Four High-end 1080P Flat Panels Face off HEAD TO HEAD(Feb 2009 Home Theater Magazine)
Four High-end 1080P Flat Panels Face off HEAD TO HEAD (Feb 2009 Home Theater Magazine)
Starting on page 36 of the February 2009 Home Theater magazine and ending on page 52 is a very in depth face off article called "Face off at the HDTV Corral". This very in depth article had a panel of several professional reviewers that rated the 4 different brands of high-end displays in terms of blacks, shadow detail, color, resolution, value, and the ultimate final score of "OVERALL PERFORMACE".
The 3 best HDTV's on the market when it comes to true 1080P/24 refresh rates is the following displays: 1. Pioneer PRO-111FD (The absolute best overall picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $5,000 2. Sony KDL-55XBR8 (The second best over all picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $7,000 3. Samsung LN55A950 (Third best over all picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $5,000
The interesting thing is that during the face off according to the Home Theater magazine review the Panasonic VIERA TH-50PZ800U Plasma had a noticeable flicker that was so annoying to watch at 48HZ that the Panasonic display needed to be placed in the 60HZ 3:2 pulldown mode. Even though the Panasonic 48HZ mode could not be used for the face off, overall the Panasonic had a slightly better picture quality compared to the Samsung LN55A950 in the area of shadow detail and resolution. The Samsung LN55A950 beat the Panasonic in terms of deeper black levels. The Panasonic TH-50PZ800U is only $2,500 which is half the cost of the $5,000 Samsung. That is an excellent value. It is too bad the important true 1080P/24 48HZ refresh rate feature could not be used on the Panasonic due to the annoying flicker issue. Hopefully the new coming soon 2009 Panasonic Plasma models will not have this flicker issue.
Official Home Theater Face off Results 1. Pioneer PRO-111FD (The absolute best overall picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $5,000 2. Sony KDL-55XBR8 (The second best over all picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $7,000 3. Panasonic TH-50PZ800U (Third best over all picture quality when the 60HZ refresh mode is used) $2,500 4. Samsung LN55A950 (Fourth best over all picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $5,000
The following are word for word quotes from the Feb 2009 Home Theater face off written by Thomas J. Norton
1. Pioneer PRO-111FD:
"The Pioneer's PureCinema control, in any setting, automatically converts 1080p/24 to a refresh rate of 72Hz by repeating (not interpolating) each frame three times. In addition, when set to Advance, it will convert any film-based source (except 1080p/60) to a display rate of 72Hz. (This will eliminate 3:2 pulldown in the process.)"
"The set's speakers attach to the sides and are removable if space is an issue. While the judges did not evaluate audio in this Face Off, my own experience with the sets tells me that the Pioneer offers the best sound by a considerable margin-if that is a relevant issue to the potential buyer."
"The panel praised the Pioneer for its smooth performance on motion. One judge noted that it produced the cleanest detail on horizontal motion, holding small details in the background and foreground."
"The Pioneer's deep black foundation also contributed to its fine sense of image depth. One judge commented that she could see textures in dimly lit details better than on the other sets, including the best facial textures in the dimly lit Russian stargate facility scenes in Stargate: Continuum."
"Apart from that , the Pioneer totally wowed the panel. Four out of five judges ranked it first overall. It also ranked first in all four of the rated performance categories."
"Most of all, it consistently handled all of the program material. Perhaps one judge summed it up best when he commented, "Fantastic. Every-thing looked awesome. The high-def stuff was the best I've ever seen."
"It's not surprising that the Pioneer came out on top for me. You simply can't trip it up. Every set here had flaws that could be drawn out consistently with certain types of program material, except the Pioneer. But other things in this Face Off were very surprising, for both good and ill. "(p.48)
2. Sony KDL-55XBR8:
"The Sony operates at a frame rate of 120 Hz. The set refreshes at 120 Hz with processing that adds new interpolated frames to the source's 24-Hz or 60-Hz frame rate. Sony calls this technology Motionflow 120Hz PRO, and many competing 120-Hz sets operate similarly. With this technology, motion lag-which has long been an issue with LCDs-can be reduced or eliminated. The only issue many of us have with this feature is that it can make film sources look like video. For this test, we shut the feature off. When Motionflow is off, the set simply repeats frames, instead of interpolating them, to reach its native 120-Hz frame rate."
"When the KDL-55XBR8 receives a 24-fps input, it keeps it as a direct multiple of 24 fps all the way to the screen. That is, the display repeats the original frame five times (or interpolates as needed) to bring it directly up to 120 Hz - a process called 5:5 pulldown."
"The panel found the Sony's deep black levels impressive."
"Another commented that the Sony was effective on the dark, difficult-to-reproduce scenes from Stargate: Continuum, which includes the star field at the beginning of chapter 1, the ship scenes in chapter 3, and the Russian stargate facility in chapter 21"
"But this praise was tempered by negative comments on the Sony's off-axis viewing limitations. One observer saw noticeable false contouring off axis on some material (which disappeared on axis). Others found that the black level performance (and color) deteriorated noticeably at small off-axis angles. Nevertheless, the Sony performed so well on axis that it tied with the Pioneer for the best overall black level."
"Even without its motion compensation engaged, the judges were not particularly bothered by motion lag, which is a persistent shortcoming of LCD displays (but one that is clearly far less noxious than it used to be). But the Sony's Archilles heel (which it shares with the Samsung and all other LCDs we've tested) is its off-axis performance. Even at relatively small angles, the image starts to wash out. Most viewers will likely notice this, either immediately or over time."
3. Panasonic TH-50PZ800U:
"All of the sets can display 1080p/24 as a direct multiple of 24 fps: 120fps in the Samsung and Sony, 72 fps in the Pioneer, and 48 fps in the Panasonic. I ran the Pioneer, Samsung, and Sony in this mode. But the Panasonic also offers the option to display a 24-fps source at either 1080p/48 or 1080p/60. I chose the latter. The Panasonic's peak-white output at 1080p/48 drops by 30 percent at 1080p/48, which limited its ability to match the other sets' peak brightness settings. The Panasonic also displayed noticeable flicker at the 48- fps setting" (p.38).
"The Panasonic will accept a 1080p/24 input and display it at 48 or 60 frames per second (for the latter, it adds 3:2 pulldown). As noted in the introduction, I chose the 60-fps setting for all the testing and viewing reported. In the 24-fps setting, there was noticeable flicker in bright images with large expanses of white or color (such as blue sky). This was particularly annoying when we viewed the Panasonic next to the other sets."
"The Panasonic earned mixed scores on black level and shadow detail."
"But a few scenes clearly showed the Panasonics black level limits: the opening scenes from Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World, the near-black screen in the opening Stargate Continuum, and the shipping-crate scene from chapter 6 of Madagascar."
"The Panasonic's video processing was a weak point. It was at its worst on the most difficult 1080i material (M:I:III in our tests), where it didn't respond properly to 3:2 pulldown. The set's color was a little warm for some of the judges, but it drew satisfactory scores on both color and detail."
"While two of the three other sets in the group outperformed it overall, the Panasonic held its own, particularly at its price. It received the highest score for value, which strongly suggests that the panel, overall, liked what it saw."
4. Samsung LN55A950:
"Like most new high-end LCD sets, the Samsung operates at a refresh rate of 120 Hz and includes two separate features designed to compensate for LCD motion lag: Auto Motion Plus 120Hz and LED Motion Plus. You can use them together or separately. "
"If Auto Motion Plus 120HZ is turned off, the display repeats source frames as needed to reach the set's 120-Hz native operating frequency. (For example, it will repeat each frame in a 24-Hz source five times to reach 120 Hz.) If you turn Auto Motion Plus 120Hz on (there are Low, Medium, and High settings), the display adds the same number of frames, it interpolates them from the preceding and following frames."
"LED Motion Plus cycles horizontal blocks of the LED backlights on and off, scrolling from top to bottom once every frame (120th of a second). Since this shuts off the backlighting while the LCD is changing states from on to off or back, you don't see the lag that occurs during this transition. But the technique also noticeably reduces brightness. As noted in the introduction, we left both of these features off for the test."
"While the Samsung's black level rating did manage to best the Panasonic for second place (Sony and Pioneer tied for first), its shadow detail ratings pulled it down. One panelist commented that even directly on axis, the dark scene from The Incredible Hulk looked too dark and lacked detail."
"Having viewed the Samsung extensively in the pre-test setup process and when I reviewed it for the December 2008 issue, I was surprised by how much criticism it drew for black level and shadow detail. As for absolute blacks, it was clearly at a disadvantage next to the Sony and Pioneer. But the measurement section shows it still turned in a very impressive pure black level of 0.003 ft-L, far better than most flat panels can manage. Some of the negative comments were clearly triggered by the mixed messages sent by this set's on - off axis performance."
It is too bad the important true 1080P/24 48HZ refresh rate feature could not be used
It's a shame that some people will read this and believe it, because 24p native reproduction is far from important.
Motion resolution, contrast, black levels, color accuracy; these are all far more important things to consider when looking for a new HDTV.
Oh well, to each their own. What is sad is that 99% of consumers will have no idea what 3:2 judder is because they've been watching it on DVD for almost 12 years, yet some people want to make it out as an important feature.
Four High-end 1080P Flat Panels Face off HEAD TO HEAD (Feb 2009 Home Theater Magazine)
Starting on page 36 of the February 2009 Home Theater magazine and ending on page 52 is a very in depth face off article called "Face off at the HDTV Corral". This very in depth article had a panel of several professional reviewers that rated the 4 different brands of high-end displays in terms of blacks, shadow detail, color, resolution, value, and the ultimate final score of "OVERALL PERFORMACE".
The 3 best HDTV's on the market when it comes to true 1080P/24 refresh rates is the following displays: 1. Pioneer PRO-111FD (The absolute best overall picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $5,000 2. Sony KDL-55XBR8 (The second best over all picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $7,000 3. Samsung LN55A950 (Third best over all picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $5,000
The interesting thing is that during the face off according to the Home Theater magazine review the Panasonic VIERA TH-50PZ800U Plasma had a noticeable flicker that was so annoying to watch at 48HZ that the Panasonic display needed to be placed in the 60HZ 3:2 pulldown mode. Even though the Panasonic 48HZ mode could not be used for the face off, overall the Panasonic had a slightly better picture quality compared to the Samsung LN55A950 in the area of shadow detail and resolution. The Samsung LN55A950 beat the Panasonic in terms of deeper black levels. The Panasonic TH-50PZ800U is only $2,500 which is half the cost of the $5,000 Samsung. That is an excellent value. It is too bad the important true 1080P/24 48HZ refresh rate feature could not be used on the Panasonic due to the annoying flicker issue. Hopefully the new coming soon 2009 Panasonic Plasma models will not have this flicker issue.
Official Home Theater Face off Results 1. Pioneer PRO-111FD (The absolute best overall picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $5,000 2. Sony KDL-55XBR8 (The second best over all picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $7,000 3. Panasonic TH-50PZ800U (Third best over all picture quality when the 60HZ refresh mode is used) $2,500 4. Samsung LN55A950 (Fourth best over all picture quality with true 1080P/24 feature) $5,000
The following are word for word quotes from the Feb 2009 Home Theater face off written by Thomas J. Norton
1. Pioneer PRO-111FD:
"The Pioneer's PureCinema control, in any setting, automatically converts 1080p/24 to a refresh rate of 72Hz by repeating (not interpolating) each frame three times. In addition, when set to Advance, it will convert any film-based source (except 1080p/60) to a display rate of 72Hz. (This will eliminate 3:2 pulldown in the process.)"
"The set's speakers attach to the sides and are removable if space is an issue. While the judges did not evaluate audio in this Face Off, my own experience with the sets tells me that the Pioneer offers the best sound by a considerable margin-if that is a relevant issue to the potential buyer."
"The panel praised the Pioneer for its smooth performance on motion. One judge noted that it produced the cleanest detail on horizontal motion, holding small details in the background and foreground."
"The Pioneer's deep black foundation also contributed to its fine sense of image depth. One judge commented that she could see textures in dimly lit details better than on the other sets, including the best facial textures in the dimly lit Russian stargate facility scenes in Stargate: Continuum."
"Apart from that , the Pioneer totally wowed the panel. Four out of five judges ranked it first overall. It also ranked first in all four of the rated performance categories."
"Most of all, it consistently handled all of the program material. Perhaps one judge summed it up best when he commented, "Fantastic. Every-thing looked awesome. The high-def stuff was the best I've ever seen."
"It's not surprising that the Pioneer came out on top for me. You simply can't trip it up. Every set here had flaws that could be drawn out consistently with certain types of program material, except the Pioneer. But other things in this Face Off were very surprising, for both good and ill. "(p.48)
2. Sony KDL-55XBR8:
"The Sony operates at a frame rate of 120 Hz. The set refreshes at 120 Hz with processing that adds new interpolated frames to the source's 24-Hz or 60-Hz frame rate. Sony calls this technology Motionflow 120Hz PRO, and many competing 120-Hz sets operate similarly. With this technology, motion lag-which has long been an issue with LCDs-can be reduced or eliminated. The only issue many of us have with this feature is that it can make film sources look like video. For this test, we shut the feature off. When Motionflow is off, the set simply repeats frames, instead of interpolating them, to reach its native 120-Hz frame rate."
"When the KDL-55XBR8 receives a 24-fps input, it keeps it as a direct multiple of 24 fps all the way to the screen. That is, the display repeats the original frame five times (or interpolates as needed) to bring it directly up to 120 Hz - a process called 5:5 pulldown."
"The panel found the Sony's deep black levels impressive."
"Another commented that the Sony was effective on the dark, difficult-to-reproduce scenes from Stargate: Continuum, which includes the star field at the beginning of chapter 1, the ship scenes in chapter 3, and the Russian stargate facility in chapter 21"
"But this praise was tempered by negative comments on the Sony's off-axis viewing limitations. One observer saw noticeable false contouring off axis on some material (which disappeared on axis). Others found that the black level performance (and color) deteriorated noticeably at small off-axis angles. Nevertheless, the Sony performed so well on axis that it tied with the Pioneer for the best overall black level."
"Even without its motion compensation engaged, the judges were not particularly bothered by motion lag, which is a persistent shortcoming of LCD displays (but one that is clearly far less noxious than it used to be). But the Sony's Archilles heel (which it shares with the Samsung and all other LCDs we've tested) is its off-axis performance. Even at relatively small angles, the image starts to wash out. Most viewers will likely notice this, either immediately or over time."
3. Panasonic TH-50PZ800U:
"All of the sets can display 1080p/24 as a direct multiple of 24 fps: 120fps in the Samsung and Sony, 72 fps in the Pioneer, and 48 fps in the Panasonic. I ran the Pioneer, Samsung, and Sony in this mode. But the Panasonic also offers the option to display a 24-fps source at either 1080p/48 or 1080p/60. I chose the latter. The Panasonic's peak-white output at 1080p/48 drops by 30 percent at 1080p/48, which limited its ability to match the other sets' peak brightness settings. The Panasonic also displayed noticeable flicker at the 48- fps setting" (p.38).
"The Panasonic will accept a 1080p/24 input and display it at 48 or 60 frames per second (for the latter, it adds 3:2 pulldown). As noted in the introduction, I chose the 60-fps setting for all the testing and viewing reported. In the 24-fps setting, there was noticeable flicker in bright images with large expanses of white or color (such as blue sky). This was particularly annoying when we viewed the Panasonic next to the other sets."
"The Panasonic earned mixed scores on black level and shadow detail."
"But a few scenes clearly showed the Panasonics black level limits: the opening scenes from Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World, the near-black screen in the opening Stargate Continuum, and the shipping-crate scene from chapter 6 of Madagascar."
"The Panasonic's video processing was a weak point. It was at its worst on the most difficult 1080i material (M:I:III in our tests), where it didn't respond properly to 3:2 pulldown. The set's color was a little warm for some of the judges, but it drew satisfactory scores on both color and detail."
"While two of the three other sets in the group outperformed it overall, the Panasonic held its own, particularly at its price. It received the highest score for value, which strongly suggests that the panel, overall, liked what it saw."
4. Samsung LN55A950:
"Like most new high-end LCD sets, the Samsung operates at a refresh rate of 120 Hz and includes two separate features designed to compensate for LCD motion lag: Auto Motion Plus 120Hz and LED Motion Plus. You can use them together or separately. "
"If Auto Motion Plus 120HZ is turned off, the display repeats source frames as needed to reach the set's 120-Hz native operating frequency. (For example, it will repeat each frame in a 24-Hz source five times to reach 120 Hz.) If you turn Auto Motion Plus 120Hz on (there are Low, Medium, and High settings), the display adds the same number of frames, it interpolates them from the preceding and following frames."
"LED Motion Plus cycles horizontal blocks of the LED backlights on and off, scrolling from top to bottom once every frame (120th of a second). Since this shuts off the backlighting while the LCD is changing states from on to off or back, you don't see the lag that occurs during this transition. But the technique also noticeably reduces brightness. As noted in the introduction, we left both of these features off for the test."
"While the Samsung's black level rating did manage to best the Panasonic for second place (Sony and Pioneer tied for first), its shadow detail ratings pulled it down. One panelist commented that even directly on axis, the dark scene from The Incredible Hulk looked too dark and lacked detail."
"Having viewed the Samsung extensively in the pre-test setup process and when I reviewed it for the December 2008 issue, I was surprised by how much criticism it drew for black level and shadow detail. As for absolute blacks, it was clearly at a disadvantage next to the Sony and Pioneer. But the measurement section shows it still turned in a very impressive pure black level of 0.003 ft-L, far better than most flat panels can manage. Some of the negative comments were clearly triggered by the mixed messages sent by this set's on - off axis performance."
I just got my Panny TH-50PZ800U Monday and have had no flicker issues.As I have said before I have the BD-30 and new Panny SA-BX500 receiver and they all work great together.Also I noticed that my TV was made in December so maybe if there ws a problem they corrected it on newer sets.
It seems they all had the same things to say about the two LCD's - that they suffered immediately in black levels from any position other than dead center.
Shane Buettner
Quote:
While I know LCD sets suffer when viewed off axis, I was shocked at how little I had to move off center to see image degradation. The Samsung and Sony were side by side, and one seat was lined up dead center where the two sets met. Sitting in that seat, four picture heights away, it was almost impossible to even compare the two LCDs head to head because the off-axis performance of each was so affected.
Barb Gonzalez
Quote:
One of the biggest observations of the day was how the LCD TVs lost picture quality when viewed from even slightly off axis. Both the Sony BRAVIA and the Samsung HDTVs lost black level when viewed from any seat that was not centered in front of the TV. Whether the media was standard-definition DVDs upscaled in the TV, 1080i resolution, or full 1080p HD, these TVs’ black levels diminished off axis. This caused all colors to fade out, appearing almost foggy. During the 1080p Blu-ray Disc playback of The Incredible Hulk, Edward Norton’s sweater looked gray-green when viewed off axis on the BRAVIA.
Michael J. Nelson
Quote:
The most striking thing was the difference in technologies. I could live with the LCD sets (which I rated the lowest) if I could install a device that locked my head at an angle directly in front of them. Off axis, these things frankly got a little weird. Color shifted, light levels flattened out, shadow detail decreased, children cried, dogs started barking, horses ate each other. If you live alone and never move your body, then these are the sets for you. (Or I suppose your family could take turns watching the same movie.)
Scott Wilkinson
Quote:
If money were no object, I’d go for the Pioneer. If my budget were tight, I’d get the Panasonic. The LCDs were both impressive, but neither one beat the Pioneer in my view. Also, off-axis performance is important to me—neither plasma had a problem there—and the Sony is just too expensive.
Love love love thats all I have to say to my 111FD
I have to agree. I want to see a shoot out with the G10 & or V model. That should knock the XBR8 from 2nd place. Kuro is still the top dog , & the funny thing is that their "OLD",well in the HDTV world they are. I hope 'kuro' comes back some day...
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Four High-end 1080P Flat Panels Face off HEAD TO HEAD(Feb 2009 Home Theater Magazine)
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