The Matrix 4K UHD (1999)

[HeavyHitter]

Film is an art at the end of the day. Aside from technical arguments, film grain, love it or hate it, has been part of that art which is why MANY digitally filmed movies have had grain added depending on the filmmaker's intent. We even still see occasional black and white movies for artistic reasons and 'look'. (Though I have noticed a lot of grain haters love colorizing black and white too or like cropping aspect ratios to 'fill da screen'). The notion that hiss in audio is the same as grain goes to show the lack of understanding exists out there as well as the lack of respect for film. When I sometimes read the "everything I watch should be like looking through a window like in real life" argument is way off base. Last time I checked, I didn't see Darth Vader, Hobbits, or dinosaurs out my window. Films are not necessarily supposed to be exact depictions of reality, but again, it comes down to intent of the filmmaker.

Now I do agree grain can be over-accentuated based on an improper calibration. Think 'vivid-mode' like settings that so many people use.
Excessive contrast setting, sharpness, and other processing settings can factor into all of this.

With all that said, I have yet to see a pleasing "grain-free" processed analog film. It never looks right. T2 on UHD BD is a perfect example. However, a heavy grain analog film does look far more right (Ghostbusters).

Regarding The Matrix, I thought the grain looked great on UHD BD as did virtually all aspects for that matter.

[Alister_M]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Now I do agree grain can be over-accentuated based on an improper calibration. Think 'vivid-mode' like settings that so many people use.
Excessive contrast setting, sharpness, and other processing settings can factor into all of this.

This is absolutely correct. I've been playing around with the HDR processing on my TV and watching BDs in HDR-10 mode severely accentuates grain and digital noise, especially in the background.

[LordoftheRings]

It's a beauty. Give us some more like that Warner and I might buy less 3D BR flicks from overseas.

But I sure have way more 3D Blus than 4K ones.

[benji888578]

FYI: bullmoose has this available in stock for 31.97, it shows 2 of 12 stores out of stock, so, going to be out soon.

also: never bought from them, but, familyvideo also says they have it in stock, 34.99.

>What's up with this title, why is WBshop, amazon, best buy (BB doesn't even have a listing anymore), out of stock, 1-2 months? Target says pre-order with no date? ??? Is there a production problem or is there a problem with the discs they've made, so they have to fix???

[LordoftheRings]

Everybody, atmos, shop online now; they don't have to leave their couch, they don't have to pause the movie, they don't have to stop eating their nachos, drink their coke, and they don't have to drive, which costs money for gas. It's much cheaper to shop online, plus when you go out to the Best Buy store, or any other store, you always end up buying more junk food too.

Online is the way to go; you don't have to take a shower before going to town, you don't have to change clothes from your pyjamas, you don't have to walk to your car, to get out, to walk to the store...brief you don't have to do anything physically too demanding...no exercise.
With all the money you save online you have better chance @ maintaining your heart and brain stable and steady.

It pays off to shop online, there is nothing else to do than get your movies @ home directly (front door) and inside the player's disc tray. Press play and voila!

[Agent Kay]

All tv's have settings, whack the slider up full and we have the best of both worlds

[LordoftheRings]

In my Trinitron tube TV it's called the SOS picture mode (Soap Opera Static). ...Same as DNR (Dolby Noise Reduction). BPL, is that a high-end 4K UHD TV brand, from USA or Korea?

You have a good sense of humor Mr. Man in black googles, agent K.

Are you also Dolby Vision upgraded, updated, rejuvenated?
Did you get the official confirmation, this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCcd...ature=youtu.be

[solid12345]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

All tv's have settings, whack the slider up full and we have the best of both worlds

This is why I think there is no excuse for a grain-free disc nowadays, I can practically eliminate most grain with my settings in my Sony TV, give me the grain and let me decide how I want to watch it. It's easier to remove detail than to inject it.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by nick4amber

The problem of this debate is ya'll are being tribal. Everyone picks a "side"... This isn't a debate, though. This is an incredible ever-changing and complex set of variables. You should be flagwaving the literal middle, as then everyone can get on board.

Is isn't a case of "grainy as balls" or "smudged to shit". What a hideous dichotomy. The only way you say that is gross outliers like some have noted on the grain side, and T2 for the DNR side. Neither are where these tools have shon...

The middle is where the film grain veneer would still be noted present, but the DNR signature of smoothness would not be OBVIOUS. That is really the sweet spot. And btw, I would venture most titles, even from Sony, are in this range. You have to be really selective to point out overly DNR and overly grain-fest titles. And user settings are determining whether people see the unobtrusive grain left in there as swarms of ants or not. User preference for TV settings is very much a part of this. Not just the studios and what they do...

In short, I think the studios are doing a 75% good job. That's a good strike rate when there ain't no "standards" on this shit with PQ/artistic direction.

I've literally just advocated for the middle ground! But I keep returning to there only being one extreme or the other because that's pretty much what's happening at the moment, at least to my eyes anyway. Grain appears to be either left untouched or processed up the wazoo and I would absolutely include Batman Begins and Grease along with T2 in the latter category, with stuff like Gump and Jurassic Parks 1 and 3 lurking somewhere underneath where they're acceptable to a point but have still been blatantly processed totally unnecessarily.

The reason why DNR has become such a burning issue isn't just because of settings and whatever, it's because a year ago those titles didn't exist and we were in a state of blissful nirvana but now the party's over and certain studios really have returned to their bad old ways. It boggles my mind that Universal treated Mummy 1&2 far better than the Jurassic Parks mentioned above and that Paramount put together a far more filmic rendition of ****ing Tomb Raider in 4K than they did Grease!

Yes, the studios are still doing a good job overall in terms of sheer numbers but bear in mind that they rarely fudge with DI-based material whereas it seems to be open season on film-finished product, and the former is still by far the most populous on UHD disc. As they're delving deeper into their catalogues they're having to transfer more film-finished stuff which is why the amount of afflicted titles has turned from the barest trickle into a steady drip, and although 75% is still pretty good that percentage was a lot higher a year ago IMO. I don't like those odds where there's a 1 in 4 chance that what I'm buying is going to be smacked with crude DNR, rather than a loving caress of "grain management" applied with the right tools which I would have no objection to. But that takes longer, that takes more money, that takes people with enough taste to recognise that film still looking like film is the ultimate goal.

[Agent Kay]

Is the same as it always was.
The less popular the less "effort" the more popular the more work they do.

[Geoff D]

Aye. It looks like some things just won't change.

[fighthefutureofhd]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[tyrok]

Originally Posted by benji888578

FYI: bullmoose has this available in stock for 31.97, it shows 2 of 12 stores out of stock, so, going to be out soon.

also: never bought from them, but, familyvideo also says they have it in stock, 34.99.

>What's up with this title, why is WBshop, amazon, best buy (BB doesn't even have a listing anymore), out of stock, 1-2 months? Target says pre-order with no date? ??? Is there a production problem or is there a problem with the discs they've made, so they have to fix???

The simple answer is Warner doesn't care about catalog. They don't seem to make a lot of copies until there is proof of demand. If any other studio had The Matrix in their back pocket they would have flooded stores with stock and sold a bunch at $20. Instead they only send Best Buy 2-3 copies a week late and then continue to drop the price with no stock to buy. Kinda defeats the point of putting it out in May just in time for Father's Day, right?

[jh901]

Will there be more inventory coming?

I keep trying to find out who's on the inside at Warner home video. There was a post way back that mentioned someone on another site. Lord forbid we attract anyone who can actually do something.

[tyrok]

Oh they will make more. It just takes time for them to get and distribute them. The same thing happened with Blade Runner and you can probably bet on it happening again with 2001: A Space Odyssey.

[Rocklandsboy]

Originally Posted by jh901

Will there be more inventory coming?

I keep trying to find out who's on the inside at Warner home video. There was a post way back that mentioned someone on another site. Lord forbid we attract anyone who can actually do something.

I wouldn't mind finding out too. There's a growing list of things that Warner Home Video needs to sort out.

[Bourne1886]

Originally Posted by tyrok

The simple answer is Warner doesn't care about catalog. They don't seem to make a lot of copies until there is proof of demand. If any other studio had The Matrix in their back pocket they would have flooded stores with stock and sold a bunch at $20. Instead they only send Best Buy 2-3 copies a week late and then continue to drop the price with no stock to buy. Kinda defeats the point of putting it out in May just in time for Father's Day, right?

We never had that issue in the U.K., Matrix was easy to get hold of here, why was USA 🇺🇸 different?

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by Bourne1886

We never had that issue in the U.K., Matrix was easy to get hold of here, why was USA 🇺🇸 different?

It's probably a little simpler in the UK. Our relatively tiny population plus an almost complete lack of brick and mortar stores selling physical media (aside from HMV/Fopp). Studios really just have to supply the handful of online retailers and the job's done.

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by tyrok

The simple answer is Warner doesn't care about catalog. They don't seem to make a lot of copies until there is proof of demand. If any other studio had The Matrix in their back pocket they would have flooded stores with stock and sold a bunch at $20. Instead they only send Best Buy 2-3 copies a week late and then continue to drop the price with no stock to buy. Kinda defeats the point of putting it out in May just in time for Father's Day, right?

I think people are vastly overestimating the reach of this disc's influence. We also only care about it because it turned out fantastic. Everyone I have mentioned 'The Matrix' to so far gives an "are you kidding?" type of response or "I had to look twice at the pile of movies when I thought you were suggesting we watch The Matrix". The $9.99 collection of three movies on blu-ray is also sitting right over there on the next shelf at Best Buy. 9 out of 10 people that are actively at the store buying movies don't even care about this version of The Matrix. "Why would I buy that when I can have all three of them for ten bucks?"

The market for this kind of thing is insanely smaller than many people on here might think.

I'm not arguing with that the stock on this title was severely under-supplied. It was. But WB wasn't really wrong in their assumptions with their supply management either.

[fighthefutureofhd]

Smaller than Kate Moss' waistline.