Why are Apple being so stubborn of not embracing BD?

[jmkoch]

Why pick on Apple?

Microsoft has not recognized Blu-Ray or AVCHD either. The Windows Media Player comes with no native ability to play the formats. One has to hunt down the codecs to get WMP to play m2ts or mts files. Windows Movie Maker and its DVD burning application do not support the input or the output. I suspect that the video box MS sells does not either. However, this is obviously to promote its own WMV format.

More bothersome is the companies which sell BD players, but at the same time give far more shelf space and attractive pricing for standard DVD players that "upscale to 1080p" and often come bundled with 5-channel sound systems at a bargain price. Worse, the advertising boasts them as "the ideal player for your HDTV." This is self-defeating. It confuses customers, who will be all the less likely to buy a real BD player later.

[neckedness]

Apple hates other companies. They think they all that. They will not join forces. They like to compete with other company's technology. They hate MS and they hate Sony. I don't like Apple much, the only product I have from them is the iPhone 3G and it doesn't perform well.

[Bobby Henderson]

This topic has been covered in other similar threads.

I make my living doing graphics work and know how critical that part of the computing market is to Apple. I believe it's a pretty foolish thing for Apple not to incorporate BD drives in their computer towers and notebooks.

The lack of out of the box BD support in Apple hardware and the lack of BD support in key Apple software just gives a major open opportunity for competitors like Adobe, Sony, Avid, Autodesk and many others to take market share.

Already the situation exists in that ALL enterprise level BD authoring (such as the Hollywood movies we buy on BD) is done on Windows-based PCs. Not Macs. A lot of high end digital intermediate and video finishing software is PC-based. I watched a featurette about the 4K restoration of The Godfather and noticed Windows-based machines doing the work.

The Mac platform has enjoyed the stereotype of being the kind of computer anyone has to use for any sort of graphical task -even though the truth is the applications are really what helps get the job done. Windows machines have made many inroads to all areas of graphics production and have grown to dominate in fields from 3D animation to outdoor advertising.

Apple dominated the high end of "prosumer" DVD authoring with its Final Cut Studio suite. The lack of BD support really puts Final Cut Studio, an otherwise great video creation suite, at a major disadvantage to competing suites from the likes of Adobe. Mac fans scoffed for years at Adobe and made fun of Premiere -even relegating it PC-only existence. But it came back to the Mac platform and Adobe has continually improved it while taking industry leading applications like Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects even farther forward. Adobe is even working with Red One Digital Cinema to make Production Studio capable of handling the unique 4K Red format.

Summing it up, rivals like Adobe are not standing still. In the meantime Apple just seems stuck like it's waiting on something. That's not good strategy for any technology company.

[brettallica]

Nice post and points, Bobby Henderson.

I've got be honest: I'm a bit surprised that Apple wasn't the first to jump on board with the Blu-ray technology in its computers. It seems like, at least historically, that they've been fairly cutting-edge with regard to making the leaps from one format to the next. Like with the ADC connection (which of course ultimately failed but lead the way to the DVI explosion), removing modems as standard, and simply bringing USB into the forefront as the preferred method of peripheral connection. They also were pretty big on the whole FireWire thing, which hasn't exactly taken off like USB, but still has been very beneficial.

I'm not an Apple fanboy, but I do appreciate what they offer (sometimes) and recognize that they can be quite revolutionary. It seems to me that Apple leads, and then other companies follow; and often improve upon that original Apple concept. The selection of touchscreen smartphones available now (only a year and a half after the iPhone dropped) is a good example of that.

I use both PC/Windows and Mac a ton -- probably somewhere around 50/50 -- and I can say that each has its pluses and minuses. I could really never say that "one is better than the other" as a blanket statement, possibly because I'm so familiar with each computer's strengths and weaknesses.

[ObiTrentKenobi]

Whaa?

nobody has read my other posts about this i suppose... well, then none of you know that

STEVE JOBS IS ON THE BLURAY DISC ASSOCIATION BOARD!!!!

So why don't MACS support bluray playback? Because MACS advance when Steve Jobs is ready to. He's been too busy for the past 3 or so years developing the iPhone. Steve Jobs and Apple only do 1 project at a time usually, unless they're just "redesigning" older products.

Microsoft has embraced bluray since it's inception (minus for the 360 because HD-DVD was a cheaper addon)

You can play blu's on windows, you can buy a bluray drive for windows... but you can't do any of this on a MAC. Because Microsoft has "allowed" for the development of bluray drivers on Windows... Apple/Jobs has not.

If Microsoft didn't like bluray, they could have not allowed 3rd party drivers to operate on their OS, just like Apple is doing. No developer can make software that works on a MAC and distribute it without the permission of Apple.

I love burning blu's on my Vista PC!

[jmkoch]

Originally Posted by ObiTrentKenobi

: Microsoft has embraced bluray since it's inception (minus for the 360 because HD-DVD was a cheaper addon) ...
You can play blu's on windows, you can buy a bluray drive for windows... '

Vista does NOT come bundled with software to burn or even play BDs. One must buy it and the codecs from other firms. The MS support site offers no codecs packs for AVCHD or its h.264 bretheren, which are integral to some of the HD modes compatible with BD. The WMP does a crummy job of playing the BD-AVC or BD-MPEG output of BD authoring software. The files play back with jerky motion on WMP, and one has to buy other products to get satisfactory results. The Windows Movie Maker does not support any high definition output other than WMV at rather low bitrates.

The biggest enemies of BD are some of the biggest names that supposedly support it: Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, and even Sony. Why do so many of them peddle ultra cheap ordinary DVD players bundled with bargain 5-channel sound systems. They have HDMI plugs and boasts that they "upscale to 1080p" and advertising that they are the "ideal player for your HDTV." Consumers may be legitimately confused, attracted by the low prices, and subsequently much less likely to buy a real BD player.

[The Gnome]

I was talking with some apple guys not all that long ago about this very thing. Primarily because i am looking at getting a new laptop.
Now this may be bullshit but here is what was explained to me. Apple/Mac is waiting to see where the download-able (MP3's & MP4's) is going. As more people download and that technology improves, They may embrace that prior to another format of media.
Like I said its what I was told. Thought I'd share that. IMO, it would behove them to at least offer it like PC's do. So you pay a little more. An option that may bring over those niche consumers.
Again, it's just what i was told and my opinion!

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by hendra

Why are Apple being so stubborn of not offering their laptops with Blu-ray drives? Do they really think that we would prefer to rent their HD movies for $4.99 at 720p while we can rent Blu-ray unlimited for $18.00 a month at full 1080p? If we just rent 4 Blu-ray discs a month, that would beat Apple's price hands down at higher quality. On top of that, I have to buy their Apple TV and an HDTV while with Netfllix, I can just use my laptop. Not to mention the time it takes to download 25GB of HD quality movies.

Steve Jobs says Blu-Ray licensing fees are to high to add Blu-ray to macs

[CptGreedle]

I am sure Apple will be adding Blu-ray soon enough. Right now it is only just starting to get the national/international attention it needs for companies to take notice. It also is still too expensive for the licensing fees, and the discs are over priced.
But when these things all settle, we will see more companies embracing Blu-ray. Mac is not always quick to adopt new technologies. There are still no macs with flash card readers built in.
So for now, with the iPhone's success, we will just have to wait and see when they decide to embrace BD. I am sure it will be within a year or so.

[dadkins]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Steve Jobs says Blu-Ray licensing fees are to high to add Blu-ray to macs

No offense, but that's a REALLY weak excuse!
Acer/Fujitsu/ASUS... a whole slew of manufacturers seem to be ok with the "fees" and have machines we can buy.
Apple should have been one of the first to include BD drives.

Steve wants to milk iTunes, plain and simple.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

I am sure Apple will be adding Blu-ray soon enough. Right now it is only just starting to get the national/international attention it needs for companies to take notice. It also is still too expensive for the licensing fees, and the discs are over priced. But when these things all settle, we will see more companies embracing Blu-ray. Mac is not always quick to adopt new technologies.

That may be fine and good on the consumer end of things. But it is a flat out terrible strategy for maintaining market share in professional niches of computing. Apple has to stay ahead of the curve rather than a Johnny come lately to even keep a footing at all in a certain market niche. Waiting may translate into not even being in the game at all when they finally want to play.

The professional use side of the computing industry is what drives development overall. The new technology and new "killer applications" make their names in that area. Look at Adobe Photoshop for instance. Regardless of the popularity of Photoshop it is still an application geared toward professional use by photographers, graphic artists and digital illustrators. Photoshop's first pieces of technology and code began as custom coded software for Industrial Light & Magic.

Apple has lost key professional creative computing markets. The limitations of the "classic" MacOS combined with Apple's refusal to use OpenGL is what allowed Windows-based PCs to win the professional 3D modeling and animation market. Linux may actually be the holder of 2nd place -especially in terms of render farm use.

Apple sells a lot of computers due to the image the Mac has of being easier to use. Nothing wrong with that. But professional users only care about the task at hand. They'll go with whatever platform supports the current best application and/or gives them the best options on hardware.

There's also a certain prestige to using the same kind of hardware and software the professionals use. Apple has got a lot of mileage out of that one in terms of selling computers for creative work.

Contrary to the belief of certain parties in the computing industry, physical media (like optical movie discs) is not going away any time soon. The situation with movie downloading has far too many compromises. Market research has also shown most people still prefer to have a physical copy of the movie. That means BD disc authoring is already important and will grow with importance.

[Sirandar]

What he politely left out was that Blu-ray is still a very unreliable medium.

Can any of you really say that you are 100% confident that the New Release Blu-ray you just paid 30$ for will play right out of the box.

I play my Blu-rays on my computer and I am not even 40% sure a new release Blu-ray will play. After a movie has been out for 6 months I have resonable confidence it will play and once a Blu-ray plays on my system, it always plays. Compare this to DVD, which I am close to 100% certain.

A number of users have 3 Blu-ray players on their PC just so they can have a chance to play New Releases.

Since a MAC is computer, Apple is very wise to stay out of the Blu-ray for the PC mess until it actually works on the PC.

Blu-ray is a great technology when it works .... but it doesn't because Blu-ray has failed as a standard .... there is too many changes and variations that are released upon the consumer which adds up to Disks That Won't Play.


Even hardware players have these issues and firmware updates are required.

[Chevypower]

Good point, Game Plan was out of sync on the BDP-S350s (but not on the PS3). I called Sony and the operator blamed it on the disc (Disney), and I called Disney and the operator was sure it was a firmware issue on the player - and he was correct, it works fine now. Even DVD had the syncing issues on the older technology.

[Canada]

They want downloads so you will have to pay them.

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by Sirandar

What he politely left out was that Blu-ray is still a very unreliable medium.

Can any of you really say that you are 100% confident that the New Release Blu-ray you just paid 30$ for will play right out of the box.

I play my Blu-rays on my computer and I am not even 40% sure a new release Blu-ray will play. After a movie has been out for 6 months I have resonable confidence it will play and once a Blu-ray plays on my system, it always plays. Compare this to DVD, which I am close to 100% certain.

A number of users have 3 Blu-ray players on their PC just so they can have a chance to play New Releases.

Since a MAC is computer, Apple is very wise to stay out of the Blu-ray for the PC mess until it actually works on the PC.

Blu-ray is a great technology when it works .... but it doesn't because Blu-ray has failed as a standard .... there is too many changes and variations that are released upon the consumer which adds up to Disks That Won't Play.


Even hardware players have these issues and firmware updates are required.

It's not failed at all. Bluray run on a VM Java Machine. Each manifacturer got their one VM Software and some are better than other at it. The Worst being Samsung (always been from the start). Never had a problem with my BD30, only when they started to do TrueHD, then that issue was fixed. My S350 played all my 100+ movies that i have too

[Chevypower]

Snow Leopard OSX is due out 2009 Q1, could this mean full Blu-ray integration in to Macs? (Not merely an add-on).

[HumanMedia]

Burning support has been available in the 3rd party Toast for a while (years). Blu-ray support was apparently supposed to be in the recently released MacOS 10.5.6.

Has anyone tried using a blu-ray drive with the latest OS?
Maybe it can mount discs now? Possibly burn to media and even play blu-ray movies with movieplayer?

If not maybe a special version of 10.5.6 will ship with the upcoming new imacs and bumped MacPros. Failing that I'd be shocked if it wasnt in Snow Leopard (if so maybe its waiting for Open CL?)

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by Sirandar

What he politely left out was that Blu-ray is still a very unreliable medium.

Can any of you really say that you are 100% confident that the New Release Blu-ray you just paid 30$ for will play right out of the box.

I play my Blu-rays on my computer and I am not even 40% sure a new release Blu-ray will play. After a movie has been out for 6 months I have resonable confidence it will play and once a Blu-ray plays on my system, it always plays. Compare this to DVD, which I am close to 100% certain.

A number of users have 3 Blu-ray players on their PC just so they can have a chance to play New Releases.

Since a MAC is computer, Apple is very wise to stay out of the Blu-ray for the PC mess until it actually works on the PC.

Blu-ray is a great technology when it works .... but it doesn't because Blu-ray has failed as a standard .... there is too many changes and variations that are released upon the consumer which adds up to Disks That Won't Play.


Even hardware players have these issues and firmware updates are required.

That is actually a separate issue from a good standard. What you are talking about is poor implementation and testing by some mfgs and software developers. They should be blamed not the standard. If Sony has been able to implement pretty much flawless support on a new and "difficult" and unfamiliar CPU like the Cell .. then what is the problem with MS and PC developers being able to get it working on a more familiar, easier to develop for and more widely understood architecture? If it was the standard at fault the PS3 would have the same problems.

[dadkins]

Originally Posted by ps3andlovinit

That is actually a separate issue from a good standard. What you are talking about is poor implementation and testing by some mfgs and software developers. They should be blamed not the standard. If Sony has been able to implement pretty much flawless support on a new and "difficult" and unfamiliar CPU like the Cell .. then what is the problem with MS and PC developers being able to get it working on a more familiar, easier to develop for and more widely understood architecture? If it was the standard at fault the PS3 would have the same problems.

I don't know... works quite well on both of my Windows machines.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by dadkins

I don't know... works quite well on both of my Windows machines.

Maybe you can help Sirander and his friends since he seems to be the one having the problems...not me.

Looks like the software and hardware mfgs you chose implemented the standard correctly and his didn't...which is what I originally said ..."What you are talking about is poor implementation and testing by some mfgs and software developers.".