchered to hell and back.

But it does exist, on R2 DVD

[shinobipopcorn]

Originally Posted by Class316

But it does exist, on R2 DVD

And Sunflower exists with Uncle Remus on youtube. But I'd like something I can play on my TV in good quality. The PAL DVDs are iffy transfers (and I don't have a region free player).

[kidglov3s]

The last best chance would've been in the mid 00s, especially when they had the Treasures line running, before the rise of FB/Twitter/Tumblr. Even better than that would've been as a supplement in the LD box. There's no upside for doing it now, even tucked away on a DMC disc such that normally a forum like this would be the only kind of people to know about it. There are so many higher priorities in terms of Disney animation on video than Sunflower.

I do think it would be do-able for them to put together a package offering a choice between the redubbed cut and the 1990 cut with Deems Taylor though (the latter being accessible via a bonus menu/supplement disc), and for a better audio mix. This thread has me wanting to bust out the LD, I haven't watched Fantasia in a long time and never was all that into it. I'm curious to listen to it after reading about it in this thread.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by kidglov3s

I do think it would be do-able for them to put together a package offering a choice between the redubbed cut and the 1990 cut with Deems Taylor though (the latter being accessible via a bonus menu/supplement disc), and for a better audio mix.

That's kind of my feeling. As Ernest pointed out, there are so many alternate versions of this film, it would be next to impossible to present them all. But being based on the mid-40s "popular version," the 1990 cut, in essence, is the version most people saw throughout the 50 years prior to that (aside from the brief existence of the super-short RKO version and the Kostal re-recording version).

Seamlessly branching the 1990 cut with the current "Roadshow" version would be totally doable, I would think. And that would probably satisfy most fans of the film (provided the better audio option was offered).

BUT.... I doubt it'll happen

[Class316]

Originally Posted by shinobipopcorn

And Sunflower exists with Uncle Remus on youtube. But I'd like something I can play on my TV in good quality. The PAL DVDs are iffy transfers (and I don't have a region free player).

The PAL DVD is decent and official. At least Bill exists officially in post laserdisc media. More than one can say for Sunflower and SOTS

Sunflower and SOTS do exist in good quality via "alternate" means.

SOTS has the BBC HD version which looks good.

And Fantasia has this version out there (which IMO becomes the "perfect" release if you add Deems Taylor)

This was my attempt some years back at restoring the cut shots of Sunflower to Fantasia. The dual-layer DVD result as seen here incorporates those shots into the main film as taken from the original late-2000 DVD release. Full chapters, menus, bonus features, two audio commentaries and the end credits that were added for the earlier Laserdisc release are all included here. The main elements of the film -- the audio tracks and 99% of the video were -- if I'm recalling my work on this correctly -- NOT REENCODED OR COMPRESSED in any way shape or form... thus the dual layer nature of the beast. Fantasia is one of my favorite films of all time and I wanted to keep the quality as high as possible to provide myself with something I could watch on a regular basis without being pissed off at the censorship.

[oubukibun]

Can't believe this is available from Amazon.co.uk for $30. I honestly thought this would be one of the few Disney-wants I'd never get!

There were 15 copies left, I believe, after I ordered mine, if anyone else around these parts needs one at a relatively reasonable price!

[deto]

I ordered a copy off of eBay for $8 a few days ago. Just got it and was surprised to see it came shrink wrapped. Just redeemed my DMR for 250pts. I’m so excited. It was the only animated Disney film I was missing. Only thing missing was the slipcover.

[maniac89]

Will the upcoming Blu-ray and Digital HD releases of Fantasia use the same dark color scheme of the 2000 DVD?

[shinobipopcorn]

We literally have no information about it other than "it's on its way".