Ghost in the Shell 2 Innocence (US release from Bandai) is a BD-25 with Dolby Digital

[jd213]

http://www.fanboyreview.net/2008/12/...ly-lookreview/

Not a good sign, I'd like to support Bandai Entertainment's Blu-ray releases but not if they'll only have lossy audio.

Thankfully both the Japanese releases of Innocence have LPCM 7.1 and Dolby TrueHD (1st and 2nd release, respectively) and both have English subtitles. But I'll be pissed if they keep releasing Blu-rays without lossless audio.

[Afrobean]

It being on a single layer doesn't matter. It's still possible to pull off good quality on single layer.

Anyway, the lack of lossless might be a blow for audio freaks out there, but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. I also am not fond of the term "lossy", because for me, that implies that it's bad. Nothing on Blu-ray is BAD, it just might not be absolutely perfect. This is the same ideal people put on The Dark Knight's picture quality; sure, the PQ might not have been ideal, but that doesn't mean it's terrible either.

Frankly, I think people should be glad a movie like this one is getting an American release at all. Anime is pretty niche still. I still find it difficult to believe that Funimation is even selling enough copies of the Dragon Ball Z movies for it to be worth it, and I really don't think the One Piece or Fullmetal Alchemist movies that are coming will sell well either. It's great to see this stuff getting a release, but I don't think people should demand so much of it when it's probably not economically viable on its own as it is. Do you really think the anime subset overlaps with the blu-ray subset that much?

ps I think I'll be getting the US release on this thing; I don't mind a lower quality sound delivery when it's not going to bother me in the slightest, and I like having the choice of hearing the English dub if I feel like it. I'll typically prefer the original Japanese audio, but I don't like not having the choice. That, and I'd rather not have a bunch of cases with English titles and English descriptions, then a single anime BD among them looking out of place.

edit; oh and one more thing:

If you refuse to buy this on the grounds of the audio not being good enough for your tastes, the producer may see low sales and decide not to keep releasing anime titles. Do you want to indirectly contribute to anime titles not getting released as much here as they could be?

[aygie]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

It being on a single layer doesn't matter. It's still possible to pull off good quality on single layer.

Anyway, the lack of lossless might be a blow for audio freaks out there, but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. I also am not fond of the term "lossy", because for me, that implies that it's bad. Nothing on Blu-ray is BAD, it just might not be absolutely perfect. This is the same ideal people put on The Dark Knight's picture quality; sure, the PQ might not have been ideal, but that doesn't mean it's terrible either.

Frankly, I think people should be glad a movie like this one is getting an American release at all. Anime is pretty niche still. I still find it difficult to believe that Funimation is even selling enough copies of the Dragon Ball Z movies for it to be worth it, and I really don't think the One Piece or Fullmetal Alchemist movies that are coming will sell well either. It's great to see this stuff getting a release, but I don't think people should demand so much of it when it's probably not economically viable on its own as it is. Do you really think the anime subset overlaps with the blu-ray subset that much?

ps I think I'll be getting the US release on this thing; I don't mind a lower quality sound delivery when it's not going to bother me in the slightest, and I like having the choice of hearing the English dub if I feel like it. I'll typically prefer the original Japanese audio, but I don't like not having the choice. That, and I'd rather not have a bunch of cases with English titles and English descriptions, then a single anime BD among them looking out of place.

edit; oh and one more thing:

If you refuse to buy this on the grounds of the audio not being good enough for your tastes, the producer may see low sales and decide not to keep releasing anime titles. Do you want to indirectly contribute to anime titles not getting released as much here as they could be?

I think your post is a bunch of drivel. Not having High Definition audio is not acceptable.

imagine a studio releasing a BD which is only 720p, its still HD but you wouldn't buy it would you because it would below the best it could be.

I'm assuming you don't have surround sound, well there was a thread here the other day asking what biggest difference comparing DVDs to BDs was and you know what practically everyone said? Audio.

[Jeff Kleist]

I'll get confirmation on this, as the Bandai screeners take forever to get to me because they're on the slow boat and I'm on the East Coast

Disney did the Japanese release, so this will be a different encode anyway.

This was not done by the Honneamise division that did all of their other discs.

For the record, the specs I had were the same as the Disney disc, I just figured it's a co-production for the new one. The GoFish parts are simply because they inherited the GF master tapes

[jd213]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

If you refuse to buy this on the grounds of the audio not being good enough for your tastes, the producer may see low sales and decide not to keep releasing anime titles. Do you want to indirectly contribute to anime titles not getting released as much here as they could be?

I'm a professional translator and don't need subtitles, so I've purchased dozens of anime Blu-rays here in Japan in the past year, as well as the US releases of Freedom and the Gunbuster/Diebuster Gattai box set. And I already have the first Japanese release of Innocence, so I wouldn't be buying the US release even if it did have lossless. I'm doing more than my fair share of buying anime on Blu-ray, thank you very much. The US won't be getting as much as Japan anyways, there's simply too much of it even if the US market was twice as strong as it is right now.

[GGX]

Originally Posted by Aygie

I think your post is a bunch of drivel.

Agreed. I don't like to settle for "good enough". Especially when its obvious that we could of easily received a superior product.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by GGX

Agreed. I don't like to settle for "good enough". Especially when its obvious that we could of easily received a superior product.

And what if that higher quality would have needed a dual layer and the cost would be too high to produce? What if the production company couldn't afford to master it with that level of quality?

Is it better for something to not be released at all or be released with "good" quality? Yes, "perfect" would be better, but you're not going to get "perfect" by refusing "good".

USA is not Japan. They can't count on anime to sell titles like they can over there. They can't risk investing a lot of money into a product that even by generous estimations would be easily identified as "few".

Originally Posted by jd213

I'm a professional translator and don't need subtitles, so I've purchased dozens of anime Blu-rays here in Japan in the past year, as well as the US releases of Freedom and the Gunbuster/Diebuster Gattai box set. And I already have the first Japanese release of Innocence, so I wouldn't be buying the US release even if it did have lossless. I'm doing more than my fair share of buying anime on Blu-ray, thank you very much. The US won't be getting as much as Japan anyways, there's simply too much of it even if the US market was twice as strong as it is right now.

An American buying it on import from Japan doesn't translate to a sale on the American side. The point I was trying to make was that if they don't see sales in America, they won't put as much effort into producing here. If we prove there is demand for this stuff, we might be able to get more and better things, with better quality releases.

And if other companies look at Bandai and notice Bandai isn't selling enough copies of this film, they too will likely scale back commitments to the format (at least in the American corner of the world). I want these companies to be interested in the format, I want to encourage them to produce more. This is why I've bothered to buy up all of the Dragon Ball Z movies. I'm a fan of Dragon Ball Z, but I could easily do without the movies... they're not very good in all truth. I intend to buy any anime on BD that even comes close to looking interesting to me, because if no one buys the first-out-of-the-gate stuff, it could slow the chances for other, better things in the pipeline.

Refusing to buy because quality isn't ABSOLUTELY perfect is ridiculous. If everyone took that stance, the companies would stop producing ANYTHING. All of our collections would consist of the same dozen or so films that combine perfect picture quality with perfect sound and perfect extras. By not buying, you're not encouraging them to step up the quality; by refusing to buy, you're telling them that you do not want to own this movie and that the market interest isn't as high as they thought.

If you refuse to buy a movie on any grounds, they're just going to think you don't want to own the movie. They don't know "oh they just want higher quality, let's risk more money on the project when we already think it won't sell very well."

ps the comparison of:

720p:1080p
"lossy" audio:lossless audio

is a poor one. You may not like it, but basic surround is an established standard for audio on Blu-ray and is seen in more than a few titles. A better comparison would be 1080i:1080p. But even so, the logic still stands: you refuse to buy this, and you might as well be telling the company to stop producing anime for USA altogether; they will not read your motives into your actions, they will just assume no one wants this movie.

[MOONPHASE]

im happy that it now has the english dub in it but dolby digital? come on Bandai your previous releases had such great audio

[FourToedStatue]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I also am not fond of the term "lossy", because for me, that implies that it's bad.

Its called lossy because the process done to compress/decompress the audio causes loss in quality. This is a fact not a derogatory nickname. Lossless is exactly that: Losseless audio.

We don't pay extra for lossless and it downgrades to lossy for people without the necessary receivers so why not include it on every title?

[GGX]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Is it better for something to not be released at all or be released with "good" quality?

I'd rather have nothing.

The studios need to put the work into proper high-definition releases. That includes high bitrate video encodes and lossless audio. End of story.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by GGX

I'd rather have nothing.

The studios need to put the work into proper high-definition releases. That includes high bitrate video encodes and lossless audio. End of story.

I shudder to think what you did to watch movies in days before HD and BD. Did you refuse to buy DVDs too because the picture and audio was so "bad"?

[aygie]

Afrobean all i'm hearing from you you is that studios can release sub-standard BDs. Complete BS.

Your in the wrong place if you think you can justify Dolby Digital on BDs.

If your a studio releasing BDs you can afford to add lossless audio otherwise you shouldn't be in the Blu-ray game.

and why are you trying to make out that Bandai are a small company?!! They can afford to release quality discs they just choose not to to maximize profit not because "they would be in some sort of financial trouble".

[GGX]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I shudder to think what you did to watch movies in days before HD and BD. Did you refuse to buy DVDs too because the picture and audio was so "bad"?

DVD's were the best available at the time. Why should I settle for that now that Blu-ray is here?

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Aygie

and why are you trying to make out that Bandai are a small company?!! They can afford to release quality discs they just choose not to to maximize profit not because "they would be in some sort of financial trouble".

They are not Disney. They are not going to invest the same level of work, time, or money that Disney is. Wanting perfection or NOTHING out of EVERY company is unreasonable. I'm honestly impressed that they're willing to even take a chance putting this stuff on BD when the market penetration is so relatively small and their target audience isn't going to overlap with the BD crowd very much.

Originally Posted by GGX

DVD's were the best available at the time. Why should I settle for that now that Blu-ray is here?

I'm not suggesting you should go back to DVD, I'm just saying that just because something isn't THE BEST EVER quality, doesn't mean that it should be avoided like the plague.

Again, I'm sure you don't like it, but not all BDs are going to have perfect picture and sound. Some of them are going to have moderate to bad picture transfers and some of them are going to have lower quality audio. This level of audio quality may have been present in the days of DVD, but it is still present to this day on BD. This is not the same as a BD using a lower resolution picture; those resolutions are not used in main features on BD. Conversely, this sort of audio isn't uncommon in main features on BDs, particularly from companies who are not the "big boys".

But you're neglecting to acknowledge that by refusing to buy on these grounds, Bandai is just going to see it as a lack of demand for Ghost in the Shell on Blu-ray. They're not going to think "oh man sales are bad because we tried to save money and minimize risk, but sales would be THROUGH THE ROOF if we did a perfect transfer!"

Because it wouldn't make that drastic of a difference in income for them. But it would drastically increase production costs and increase the risk on an already risky endeavor.

I still don't see how it not being released at all is a better alternative than an average release rather than a perfect release. Is it better for us to stick to a DVD copy to watch this film, or is it better to have a less-than-ideal 1080p version?

[GGX]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I still don't see how it not being released at all is a better alternative than an average release rather than a perfect release. Is it better for us to stick to a DVD copy to watch this film, or is it better to have a less-than-ideal 1080p version?

I'm the consumer. I don't care what it costs the studio. If they can't put the effort into releasing a quality product then I'm not going to put the effort into buying it.

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by GGX

I'm the consumer. I don't care what it costs the studio. If they can't put the effort into releasing a quality product then I'm not going to put the effort into buying it.

I'm glad there are more people like me then, because if there weren't people like me willing to buy this niche stuff despite less than ideal quality, niche stuff wouldn't hardly get released at all.

[GGX]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

I'm glad there are more people like me then, because if there weren't people like me willing to buy this niche stuff despite less than ideal quality, niche stuff wouldn't hardly get released at all.

This isn't a matter of me not liking niche releases. The problem is Bandai (a major studio) taking short cuts. As evident by the Japanese release of Innocence.

[BScratcha]

No lossless = rental.

Never would I throw away money on a disc at this point without lossless audio.

[MarekM]

Originally Posted by GGX

This isn't a matter of me not liking niche releases. The problem is Bandai (a major studio) taking short cuts. As evident by the Japanese release of Innocence.

+1

Marek

[Mobe1969]

Oh jeez, the PAL region dub is slowed down as it was originally recorded for 25fps! What a classic!

I really wish the Japanese version was region free.